Massive career change - becoming a barber

[Alickadoo]

BoRED S2upid said:

Monkeylegend said:

Countdown said:

I shave my head so haven't needed a barber for 5-8 years

However there are two local to me; one is an asian guy who started off charging £5 a cut until he'd built up a customer base and now charges £8, the other one is much more "trendy/fashionable" type place which charges £25.

I'd be surprised if the £8 guy is making less than £150 a day. There are always 4/5 people in his shop waiting for a cut.

At £150 a day with all his running costs he would find it very hard , if not impossible, to survive and make a decent living.

Horse st. That’s like £4000 a week £200,000 a year for what is probably a tiny shop a pair of scissors and a shaver!

Que?

£150 x 6 = er £900. Have I not been paying attention - again?

[Jamescrs]

AndyAudi said:

I’ve always thought watching the kids getting cuts it’s to be like footballers etc so I guess keep an eye on the premier league styles! I’m genuinely surprised to see parents spending so much on kids cuts, but peer pressure means it’s damn near compulsory in my town yet If you’re over 40 most folk frequent the gents hairdressers & pay £8 every 3-4weeks

I saw a post on a local facebook group where a young mum was complaining a barber had left her sons hair in what was apparently a bad state (seemed fine to me in the pic she posted). and she couldn't let him leave the house for weeks.

The boy was under 5 I would guess and probably couldn't care less about his hair.

I think now a lot of parents are worse than the children, but good for barbers I guess

[BoRED S2upid]

Monkeylegend said:

Not h poo at all, my other half does her book keeping so I see every detail of her running costs etc.


She employs about 10 staff to be fair and her minimum cut and blow dry is about £30 with things like extensions costing up to £300, but the cost of the products is very high.

I am just making the point that when you say you charge £10 for a haircut, if you are running your own shop and even more so if you are VAT registered, you will only take about £2 maybe £3 of that for yourself.

Her staff are always moaning about how much she charges and the fact that they only earn not much above minimum wage, but as in all these case they don't realise how much a business like this costs to run in an accessible town centre ish slot.

Her business rates and shop rent alone are nearly £6k a month.

Edited to add that anybody who thinks they can do a 9 week intensive course and suddenly become a proficient hairdresser/barber are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Her trainees do a minimum 2 year college course followed by continual in shop assessments until they reach qualified junior stylist level, and then need to gain further shop experience before they are freely let loose on customers.

The last thing you want is somebody who thinks they are now a fully qualified barber/hairdresser having done a 9 weeks course given free reign with your established customers.

They will very soon become somebody elses customers

There is also ongoing college training to keep up to date with changing styles, methods of cutting etc.

Edited by Monkeylegend on Wednesday 19th June 12:38

Employing 10 staff is a completely different ball game to 1 chap in a small shop with 1 chair 1 light doing a few cuts an hour. Your wife’s costs will be massive in comparison. Staff are very expensive to employ.

[BoRED S2upid]

Alickadoo said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Monkeylegend said:

Countdown said:

I shave my head so haven't needed a barber for 5-8 years

However there are two local to me; one is an asian guy who started off charging £5 a cut until he'd built up a customer base and now charges £8, the other one is much more "trendy/fashionable" type place which charges £25.

I'd be surprised if the £8 guy is making less than £150 a day. There are always 4/5 people in his shop waiting for a cut.

At £150 a day with all his running costs he would find it very hard , if not impossible, to survive and make a decent living.

Horse st. That’s like £4000 a week £200,000 a year for what is probably a tiny shop a pair of scissors and a shaver!

Que?

£150 x 6 = er £900. Have I not been paying attention - again?

lol I meant month. And it’s likely to be more than £150 a day point being the one man barber would make a living out of it quite easily. How often do barbers go bust?

[Monkeylegend]

BoRED S2upid said:

Employing 10 staff is a completely different ball game to 1 chap in a small shop with 1 chair 1 light doing a few cuts an hour. Your wife’s costs will be massive in comparison. Staff are very expensive to employ.

