Trials of Finding New Job

Trials of Finding New Job

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Discussion

InitialDave

5,054 posts

63 months

Friday 7th September 2018
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Regarding people not turning up for interviews etc, I read an article/editorial recently that summed this up as recruiters as a whole having brought it on themselves - so many people are so utterly terrible at communicating feedback etc and generally ghosting applicants, that they've trained those looking for jobs to just take the same approach.

It's probably not 'right' or especially professional, but pretty understandable.

Moonhawk

10,713 posts

163 months

Friday 7th September 2018
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I have also been job hunting lately.

I was contracting but started applying for permanent roles.

For a number of roles I applied for, I was told my application was being taken forward, but then never heard anything again despite chasing. Not even a "sorry but we don't think you are suitable for this particular role". Fast forward a few months and I see the same role re-advertised, apply again and i'm again told my application is being taken forward - and then it all goes quiet again.

I eventually interviewed for a role earlier in the year, was told the budget for the role was all in place and approved. I was made an offer which I accepted. I advised the company I was contracting for that I would not be taking the extension they had offered - only for the permanent role to be pulled from under me a few days later because apparently the new company decided to impose a 'job freeze' due to a budget review. No real explanation, no feedback on the interview, not even a "sorry for putting you in a bad position" - nothing!

I interviewed for another company at the beginning of August. Had a second round interview a few weeks back. I was told they would come to a final decision in a couple of weeks. I was then told that a final decision was imminent and would be made by yesterday afternoon. That time came and went. I received an email this morning and i'm now being told that although I am still being considered for the role (and by the sounds of it - I might be the front runner) they can't make a decision on making an offer and can't give me any timescale on when a decision might be made!

From a candidate perspective - recruitment is extremely slow and frustrating and you often aren't treated with very much respect. I'm not surprised some candidates are starting to give recruiters a dose of their own medicine.

Moonhawk

10,713 posts

163 months

Friday 7th September 2018
quotequote all
InitialDave said:
Regarding people not turning up for interviews etc, I read an article/editorial recently that summed this up as recruiters as a whole having brought it on themselves - so many people are so utterly terrible at communicating feedback etc and generally ghosting applicants, that they've trained those looking for jobs to just take the same approach.

It's probably not 'right' or especially professional, but pretty understandable.
Yep, I read something along those lines on Linkedin a few weeks ago - and it was bang on point.

Recruiters mostly have themselves to blame for the current situation.

MYOB

2,595 posts

82 months

Friday 7th September 2018
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Another one here who is finding it impossible! I took a career break a few years ago and I have a disability that limits my options.

Been looking 9 months so far. I had an interview for a great energy sector role recently and left thinking positive thoughts but it went to an internal applicant. I imagine a lot of companies have to prioritise internal candidates.

xjay1337

12,312 posts

62 months

Friday 7th September 2018
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OP

Not sure if you are doing this but are you following up say a week afterwards?

I've been jumping around jobs the last 2-3 years some due to redundancy and others due to money.

I'm now in a good position with a decent company and a salary I am happy at.

I've probably had 4 jobs in the last 2 years and each one I was able to get a response back that was positive and land the job, but that being said I did have to chase a couple of times to get a reply.

Are you doing that?

If not you should be - it shows you are keen for the role. If you just leave it for 8 weeks and hope they call you then you may be disappointed ....

ToothbrushMan

Original Poster:

1,610 posts

69 months

Friday 7th September 2018
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xjay1337 said:
OP

Not sure if you are doing this but are you following up say a week afterwards?

I've been jumping around jobs the last 2-3 years some due to redundancy and others due to money.

I'm now in a good position with a decent company and a salary I am happy at.

I've probably had 4 jobs in the last 2 years and each one I was able to get a response back that was positive and land the job, but that being said I did have to chase a couple of times to get a reply.

Are you doing that?

