Guidance required - Uni/Masters/Job
Discussion
Hi all,
I've managed to sift through a good number of pages on here, and managed to get some useful info. So, I thought i'd ask a question tailored to my personal circumstances - to get some feedback
So, the situation is:
I'm in my 3rd year of a Joint Honours degree in English and Philosophy. I'm studying said degree at a mediocre 'Modern University'; but one of the UK's best departments - I understand this probably doesn't mean much though. Anyway, I've been told that I am on track for a Double First, which is essentially just a First, but in both combined honours subjects. Joint Honours isn't traditionally highly regarded, unfortunately, but I wasn't told that when I signed up. I've also been told, by the departments, that I should be looking at their MLitt/MPhil programmes.
However, a Masters in 19th Century Romanticism or Wittgenstein won't really get me a job in the real world - well, not quite so easily as the respective departments seem to think. Academia is really competitive, and I couldn't afford to put myself through a PhD. Even then I am not, at this stage, confident enough in my academic ability such that I would consider being capable of that.
So, I was thinking about applying for to do an MSc in Finance. Specifically, Financial/Investment Analysis side, or such like. I've contacted departments, and they said that a good 2:1 and some relevant work experience could give me a good chance, despite not having a relevant degree. The work experience I can get in a Private Pensions and Investment Company, for maybe a few days over 12 weeks or so, unpaid - that has already been discussed regardless of what I choose to do.
However, I don't want to do all of that, only to emerge from the other side with more debt, and still not actually get a job. Unfortunately I don't have great Highers(Adv. Higher B & Higher BBCCC). I did a Summer course in Mathematics, and passed the Advanced Higher paper, but I couldn't be awarded a formal qualification - it was more of an entry requirement set by Edinburgh University for their Engineering courses. For example, I looked at Lloyd's Summer Internships, and you need 300 UCAS points from your top 3 Qualifications. I imagine their graduate scheme will have similar requirements? Even 3 Higher A's could not achieve 300 UCAS points!
Wherever I look I am intimidated by the volume of folk that have a good BSc, from a good school and good A-Levels to boot. Would an MSc, some decent work experience and a good Joint Honours First or 2:1, despite it being an Arts degree, be enough to allow me to even get an interview? I'm good enough at competency questions, and know I could give myself a great chance at interviews. So, after all that I guess I am just wanting the opinion of others whether I have a chance?
Cheers if anyone wasted time reading the above and can give some pointers!
I've managed to sift through a good number of pages on here, and managed to get some useful info. So, I thought i'd ask a question tailored to my personal circumstances - to get some feedback
So, the situation is:
I'm in my 3rd year of a Joint Honours degree in English and Philosophy. I'm studying said degree at a mediocre 'Modern University'; but one of the UK's best departments - I understand this probably doesn't mean much though. Anyway, I've been told that I am on track for a Double First, which is essentially just a First, but in both combined honours subjects. Joint Honours isn't traditionally highly regarded, unfortunately, but I wasn't told that when I signed up. I've also been told, by the departments, that I should be looking at their MLitt/MPhil programmes.
However, a Masters in 19th Century Romanticism or Wittgenstein won't really get me a job in the real world - well, not quite so easily as the respective departments seem to think. Academia is really competitive, and I couldn't afford to put myself through a PhD. Even then I am not, at this stage, confident enough in my academic ability such that I would consider being capable of that.
So, I was thinking about applying for to do an MSc in Finance. Specifically, Financial/Investment Analysis side, or such like. I've contacted departments, and they said that a good 2:1 and some relevant work experience could give me a good chance, despite not having a relevant degree. The work experience I can get in a Private Pensions and Investment Company, for maybe a few days over 12 weeks or so, unpaid - that has already been discussed regardless of what I choose to do.
However, I don't want to do all of that, only to emerge from the other side with more debt, and still not actually get a job. Unfortunately I don't have great Highers(Adv. Higher B & Higher BBCCC). I did a Summer course in Mathematics, and passed the Advanced Higher paper, but I couldn't be awarded a formal qualification - it was more of an entry requirement set by Edinburgh University for their Engineering courses. For example, I looked at Lloyd's Summer Internships, and you need 300 UCAS points from your top 3 Qualifications. I imagine their graduate scheme will have similar requirements? Even 3 Higher A's could not achieve 300 UCAS points!
Wherever I look I am intimidated by the volume of folk that have a good BSc, from a good school and good A-Levels to boot. Would an MSc, some decent work experience and a good Joint Honours First or 2:1, despite it being an Arts degree, be enough to allow me to even get an interview? I'm good enough at competency questions, and know I could give myself a great chance at interviews. So, after all that I guess I am just wanting the opinion of others whether I have a chance?
Cheers if anyone wasted time reading the above and can give some pointers!
Edited by JeS10 on Friday 11th March 13:32
Have you already worked in the industry that you're looking to get into, or are you just generally looking for a more mathematical MSc to help go towards a career in finance?
My view is that unless you have some specific career aims to be in a particular job where you know the chances are significantly better, then a "normal" degree (and equally not having a degree at all!) is more than enough to help you on the way to a decent career, and it's work experience that really counts once you're 5,6,7 years post university.