The problem is as I see it either Petrus sets up on his own which will be costly to get the right premises etc, or he works for his friend who himself might have quite heavy overheads and will probably charge a chair rent.

Either way he will be moving from a presumably safe, well paid position, to one that he has no experience or skill in, and typically going in at that level earns little more than minimum wage certainly for the short term, and will take time to prove his worth and build up a client base.

I suspect it will never pay as well as anticipated but as long as Petrus is ok with that it should not be an issue.

The downside of being effectively self employed is not getting all the benefits of being in the employ of a bigger company, including pensions, holiday and sick pay etc, the value of which should not be underestimated.

It would also be wise to have Public Liability insurance for those inevitable early cock ups

[BoRED S2upid]

Monkeylegend said:

The problem is as I see it either Petrus sets up on his own which will be costly to get the right premises etc, or he works for his friend who himself might have quite heavy overheads and will probably charge a chair rent.

Either way he will be moving from a presumably safe, well paid position, to one that he has no experience or skill in, and typically going in at that level earns little more than minimum wage certainly for the short term, and will take time to prove his worth and build up a client base.

I suspect it will never pay as well as anticipated but as long as Petrus is ok with that it should not be an issue.

The downside of being effectively self employed is not getting all the benefits of being in the employ of a bigger company, including pensions, holiday and sick pay etc, the value of which should not be underestimated.

It would also be wise to have Public Liability insurance for those inevitable early cock ups

West Wales. Shouldn’t be too costly.

[Countdown]

Monkeylegend said:

My partners daughter has her own salon with both male and female customers and her VAT bill alone is roughly £13k every 3 months.

Her monthly running costs including rent, rates, utilities, wages, products etc are well over £20k

Even without staff costs she would need to clear at least £12k a month before she starts earning anything for herself.

The only way Petrus could make any decent money is to rent a chair in another shop or become an employee if you only charge £10 for a haircut and even then he wouldn't be earning much above the minimum wage.

The bloke I'm talking about never takes longer than 10 minutes per haircut. Even if he does 4 an hour that's 4 x £8 x 7.

To be honest we could argue figures/gross profit/overheads all week. The proof of the pudding is in the eating; he started out at £5 a cut, he's now charging £8 a cut. he'd probably be charging much more about 3 "Turkish" barbers have also opened in what is quite a small town and they charge between £12 - £15. if he wasn't making what he considered a a fair amont of money he'd close up.

[Petrus1983]

Thanks for the concern re my wage etc.

I haven't worked for a few years - I sold my financial company, bought a boat, did some travelling, moved to a new place and have taken some time to myself. It's been nice.

Almost 8 years to the day I put my savings into a little known company called Nvidia. In those 8 years it's done ok.

I respect people who want superyachts - but I don't have that many friends so I'd look weird on one, I respect people who want supercars - but I don't really like driving anymore and it wouldn't be as good as my racing days anyway.

Basically I'm looking for something I'd enjoy, keep me busy, and ultimately see what happens.

[Petrus1983]

BoRED S2upid said:

lol I meant month. And it’s likely to be more than £150 a day point being the one man barber would make a living out of it quite easily. How often do barbers go bust?

A friend is an Uber driver - he works 5 days a week and once he hits £150 that's him done for the day. But then he has his car costs/fuel (hybrid) to cover from that. He's happy.

[BoRED S2upid]

Petrus1983 said:

BoRED S2upid said:

lol I meant month. And it’s likely to be more than £150 a day point being the one man barber would make a living out of it quite easily. How often do barbers go bust?

A friend is an Uber driver - he works 5 days a week and once he hits £150 that's him done for the day. But then he has his car costs/fuel (hybrid) to cover from that. He's happy.

I keep suggesting this to my wife. You get promoted leave the kids to me but myself a nice wafty 5 series and do Uber.

[okgo]

Petrus1983 said:

Thanks for the concern re my wage etc.