If not you should be - it shows you are keen for the role. If you just leave it for 8 weeks and hope they call you then you may be disappointed ....
how have you handled the interview question about why you seem to be moving around a lot? were they temp jobs only?

ive had 3 runs at companies of between 3 to 4 years at each and at one interview I was basically accused of being a bit of a job hopper! incredible !

mark beavan

56 posts

86 months

Friday 7th September 2018
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Having spent the four months looking for a new job, which I have now been successful at, I've drawn a couple of conclusions;

The recruitment industry is the same as any other, there are some good people in it, there are some useless people in it and there are some right dodgy ones too. Do your research and choose a couple of good experienced people to work with who will go out and network for you. My experience has been that smaller agencies with experienced staff are a better bet than the bigger ones. Also choose agencies which specialise in your industry.

Post your CV on the well known job boards and websites, many of the interviews I have had have originated with a phone call from an agency who said "I've just seen your CV on....and I have a position which may interest you" as opposed to the jobs I have applied for on line.

People lie. I've had companies say to me " We like to take people from outside our industry as we don't want people coming with preconceived ideas etc" and then lost out after the final interview to find they have employed someone else "because they had more industry experience". I've had people say in interviews "I'm looking for someone with experience who will go and do the job without me having to tell them what to do all the time" and then be told I was unsuccessful in my application as it was felt I was "too experienced for the role". I have even gone through a four stage selection process to be fed a load of tripe, ignored (along with the retained agency whose calls and emails went unanswered also) before being told that the company had decided not to proceed with the role. The really annoying thing is that for each of these roles, I have invested time preparing and money travelling to be fed a load of b******s.

As regards ageism, it is alive and well. I have had prospective employers and agencies try all sorts of ways to find out my age before meeting me, asking for a copy of my driving licence, asking me to update my CV to include my entire work history right back to when I left school, with dates, all sorts. The trick is to find a company which values experience and stability over youth.

My advice to anyone looking for a new job would be to be selective in what you apply for, make sure your profile fits the vacancy. With the best will in the world, I was never going to get a job selling cloud based business solutions to the digital media industry, because I've spent the last fifteen years selling tools to the construction industry.

Good Luck to the OP.




Moonhawk

10,713 posts

163 months

Friday 7th September 2018
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ToothbrushMan said:
ive had 3 runs at companies of between 3 to 4 years at each and at one interview I was basically accused of being a bit of a job hopper! incredible !
3-4 years is a reasonable time at one company, especially in the private sector. People move around (or are made redundant) a lot more these days.

In the last 15 years I have had 11 different roles, not counting promotions within the same company (6 permanent and 5 contract) - so my average time in a role is less than 18 months. Three of those permanent roles were lost due to redundancy (one after only 3 weeks when the company was liquidated).

xjay1337

12,312 posts

62 months

Friday 7th September 2018
quotequote all
ToothbrushMan said:
xjay1337 said:
OP

Not sure if you are doing this but are you following up say a week afterwards?

I've been jumping around jobs the last 2-3 years some due to redundancy and others due to money.

I'm now in a good position with a decent company and a salary I am happy at.

I've probably had 4 jobs in the last 2 years and each one I was able to get a response back that was positive and land the job, but that being said I did have to chase a couple of times to get a reply.

Are you doing that?

If not you should be - it shows you are keen for the role. If you just leave it for 8 weeks and hope they call you then you may be disappointed ....
how have you handled the interview question about why you seem to be moving around a lot? were they temp jobs only?

ive had 3 runs at companies of between 3 to 4 years at each and at one interview I was basically accused of being a bit of a job hopper! incredible !
I was honest

1) first job I was made redundant from (£45k p/a)
2) found another job. but a couple months into the role they sprung the need for lots of international travel and time away from home so left this job and no ability to work from home (only £32k pa)
3) new job found was happy there but salary was still low (about £38k) but contacted by a former colleague and friend with an opening at the company he works at for a big increase in pay and ability to do more (IE not just focus on one product line but several and be involved more with business decisions)
4) that job is the one I am currently in now on £50k pa and I can live comfortably and able to buy a house finally.



Ultimately I never start at a job with the intention for it to be anything other than long term and that is a key thing for me I want security.
I have had a couple of calls at the company I work at now asking if I am interested in contracting or other positions but I am happy with where I am - there are a lot of different things going on in our company and it seems a good place, I am given total flexibility and trust, work with a small team of 4 , 3 of whom I've worked with before for a long time.

I don't anticipate moving from this job I have now unless I have to.

Best of luck.