I would concentrate on finding a career/company that you enjoy, pays enough for your outgoings, and if you're ambitious then look for a company that's medium-large as there's more opporunity to do different roles/gain more experience etc.
My view is that unless you have some specific career aims to be in a particular job where you know the chances are significantly better, then a "normal" degree (and equally not having a degree at all!) is more than enough to help you on the way to a decent career, and it's work experience that really counts once you're 5,6,7 years post university.
I would concentrate on finding a career/company that you enjoy, pays enough for your outgoings, and if you're ambitious then look for a company that's medium-large as there's more opporunity to do different roles/gain more experience etc.
Thanks for the reply
I've been looking at the courses which are more generally involved, and then more specific; Financial Economics to Investment etc. There are a lot of options. I have never worked in the sector, I was hoping the work experience would hopefully give me some sure footing. This would be done before I apply for Masters in Autumn.
I'm not really going into specific companies, its so difficult to get anything, one cannot afford to be picky.
I've been looking at the courses which are more generally involved, and then more specific; Financial Economics to Investment etc. There are a lot of options. I have never worked in the sector, I was hoping the work experience would hopefully give me some sure footing. This would be done before I apply for Masters in Autumn.
I'm not really going into specific companies, its so difficult to get anything, one cannot afford to be picky.
I get a sense that there is a lack of focus on direction and with so many permutations available, its all got a bit daunting, which is understandable. Very few of us are where we are now as a result of some grand strategic plan drawn up when we were 18. It just doesn't work out that way for most. In your circumstances I would determine whether I wanted to work now (because I needed the money), or whether I could afford to study further. Assuming you can afford to continue to study, I would choose a course that I am most interested in, not what you think employers would value most (that could change, but you waking up everyday having to study the subject won't!). Good luck!
rog007 said:
I get a sense that there is a lack of focus on direction and with so many permutations available, its all got a bit daunting, which is understandable. Very few of us are where we are now as a result of some grand strategic plan drawn up when we were 18. It just doesn't work out that way for most. In your circumstances I would determine whether I wanted to work now (because I needed the money), or whether I could afford to study further. Assuming you can afford to continue to study, I would choose a course that I am most interested in, not what you think employers would value most (that could change, but you waking up everyday having to study the subject won't!). Good luck!
I'm not the 'grand strategic plan' type. I appreciate that it is highly unlikely that anyone can actually stick to this; too many external forces outwith one's control. I thought I should better make some plans though, otherwise I'll miss the deadline, and/or be at the end of the queue. Luckily, I can get some support for tuition fees - depending on the programme I apply for. I'd be reluctant to take on much more debt though, so I would continue to work regardless. I'd be looking at 1-year programmes, so it isn't a great length of time to sacrifice.
Thanks for those wise words though, re doing what I have a passion for. I have just been told the exact opposite by virtually everyone else though! I'm in a position where I could probably get into a top 5 University to study English or Philosophy. Perhaps that might be more valuable, in the jobs market, than a exactly relevant degree (Finance/Investment/Banking etc.) from a lesser institution?
Anyway, thanks again, to you both.
vocational MSC is good, but i'd suggest getting a job if you can, experiance will be worth more in a few years time.
I did a BEng, and have been working for a while & doing well.
a friend (who is probably brighter than i) did the same degree an MEng & PHD, but is now finding it difficult, as the PHD doesn’t really count for much out side of engineering
Personally when recruiting financial analysts, especially grads, i recruit for attitude, problem structuring, and proven record of delivery.
being able to demonstrate your worth to the business is more important than academics letter if they have no meaning or context to the employer.
Good luck
Custard
I did a BEng, and have been working for a while & doing well.
a friend (who is probably brighter than i) did the same degree an MEng & PHD, but is now finding it difficult, as the PHD doesn’t really count for much out side of engineering
Personally when recruiting financial analysts, especially grads, i recruit for attitude, problem structuring, and proven record of delivery.
being able to demonstrate your worth to the business is more important than academics letter if they have no meaning or context to the employer.
Good luck
Custard
Could you take a year out and decide rather than rush into something? Decide on what you really want to do in life, what you are qualified to get on to do, what you might need to top up on and get your missing A-levels on the job and what companies might be willing to contribute towards the courses?
You pays your money, you takes your choice. It sounds like you got caught up in the 'everyone must go to uni' mentality, unis sprung up out of old colleges to cater for a huge demand, but the qualification they offered aren't always that useful at the end of it.
A Masters will put you ahead of the competition but you have to choose wisely. With a good masters companies view it as a useful tool to have under your belts and would want you on their books, poor degrees are seen as a doss for people who would rather stay in education than going out and getting a real job. There is a huge snobbery about degrees, where you got it from and what it's in. The snobbery problem got a lot worse after the erruption of new universities and degrees for all
You pays your money, you takes your choice. It sounds like you got caught up in the 'everyone must go to uni' mentality, unis sprung up out of old colleges to cater for a huge demand, but the qualification they offered aren't always that useful at the end of it.