I haven't worked for a few years - I sold my financial company, bought a boat, did some travelling, moved to a new place and have taken some time to myself. It's been nice.

Almost 8 years to the day I put my savings into a little known company called Nvidia. In those 8 years it's done ok.

I respect people who want superyachts - but I don't have that many friends so I'd look weird on one, I respect people who want supercars - but I don't really like driving anymore and it wouldn't be as good as my racing days anyway.

Basically I'm looking for something I'd enjoy, keep me busy, and ultimately see what happens.

How did you decide on nvidia all that time back? Must be quite an interesting story. And now I can see why money isn’t a problem

[Monkeylegend]

As an aside remember you will be dealing with quite a number of the great unwashed, complete with dandruff and loads of grease

Make sure you wash your hands before eating your lunchtime sandwich.

[Petrus1983]

Monkeylegend said:

As an aside remember you will be dealing with quite a number of the great unwashed, complete with dandruff and loads of grease

Make sure you wash your hands before eating your lunchtime sandwich.

Nah - they're banned - they'll be a sign on the door

[Monkeylegend]

Petrus1983 said:

Monkeylegend said:

As an aside remember you will be dealing with quite a number of the great unwashed, complete with dandruff and loads of grease

Make sure you wash your hands before eating your lunchtime sandwich.

Nah - they're banned - they'll be a sign on the door

My DiL will never cut anyone's hair unless she washes it first and never lets them leave the salon with it wet.

[Steve H]

BoRED S2upid said:

Alickadoo said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Monkeylegend said:

Countdown said:

I shave my head so haven't needed a barber for 5-8 years

However there are two local to me; one is an asian guy who started off charging £5 a cut until he'd built up a customer base and now charges £8, the other one is much more "trendy/fashionable" type place which charges £25.

I'd be surprised if the £8 guy is making less than £150 a day. There are always 4/5 people in his shop waiting for a cut.

At £150 a day with all his running costs he would find it very hard , if not impossible, to survive and make a decent living.

Horse st. That’s like £4000 a week £200,000 a year for what is probably a tiny shop a pair of scissors and a shaver!

Que?

£150 x 6 = er £900. Have I not been paying attention - again?

lol I meant month. And it’s likely to be more than £150 a day point being the one man barber would make a living out of it quite easily. How often do barbers go bust?

At £8 a head he would need to do 3 every hour for the day to probably take a bit over £100 after costs, but before tax. That’s effectively £25k pa and never off your feet.

The money part may not be relevant to the OP but it sounds like a tough way to make a living to me.

[PRO5T]

Steve H said:

At £8 a head he would need to do 3 every hour for the day to probably take a bit over £100 after costs, but before tax. That’s effectively £25k pa and never off your feet.

The money part may not be relevant to the OP but it sounds like a tough way to make a living to me.

Physically it can be if you're not suited to it. A lot suffer with back problems naturally RSI is quite widespread and CPS even more although more so in older members of staff. The girl who cuts my hair now complains of her back and her posture is awful (her words), she's late thirties I think and has been doing it since she was sixteen. It isn't working down an Edwardian coal mine but it takes it's toll.

Being on your feet isn't for everyone, it isn't like an enjoyable 7 mile hike every day. It's being on your feet in a hot, sweaty (all my salons were air conditioned but it really only fights against it once it gets busy with bodies and equipment) and congested environment. On a busy Saturday morning we could probably have five or six stylists, a couple of juniors and around ten customers in chairs and another few waiting.

I used to build in a 1200mm gap between sections but in reality that means four people within a few cubic metres of each other, all being blown around by hairdryers every ten minutes or so.

As for personal hygiene it's more usual to be the staff than the customers-working in close proximity with the general public and on top of each other in an enclosed shop does get to you. Stinky staff can be a nightmare especially when they're women and the subject is difficult to bring up let alone solve.

You do obviously get stinky customers as well though. My gaffs were always in the £30+ gents trim that included a cappuccino, two pre washes and a post wash menthol rinse to get rid of the hairs with a head massage by one of the juniors. Different business model.