Ruskie

2,874 posts

144 months

Saturday 8th September 2018
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My biggest gripe with looking at jobs is not publishing a salary. Drives me insane.

rog007

5,106 posts

168 months

Saturday 8th September 2018
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MYOB said:
I imagine a lot of companies have to prioritise internal candidates.
My experience is to the contrary.

Organisations in the main really do want the best overall candidate, whether they are the internal or external candidate.

There is however published theory that if an organisation is doing well, then hire from within. If it’s not doing so well, then hire without.

The view being that if you’re doing well, then the staff you already have are contributing to that. Equally, if you’re not doing so well, then it’s time to replace some staff with fresh external talent.

This is a key area of your due diligence on the organisation you’re looking to join; find out how they’re performing as then you can manage your approach and expectations.

MitchT

12,584 posts

153 months

Saturday 8th September 2018
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Ruskie said:
My biggest gripe with looking at jobs is not publishing a salary. Drives me insane.
This. A million times!

Employers always have an exhaustive list of what they want you to bring to the table but don't feel any obligation to indicate what they're bringing to the table. Makes my piss boil. Perhaps I should apply by sending a list of my living costs but give no indication that I have the prerequisite skills for the role.

Then there's adverts which say "competitive" salary which is fking meaningless.

Then there's the ones in the creative sector which don't indicate salary but give a long list of so-called perks... the office pool table, the office dog, the jar of free sweets on the desk in the corner by the water cooler, "your very own MacBook Pro" - 'cause now the computer I need to do my job is now apparently a perk!!!... "friday afternoon drinks" - 'cause there's no better way to start the weekend than driving home drunk... the annual company away day... etc.

Seriously, just pay me a decent wage and give me a decent pension. What matters to me is being able to cover the cost of food, shelter, utility bills and, god forgive my greed, having enough left to go on the occasional holiday. I don't give a st about so called perks!

Anyway, I've created a version of my CV with my salary expectations on it and that's the one I send if a role doesn't have a salary indicated.

ToothbrushMan

Original Poster:

1,610 posts

69 months

Saturday 8th September 2018
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Ruskie said:
My biggest gripe with looking at jobs is not publishing a salary. Drives me insane.
this ^

yet many online applications require you to disclose your last or current salary. i dont like this question as it smacks of the employer wanting to gauge how low they can get the ideal applicant in for. if I can I try to get around the question onine or put "prefer not to say" if the option exists which is rare.

in an interview I state that if i receive an offer then at that point I happy to disclose what I used to earn but I prefer not to give a figure because you never know if they think a) they cant afford you or you will not accept a low ball offer so they wont even consider you or b) you was earning a lot less than the position being applied for so maybe you wasnt "all that" and youve under sold yourself.

I dont know....theres so many crevices you can fall into trying to cover every scenario.

I do find Linkedin good at getting me right in front of key people (at least in terms of messaging direct) and you just dont get this far when applying online youre just another lemming.

lets see how far my qualification, background and experience gets me next week after connecting up with a senior guy at a firm in Leicester via Linkedin and he said send him my CV and he will pass onto the guy who handles the sort of business that I do. Its approx. 30 miles from home so will this other guy view that just the same as the guy from the company 22 miles away from me reported last week will? I hate that sort of "mileage prejudice". If the distance bothered me I wouldnt waste my time applying. Not only do they want the perfect candidate they also want you to live just round the corner.

meantime i have had 2 more emails saying unsuccessful. they really dont give anything away do they in these emails? you have no idea what they though of you its just a big fat no and thats all you get these days.

Edited by ToothbrushMan on Saturday 8th September 13:30

ToothbrushMan

Original Poster:

1,610 posts

69 months

Saturday 8th September 2018
quotequote all
MitchT said:
Ruskie said:
My biggest gripe with looking at jobs is not publishing a salary. Drives me insane.
This. A million times!

Employers always have an exhaustive list of what they want you to bring to the table but don't feel any obligation to indicate what they're bringing to the table. Makes my piss boil. Perhaps I should apply by sending a list of my living costs but give no indication that I have the prerequisite skills for the role.

Then there's adverts which say "competitive" salary which is fking meaningless.

