Evening meal allowance - London
Discussion
borcy said:
basherX said:
There’s something like 90,000 employees so a centralised approach just won’t work.
Expenses are all (supposed to be) reviewed by line managers and approved/queried. I think I’ve seen two within teams I’ve been in (in almost 20 years) receive serious challenge. We do have background automation searching for oddities and there’s a whistleblower procedure which I’ve seen result in action against some poor behaviour. (One chap famously bought a horse on his company credit card).
The system (Concur) and the corporate agent enforce limits on hotel prices (which are largely globally agreed with major providers) and airfares according to policy.
Until not long ago I ran the financial control framework so I’ve seen more of this than some of my colleagues and whilst I sympathise with the need for airfare and hotel limits I know that if we put something around subsistence it would move from “limit” to “target” and I do generally believe most people, at least in Finance where I work, know when they’re taking the piss.
That's interesting, we've a similar number (100k+) employees and all expenses are centrally controlled in the sense that's there's hard limits on all meals/allowances. Expenses are all (supposed to be) reviewed by line managers and approved/queried. I think I’ve seen two within teams I’ve been in (in almost 20 years) receive serious challenge. We do have background automation searching for oddities and there’s a whistleblower procedure which I’ve seen result in action against some poor behaviour. (One chap famously bought a horse on his company credit card).
The system (Concur) and the corporate agent enforce limits on hotel prices (which are largely globally agreed with major providers) and airfares according to policy.
Until not long ago I ran the financial control framework so I’ve seen more of this than some of my colleagues and whilst I sympathise with the need for airfare and hotel limits I know that if we put something around subsistence it would move from “limit” to “target” and I do generally believe most people, at least in Finance where I work, know when they’re taking the piss.
Might even be the same place.
Basically dont take the pee. Treat it as if it was your own personal money.
Guidelines as to what is reasonable, but the intent is you should neither be out of pocket, or profit from travelling.
There are clear rules on air travel, but it is left to line managers to apply common sense.
Clearly, you have to be prepared, and able to justify everything.
By and large.. it works
As always, there are edge cases, but by and large it works.
Edited by HiAsAKite on Monday 29th April 12:44
HiAsAKite said:
Our place is more aligned to basher's
Might even be the same place.
Basically dont take the pee. Treat it as ifvitvwas your own personal money.
Guidelines as to what is reasonable, but the intent is you should neither be out of pocket, or profit from travelling.
There are clear rules on air travel, but it is left to line managers to apply common sense.
Clearly, you have to be prepared, and able to justify everything.
By and large.. it works
As always, there are edge cases, but by and large it works.
Agreed, although the “treat it as if it were your own money” always makes me smile given I’m definitely not the last word in frugality when I’m on personal travel. Might even be the same place.
Basically dont take the pee. Treat it as ifvitvwas your own personal money.
Guidelines as to what is reasonable, but the intent is you should neither be out of pocket, or profit from travelling.
There are clear rules on air travel, but it is left to line managers to apply common sense.
Clearly, you have to be prepared, and able to justify everything.
By and large.. it works
As always, there are edge cases, but by and large it works.
HiAsAKite said:
Our place is more aligned to basher's
Might even be the same place.
Basically dont take the pee. Treat it as ifvitvwas your own personal money.
Guidelines as to what is reasonable, but the intent is you should neither be out of pocket, or profit from travelling.
There are clear rules on air travel, but it is left to line managers to apply common sense.
Clearly, you have to be prepared, and able to justify everything.
By and large.. it works
As always, there are edge cases, but by and large it works.
I always thought that the bigger the business the more rules. I've only known two places that had anything as long as it was reasonable and they both had employees in the single figures.Might even be the same place.
Basically dont take the pee. Treat it as ifvitvwas your own personal money.
Guidelines as to what is reasonable, but the intent is you should neither be out of pocket, or profit from travelling.
There are clear rules on air travel, but it is left to line managers to apply common sense.
Clearly, you have to be prepared, and able to justify everything.
By and large.. it works
As always, there are edge cases, but by and large it works.
I guess that's not always the case.
Sporky said:
We had someone go significantly overboard - five figures. He was given the choice of paying it back, being fired and taken to court, or going to (IIRC) five years' notice with the money taken out of his pay over that period.
He's still with us...
What kind of meal does one get for £10,000?He's still with us...
BigBen said:
Sporky said:
We had someone go significantly overboard - five figures. He was given the choice of paying it back, being fired and taken to court, or going to (IIRC) five years' notice with the money taken out of his pay over that period.
He's still with us...
What kind of meal does one get for £10,000?He's still with us...
We had a limit of (I think - it was a decade or so ago now) £25 per person per night, they were averaging over £80.
A company I worked for had a policy of $110/day. But, one of the senior guys didn’t want to waste his time approving expenses so said only one meal a day could be expensed. He quit but the policy remained.
Unintended consequence was teams going out and ordering a bottle of wine each to hit the limit because they were annoyed they had to pay for breakfast and lunch.
