Health & Safety Jobsworth

Health & Safety Jobsworth

Author
Discussion

ponchie

110 posts

114 months

Saturday 22nd June
quotequote all
Cold said:
You can't bring non-PAT tested stuff into the office. But you can plug them in at home as you and your family aren't important.
It's to do with the balance of power in the work environment between employee and employer, otherwise you will have situations where employers will provide unsafe equipment and you are told to either use it or pack up and go home.

At home there is no one telling you to use things. Drill got a frayed cable? Simply don't use it until you can get a replacement. What do you do in the workplace if your employer tells you to use the knackered drill? Common sense says tell them you will work when they get you a safe drill but there will be plenty that will just get on with it and endanger themselves.

Cyberprog

1,908 posts

127 months

Saturday 22nd June
quotequote all
ponchie said:
It's to do with the balance of power in the work environment between employee and employer, otherwise you will have situations where employers will provide unsafe equipment and you are told to either use it or pack up and go home.

At home there is no one telling you to use things. Drill got a frayed cable? Simply don't use it until you can get a replacement. What do you do in the workplace if your employer tells you to use the knackered drill? Common sense says tell them you will work when they get you a safe drill but there will be plenty that will just get on with it and endanger themselves.
Employers have a duty of care under the Electricity at Work Regulations.

pghstochaj

154 posts

63 months

Saturday 22nd June
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HTP99 said:
Or a fire exit sign above the one and only door in a very small office, I'm not sure how one would otherwise exit!!
That sign isn’t need by any regulations though, you only need a sign where there can be confusion or there are multiple routes from where you are stood. If there is a fire escape sign above the only door in a small office, the designer got it wrong, or designed too cautiously.

Antony Moxey

4,661 posts

163 months

Saturday 22nd June
quotequote all
Not sure the H&S jobsworth did anything wrong, if the rules are you need a drip tray then get a drip tray. He doesn’t need to explain why, you simply need to adhere to the site rules, it’s pretty much that simple.

foxbody-87

2,031 posts

110 months

Saturday 22nd June
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I personally wouldn’t run a generator in a plastic wheelbarrow. They get hot and they vibrate. I’d put it on something steady ie. the ground. It’s asking to tip over if you ask me

Edited by foxbody-87 on Saturday 22 June 17:17

98elise

14,621 posts

105 months

Sunday 23rd June
quotequote all
ruggedscotty said:
Cold said:
You can't bring non-PAT tested stuff into the office. But you can plug them in at home as you and your family aren't important.
Health and safety at work act - you can thank for that one...… you home is not covered as it is not a place of work, the regulations were designed to make your place of work less likely to kill you.
Plus your are responsible for your own acrions at home. At work your employer has some responsibility for your actions.

98elise

14,621 posts

105 months

Sunday 23rd June
quotequote all
The Vambo said:
Saleen836 said:
As title, as is the norm on construction sites if you use a generator it has to sit in a drip tray as obviously the odd drip of oil/petrol is far worse for the enviroment than what ever drips/leaks from the plant machinery on sites rolleyes

To make life easy for myself I carry a wheelbarrow in my van, as it is easier to put the generator in and push it to whatever plot I am working in and also acts as a perfect drip tray. Apparently not according to the H&S jobsworth I encountered today, he was adamant my generator needs to be removed from the wheelbarrow and placed on a drip tray, of course when I questioned him on this and asked him to explain his reasoning as to why a wheel barrow isn't acceptable as a drip tray, he just mumbled under his breath and walked off confused
People who argue with site rules are the same people who argue with parking wardens, fking morons.
Sometimes you have to challenge them. I worked on a site where 24 hrs notice was needed to bring any contractor on to site. As the site transitioned into a public space the same rules applied.

Then we got our first lift entrapment, and the lift engineers were stoped because we hadn't given 24 hrs notice of their attendance. I had to have a stand up argument with the guy until he agree to let them on "just this once".

The other option was to leave the customers in the lift for 24hrs!

Drumroll

1,395 posts

64 months

Sunday 23rd June
quotequote all
Saleen836 said:
As title, as is the norm on construction sites if you use a generator it has to sit in a drip tray as obviously the odd drip of oil/petrol is far worse for the enviroment than what ever drips/leaks from the plant machinery on sites rolleyes

To make life easy for myself I carry a wheelbarrow in my van, as it is easier to put the generator in and push it to whatever plot I am working in and also acts as a perfect drip tray. Apparently not according to the H&S jobsworth I encountered today, he was adamant my generator needs to be removed from the wheelbarrow and placed on a drip tray, of course when I questioned him on this and asked him to explain his reasoning as to why a wheel barrow isn't acceptable as a drip tray, he just mumbled under his breath and walked off confused
As others have said wheelbarrows are relatively unstable. whilst I have often moved generators around site in a wheelbarrow I have never run a generator in one. Reasons being: wheelbarrows are unstable, operating a generator in a wheelbarrow can be a lot noisier, half the time plugging stuff in to a generator in wheelbarrow is pain in the butt, and the biggest thing is trying to start a generator in a wheelbarrow.

Where I think the H & S adviser was wrong is not engaging with you about his reasoning. Have often had discussions with H & S advisers, some you win some you loose. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them a "jobsworth"

randomeddy

672 posts

81 months

Sunday 14th July
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I work in construction, we deal with H&S people by just smiling, nodding and agreeing with them. There is no other way, you will never win. They tell you that you are doing something wrong but can't come up with a solution to get it done in line with the rules.

The less they know the better. Just be clever.



ruggedscotty

1,483 posts

153 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
randomeddy said:
I work in construction, we deal with H&S people by just smiling, nodding and agreeing with them. There is no other way, you will never win. They tell you that you are doing something wrong but can't come up with a solution to get it done in line with the rules.