A Masters will put you ahead of the competition but you have to choose wisely. With a good masters companies view it as a useful tool to have under your belts and would want you on their books, poor degrees are seen as a doss for people who would rather stay in education than going out and getting a real job. There is a huge snobbery about degrees, where you got it from and what it's in. The snobbery problem got a lot worse after the erruption of new universities and degrees for all
custardkid said:
vocational MSC is good, but i'd suggest getting a job if you can, experiance will be worth more in a few years time.
I did a BEng, and have been working for a while & doing well.
a friend (who is probably brighter than i) did the same degree an MEng & PHD, but is now finding it difficult, as the PHD doesn’t really count for much out side of engineering
Personally when recruiting financial analysts, especially grads, i recruit for attitude, problem structuring, and proven record of delivery.
being able to demonstrate your worth to the business is more important than academics letter if they have no meaning or context to the employer.
Good luck
Custard
Thanks for the advice. Trouble is, after stupidly taking an Arts degree the likelihood of getting a job with a good company, in a sector - that doesn't care much for Existentialism, or Romantic poetry - is slim. Don't get me wrong, there is a possibility, of course, but it is a slim one I think you'll agree. Its getting that initial post to provide the experience, that I think will be difficult. I did a BEng, and have been working for a while & doing well.
a friend (who is probably brighter than i) did the same degree an MEng & PHD, but is now finding it difficult, as the PHD doesn’t really count for much out side of engineering
Personally when recruiting financial analysts, especially grads, i recruit for attitude, problem structuring, and proven record of delivery.
being able to demonstrate your worth to the business is more important than academics letter if they have no meaning or context to the employer.
Good luck
Custard
Perhaps the obvious thing would be, apply to the graduate schemes and apply to the postgraduate programmes? After I get accepted or declined from some, I can review my options.
Thanks again for the advice. Its always appreciated.
Dibblington said:
Could you take a year out and decide rather than rush into something? Decide on what you really want to do in life, what you are qualified to get on to do, what you might need to top up on and get your missing A-levels on the job and what companies might be willing to contribute towards the courses?
You pays your money, you takes your choice. It sounds like you got caught up in the 'everyone must go to uni' mentality, unis sprung up out of old colleges to cater for a huge demand, but the qualification they offered aren't always that useful at the end of it.
A Masters will put you ahead of the competition but you have to choose wisely. With a good masters companies view it as a useful tool to have under your belts and would want you on their books, poor degrees are seen as a doss for people who would rather stay in education than going out and getting a real job. There is a huge snobbery about degrees, where you got it from and what it's in. The snobbery problem got a lot worse after the erruption of new universities and degrees for all
I completely agree with everything you have said. There is something that doesn't happen much on PH. You pays your money, you takes your choice. It sounds like you got caught up in the 'everyone must go to uni' mentality, unis sprung up out of old colleges to cater for a huge demand, but the qualification they offered aren't always that useful at the end of it.
A Masters will put you ahead of the competition but you have to choose wisely. With a good masters companies view it as a useful tool to have under your belts and would want you on their books, poor degrees are seen as a doss for people who would rather stay in education than going out and getting a real job. There is a huge snobbery about degrees, where you got it from and what it's in. The snobbery problem got a lot worse after the erruption of new universities and degrees for all
I was indeed caught up in the 'you must go to uni' storm. In fact, I preach the importance of higher education to school pupils at the moment with an organisation. I am being careful though, and try to persuade them into choosing the higher ranked instituions and useful courses - which doesn't always make me popular. I just wish someone did that with me! As I said, I got accepted by Edinburgh University to do Engineering and Physics. This was as a result of some hard work over the summer in 2008. Thing is, I went with my heart at that time and chose to do the Arts degree. I guess I just don't want to make another mistake, I made that desicion without any serious consideration re future prospects. I think we're all quite short sighted at that age, or at least ignorant of the long-term reality.
I am aware of the snobbery, but in all fairness how else can they thin the heard? Indeed, is it even snobbery? Surely it is just picking the best people for the job - well, generally speaking at least. I would be confident enough to assume a Oxbridge graduate would be brighter, than I.
That's just it, you need to think more with your head than your heart about what to do.
Personally, I would dearly love to have done something I'm genuinely interested in like astrophysics but the top 1% go on to PhD, live in an observatory, discover a star, become famous and come back as a consultant/ lecturer and rake it in. The other 99% do the course out of interest and struggle to find employment on the other end because it doesn't really relate to the real world.
I did an MEng in mechanical engineering and went on to get chartered last year and without blowing my own trumpet, the career is going well. To go back in time, I'd do exactly the same because it was useful rather than interesting and got me a decent, steady, secure career with a decent wage.
Personally, I would dearly love to have done something I'm genuinely interested in like astrophysics but the top 1% go on to PhD, live in an observatory, discover a star, become famous and come back as a consultant/ lecturer and rake it in. The other 99% do the course out of interest and struggle to find employment on the other end because it doesn't really relate to the real world.
I did an MEng in mechanical engineering and went on to get chartered last year and without blowing my own trumpet, the career is going well. To go back in time, I'd do exactly the same because it was useful rather than interesting and got me a decent, steady, secure career with a decent wage.
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