It'd get rid of the dandruff and sweat, though not the psoriasis. That's a different beast and quite common. A sweet, rancid smelling condition that blocks up the teeth in your comb-babacide is your friend.

One thing that irrationally did my head in was your pockets filling with other peoples hair, it's like the coin pocket in jeans was specially made for it.

The general public are the general public though, we used to price out most of the bampots and luckily we were never targeted by our travelling friends who like to try and get out of paying.

We did every few years get the local "celebrity" family who tried the same who got short shrift.

An ex used to be the in girl at our cities most popular barbours and she used to get the utter dregs. Way too many stories to mention-I would never entertain that market but there was serious coin to be made if you were A/good and B/quick.

Speaking of which, as i've previously mentioned the money laundering I won't go into that again but ALL of the cheap and quick barbers I knew all fiddled the books for cash. ALL.

So to make good money you're going to need to do the same or be priced out of the local market.

You'd think it would be easy to spot for HMRC the locally owned spots seem to take no cash and mostly card transactions and the "Turkish" lot seem to take no card payments and a st ton of cash! Go figure!

[omniflow]

There are far better ways to have a stress free life and earn a reasonable crust - if minimum wage fits that definition for you.

Personally, I deliver and collect cars. I get paid from when I clock on in the morning (either arriving at the depot or leaving home) until I clock off in the evening (again, either arriving back at the depot or arriving home). All of my expenses are paid using a company supplied card, so no using my own money and claiming it back. As I get paid for all downtime during the day, 220 hours / month is not an unreasonable expectation. This pays approx £2,900 before tax (because it's minimum wage you get holiday pay added to your hourly rate)

[Earthdweller]

omniflow said:

There are far better ways to have a stress free life and earn a reasonable crust - if minimum wage fits that definition for you.

Personally, I deliver and collect cars. I get paid from when I clock on in the morning (either arriving at the depot or leaving home) until I clock off in the evening (again, either arriving back at the depot or arriving home). All of my expenses are paid using a company supplied card, so no using my own money and claiming it back. As I get paid for all downtime during the day, 220 hours / month is not an unreasonable expectation. This pays approx £2,900 before tax (because it's minimum wage you get holiday pay added to your hourly rate)

I know quite a few lads doing this, most are ex cops that just enjoy driving and getting out and about and meeting different people/going different places

One lad I know works for a company specialising in medical repatriations of vehicles from across Europe back to the U.K.

It surprisingly more common than you’d think .. fly out to Spain and drive someone’s car/motorhome back

I do some myself but events/vip stuff mostly on an ad-hoc basis

[Petrus1983]

omniflow said:

There are far better ways to have a stress free life and earn a reasonable crust - if minimum wage fits that definition for you.

Personally, I deliver and collect cars. I get paid from when I clock on in the morning (either arriving at the depot or leaving home) until I clock off in the evening (again, either arriving back at the depot or arriving home). All of my expenses are paid using a company supplied card, so no using my own money and claiming it back. As I get paid for all downtime during the day, 220 hours / month is not an unreasonable expectation. This pays approx £2,900 before tax (because it's minimum wage you get holiday pay added to your hourly rate)

Ironically I've done similar but a long time ago. The lack of human interaction would prevent it now though. And I've now paid for the course!

[Countdown]

PRO5T said:

Speaking of which, as i've previously mentioned the money laundering I won't go into that again but ALL of the cheap and quick barbers I knew all fiddled the books for cash. ALL.
!

Apologies for going O/T but whose money is being laundered?

Are the barbers shops, car washes, nail salons etc OVER INFLATING their earnings (by pretending drugs money is legitimate trading income, processing it via their books, paying tax and NI on it and then passing it back to the criminals)?

if that's the case surely they wouldn't actually need or want actual paying customers? That would just be more money to launder, wouldn't it?

Let's say a carwash does 50 valets at £10 each, that's £3k a week, £150k a year. If they're fronting as a money laundering operation why bother with the carwash?