The less they know the better. Just be clever.
Yup and you will be the first to try and sue the company when you have been injured doing it your way. they are there to try and help you, to look out for your safety and all we seem to do is crap on and on about them.

Do you want to go back to the good old days where we send in 5 year olds to un fankle the threads while keeping the machines running....

CustardOnChips

176 posts

6 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
randomeddy said:
I work in construction, we deal with H&S people by just smiling, nodding and agreeing with them. There is no other way, you will never win. They tell you that you are doing something wrong but can't come up with a solution to get it done in line with the rules.

The less they know the better. Just be clever.
What is it you do?


vonuber

11,814 posts

109 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
randomeddy said:
I work in construction, we deal with H&S people by just smiling, nodding and agreeing with them. There is no other way, you will never win. They tell you that you are doing something wrong but can't come up with a solution to get it done in line with the rules.

The less they know the better. Just be clever.
Oh, you are one of those.

GT03ROB

7,779 posts

165 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
randomeddy said:
I work in construction, we deal with H&S people by just smiling, nodding and agreeing with them. There is no other way, you will never win. They tell you that you are doing something wrong but can't come up with a solution to get it done in line with the rules.

The less they know the better. Just be clever.
So do I. Internationally we find safety stats are far worse in the US & Europe than we can achieve in the Mideast or similar.

Why? There are a bunch of know it alls that know far better than anyone else how to do their job safely in the US & Europe. Whereas elsewhere people tend to listen to advice.

m3jappa

4,313 posts

162 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
Its one reason why i absolutely hate site work and avoid it now.

Theres zero interest in actually getting the work done, even less to a decent standard. As long as your wearing a hard hat while laying turf in the middle of a field its ok. As long as you aren't wearing shorts its ok.

Of course a lot of it makes total sense and there has to be rules and guidelines otherwise stupid people would be killing themselves or others but for the type of work we do its excessive.

I usually find (not always) that site work it run by managers who think they are running coca cola or some other massive global business. Everything is the end of the world, that is until 4pm when they are finished and getting any contact at all is out of the question.

Much prefer domestic where at the moment within reason common sense prevails.

Johnnytheboy

18,180 posts

130 months

Monday 15th July
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My firm is an interior landscaping company (i.e. plants in offices).

Some places make us wear steel toecapped boots.

Some places make us wear reflective jackets.

This is while moving round an office populated with normally-attired people.

One place made us enter via goods in where we had to wear reflective jackets, but prohibited us from wearing them in the office.

Same large client made our entire workforce (including the admin staff) undertake a generalised groundworks/landscaping one day course which was entirely irrelevant to us at a cost of £200 IIRC each. Then promptly took the contract off us.

We aren't allowed to use any commercially available pesticides by law. However a number of large firms have mandated that a proportion of our workforce possess a (by its nature irrelevant) horticultural spraying licence.

Some places prohibit us from using our own ladders, while others prohibit us from using theirs, in each case on the grounds of H&S.

One place won't let us use the stairs so we have to go from floor to floor in the lifts.

I could go on...

GT03ROB

7,779 posts

165 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
m3jappa said:
. As long as your wearing a hard hat while laying turf in the middle of a field its ok. As long as you aren't wearing shorts its ok.

Of course a lot of it makes total sense and there has to be rules and guidelines otherwise stupid people would be killing themselves or others but for the type of work we do its excessive.

Much prefer domestic where at the moment within reason common sense prevails.
Some of it is nonsense & hard hats while laying turf quite obviously is if that's all you do. Some of it though whilst superficially unnecessary is about forming habits. It'll come to domestic too in due course!

The Don of Croy

4,893 posts

103 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
GT03ROB said:
... It'll come to domestic too in due course!
I spot a niche here for 'designer COSHH cabinets' for those expensive kitchens people like nowadays, like a regular COSHH cabinet but better margins. Where else can you keep your bleach/dishwasher tablets?

That and Versace EN388 gloves. D & G EN166 glasses, DIOR coveralls. The list is endless.

We'll make millions - who wants a slice of the action?

Now I just have to draft ISO45001 for the domestic duties. Done by tea time.

wullie_t25

107 posts

124 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
Its sad the attitude that a lot of site guys have towards H&S on site. Ultimately they are there to protect the company, but in doing so protect you both physically and financially.

The use and storage of fuel / generator will be covered in the site file / RAMS and under COSHH.


johnwilliams77

5,578 posts

47 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
GT03ROB said:
So do I. Internationally we find safety stats are far worse in the US & Europe than we can achieve in the Mideast or similar.

Why? There are a bunch of know it alls that know far better than anyone else how to do their job safely in the US & Europe. Whereas elsewhere people tend to listen to advice.
Why? Because US and Europe report their incidents

colin_p

1,947 posts

156 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
Hadn't you better put the drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails and,
Hadn't you better put that drip tray in another drip just in case that drip trays fails until
The whole planet is taken over by ever increasingly sized drip trays, like Russian Dolls but drip trays.

And what happens, heaven forbid if a drip actually drips in the drip tray? Ten mile exclusion zone, close the nearest motorways and airports, stop all air traffic flying overhead and phone the fire brigade?



Most H&S gone mad has gone mad because opportunist scum will take any and every chance to put a claim in and go after com-pen-say-shun. That and the corporate manslaughter legislation in 2008 that made the fat controllers sit up and take notice.

There are some stupid rules though. I've seen painters painting skirting boards in an otherwise finished building getting bked for not wearing their hard hats.

One rule I do agree with is the banning of rigger boots, but there again the fashion police should have done that years earlier than the H&S wombles.