The problem was that none of the senior people knew this was going on because they didn’t have the same policy and they didn’t do their own expenses. It only came to light at an ask me anything. The policy was immediately changed.
Unintended consequence was teams going out and ordering a bottle of wine each to hit the limit because they were annoyed they had to pay for breakfast and lunch.
The problem was that none of the senior people knew this was going on because they didn’t have the same policy and they didn’t do their own expenses. It only came to light at an ask me anything. The policy was immediately changed.
Blown2CV said:
the tax man would be on your case for BIK if they got wind you were claiming for what would be classed more as a perk than a legitimate business expense. It only takes one disgruntled ex employee to whistleblow routine expensing of £60-70 meals and you'd be screwed!
Agreed, you have to be able to justify it.Spent a lot of time in the Norway recently. Eating out is expensive. But that's what it costs there, so its reasonable, when viewed in context.
In London- you can almost pay as much, or little as you want..
technically it's not quite fair enough as you typically wouldn't have access to cooking facilities, a decently priced supermarket etc. and buying in quantities to make it cheaper per meal etc. Whatever it costs for a burger a chips i reckon. Clearly you don't have to actually choose that, but it's not a bad rule of thumb. I usually would end up expensing £20-30.
Deliveroo to the hotel room has been a game changer for me on days when i just can't be f
ked to get my st together and leave the hotel.
Deliveroo to the hotel room has been a game changer for me on days when i just can't be f
ked to get my st together and leave the hotel. IJWS15 said:
I see many posters are forgetting that they are not paying for the meal they would have eaten if at home………
Last company I worked for had a £27 evening meal allowance and a (IIRC) £10 all day allowance. If breakfast wasn’t at the hotel then it was in the all day allowance. I think I exceeded the meal allowance once although you learn to eat in the bar to avoid the room service charge.
One thing the policy did was kill early starts, other big companies I worked for just required it to be reasonable and I never had a breakfast claim refused when I had left home at 6 am.
Don’t underestimate the cost of expenses to the business, I once went to check progress on a claim and the lady in accounts referenced a screen which had a total of £8k at the bottom. I asked and the number was the expenses I had been paid that financial year (to Sept), in 1995 it was about 40% of my salary.
When I was running a one man Ltd company doing freelance consulting, my wife did most of the admin. Last company I worked for had a £27 evening meal allowance and a (IIRC) £10 all day allowance. If breakfast wasn’t at the hotel then it was in the all day allowance. I think I exceeded the meal allowance once although you learn to eat in the bar to avoid the room service charge.
One thing the policy did was kill early starts, other big companies I worked for just required it to be reasonable and I never had a breakfast claim refused when I had left home at 6 am.
Don’t underestimate the cost of expenses to the business, I once went to check progress on a claim and the lady in accounts referenced a screen which had a total of £8k at the bottom. I asked and the number was the expenses I had been paid that financial year (to Sept), in 1995 it was about 40% of my salary.
She was a stickler. Her turn of phrase was "I dont think even your dodgy accountant would risk that with the HMRC"
In the year before covid, I pretty much was away 4 nights every week, so my expenses were way more than my salary. (But less than my dividend)
This is ours, I'd say generous I guess for the whole day;
We will reimburse meals and drinks, against submitting of receipts, with a maximum of £ 70 per day (or a different amount based on the big mac index as detailed above). All claims must be accompanied by a receipt. Alcoholic beverages should be limited and must exclude spirits (> 35% A.B.V.), provided that the employee has completed all work-related tasks and will not drive post consumption.
We will reimburse meals and drinks, against submitting of receipts, with a maximum of £ 70 per day (or a different amount based on the big mac index as detailed above). All claims must be accompanied by a receipt. Alcoholic beverages should be limited and must exclude spirits (> 35% A.B.V.), provided that the employee has completed all work-related tasks and will not drive post consumption.
HiAsAKite said:
Agreed, you have to be able to justify it.
Spent a lot of time in the Norway recently. Eating out is expensive. But that's what it costs there, so its reasonable, when viewed in context.
In London- you can almost pay as much, or little as you want..
When you've got up at silly o'clock, travelled miles across the country, done an 11 hour day, eventually got to your hotel at 7pm, in an town you don't know, and you don't want to eat a fat burger with lard fried chips, but something healthy with a quiet ambience, you shouldn't have to keep to £12. Spent a lot of time in the Norway recently. Eating out is expensive. But that's what it costs there, so its reasonable, when viewed in context.
In London- you can almost pay as much, or little as you want..
Can you find something as healthy and nutritious as you'd normally eat at home for a low price.
all this talk saying it should only cost what it does to feed yourself at home is crazy. You can cook a roast chicken dinner at home for around £2 per person. A ribeye steak at home (not an everyday meal for most) would cost around £8 per head yet in an average restaurant be what £30 to£35.
Can of coke at home 40p from a multipack, £3 when out.
Can of coke at home 40p from a multipack, £3 when out.
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