Then there's the ones in the creative sector which don't indicate salary but give a long list of so-called perks... the office pool table, the office dog, the jar of free sweets on the desk in the corner by the water cooler, "your very own MacBook Pro" - 'cause now the computer I need to do my job is now apparently a perk!!!... "friday afternoon drinks" - 'cause there's no better way to start the weekend than driving home drunk... the annual company away day... etc.

Seriously, just pay me a decent wage and give me a decent pension. What matters to me is being able to cover the cost of food, shelter, utility bills and, god forgive my greed, having enough left to go on the occasional holiday. I don't give a st about so called perks!

Anyway, I've created a version of my CV with my salary expectations on it and that's the one I send if a role doesn't have a salary indicated.
ha. classic stuff here. youre right. also add to that "superb office environment" ...."dress down fridays" ......"free tea and coffee"......"lots of work socials"......"vouchers for this that and the other".........honestly you have work that needs to be done and I dont give a hoot about the office carpet or the casual dress. just pay a decent salary/

ive yet to see a job advert though with something that I would like to see....this "I.T. systems that actually work and allow you to quickly process the amount of work that we expect from you within your contracted hours". what boils my urea is the number of places I have worked at where the crap IT really does hold people back or reduces/impacts on efficiency due to outtages, screen freezes, systems down for maintenance, work builds up a backlog that you then are trying to catch back up on. Thats a basic surely?

MitchT

12,584 posts

153 months

Saturday 8th September 2018
quotequote all
ToothbrushMan said:
yet many online applications require you to disclose your last or current salary. i dont like this question as it smacks of the employer wanting to gauge how low they can get the ideal applicant in for.
Forgot to mention this in my rant. Smacks of them wanting to lowball you and wanting to know how low they can go. I don't answer it. They know what their budget is for the role as someone had to sign it off. If they want a job doing and they know what it's worth to them to get it done then there's no need for them to know what you were previously paid to do something similar.

ToothbrushMan

Original Poster:

1,610 posts

69 months

Saturday 8th September 2018
quotequote all
i know this is straight forward lying i admit but now what I do on roles that I am treating as stop gaps lets say the salary is from £18-20K. on the question about current salary or salary required I would put "£17k" or maybe "18k" and take a flier on that. i am not ruling myself out by not answering the question for that particular job or out pricing myself by saying for example £25k.

so far though even that tactic hasnt fooled anyone frown

MitchT

12,584 posts

153 months

Saturday 8th September 2018
quotequote all
Depends what line of work you're in and how desperate you are I guess. I'm happy to price myself out of working for tight fisted scrooges. My job can be anywhere from £18k to £45k and this seems to have more to do with the attitude of the employer than the scope of the role or experience required. I'm not interested in progressing an application with anyone who's paying less than £30k so I'll gladly put them off with an "unrealistic" salary requirement. In my experience employers that pay st wages also make st pension contributions, have st terms of employment and are populated by colleagues who are fed up 'cause they're only there because they can't get a job anywhere else.

Timja

1,772 posts

153 months

Saturday 8th September 2018
quotequote all
Just accepted a new job. This time round I could not have had a better experience, 3 applications, 3 interviews, 3 good job offers.

Maybe luck, maybe right jobs at the right time, who knows but gives you a lot more confidence that there are good roles at good companies out there!

Previously a lot of frustrations have come from recruitment consultants wasting my time having promised the world or struggling to find something within a decent commuting distance. New job will be shortest commute for 15 years (20 miles), cant wait!

soad

30,230 posts

120 months

Saturday 8th September 2018
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creampuff said:
Not a good response. They think you are going to jack as soon as something better comes up. That response doesn’t give them confidence that you won’t. Make up a better reason.
Or brush up on Core Interview Skills/Common Interview Questions etc. wink

ToothbrushMan

Original Poster:

1,610 posts

69 months

Sunday 9th September 2018
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Timja said:
Just accepted a new job. This time round I could not have had a better experience, 3 applications, 3 interviews, 3 good job offers.

Maybe luck, maybe right jobs at the right time, who knows but gives you a lot more confidence that there are good roles at good companies out there!

Previously a lot of frustrations have come from recruitment consultants wasting my time having promised the world or struggling to find something within a decent commuting distance. New job will be shortest commute for 15 years (20 miles), cant wait!
thats great. well done pal.