E92 M3 - Rod Bearings

E92 M3 - Rod Bearings

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Discussion

mark seeker

Original Poster:

628 posts

163 months

Thursday 14th January 2016
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I'm sure people are moaning at the very topic, for which, apologies.

I'm trying to understand how frequent an issue this really is and if anyone knows what sort of cost an S65 Rod Bearing service would be?


dom9

7,012 posts

165 months

Thursday 14th January 2016
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I'd be interested to know the frequency of the problem, what sort of mileage in generally happens at (if it's common) and the cost to sort!


Mitch911

206 posts

125 months

Friday 15th January 2016
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I'm also looking into this at the moment. Spoke to Evolve and they quote a fixed fee to replace these as a precautionary measure. I won't post price here but seemed reasonable.

pvogue

300 posts

70 months

Friday 15th January 2016
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Same issue like the M5/6 V10 then? I think mileage can range going by the thread on M5board.

Schermerhorn

3,763 posts

145 months

Friday 15th January 2016
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Same part as the S85 V10.

The V8 is just a shortened version of the same engine.

jon-

15,954 posts

172 months

Sunday 17th January 2016
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Mitch911 said:
I'm also looking into this at the moment. Spoke to Evolve and they quote a fixed fee to replace these as a precautionary measure. I won't post price here but seemed reasonable.
I'd be interested in the price.

dom9

7,012 posts

165 months

Sunday 17th January 2016
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I heard a price of £700+VAT quoted by one specialist, which doesn't seem terrible.

The question is; what's the scale of the problem? Doe they NEED doing?

RWDKurt

155 posts

202 months

Tuesday 19th January 2016
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I think the answer to your question is 'probably' - unless they have been done recently. But no-one can tell you for certain.

I have an M5, and have just had mine done as a precaution. Most of the shells showed significant wear, but thankfully the crank was fine. The engine ran perfectly before the work.

Apparently, the V8 is slightly less prone to bearing failure than the V10, but given the cost of a replacement crank runs into multiples of thousands...

FazerBoy

565 posts

106 months

Tuesday 19th January 2016
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RWDKurt said:
I think the answer to your question is 'probably' - unless they have been done recently. But no-one can tell you for certain.

I have an M5, and have just had mine done as a precaution. Most of the shells showed significant wear, but thankfully the crank was fine. The engine ran perfectly before the work.

Apparently, the V8 is slightly less prone to bearing failure than the V10, but given the cost of a replacement crank runs into multiples of thousands...
I've got an E92 M3 and I'm thinking about changing the rod bearings.

May I ask where you got yours done and whether they used OEM BMW replacement bearings and bolts or one of the other alternatives which are now becoming available...?

RWDKurt

155 posts

202 months

Tuesday 19th January 2016
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The work was done by Steve Lewis (aka Mr Vanos) in Darlington. OE shells and bolts - the shells were the later type which run less tight tolerances than the earlier design.

He's done plenty - I'd trust his judgement on choice of parts (OE vs aftermarket).

FazerBoy

565 posts

106 months

Tuesday 19th January 2016
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RWDKurt said:
The work was done by Steve Lewis (aka Mr Vanos) in Darlington. OE shells and bolts - the shells were the later type which run less tight tolerances than the earlier design.

He's done plenty - I'd trust his judgement on choice of parts (OE vs aftermarket).
Cheers, I may have a word with him...

FazerBoy

565 posts

106 months

Tuesday 19th January 2016
quotequote all
RWDKurt said:
The work was done by Steve Lewis (aka Mr Vanos) in Darlington. OE shells and bolts - the shells were the later type which run less tight tolerances than the earlier design.

He's done plenty - I'd trust his judgement on choice of parts (OE vs aftermarket).
Cheers, I may have a word with him...

Patrick Bateman

11,134 posts

130 months

Wednesday 20th January 2016
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Good luck on getting a hold of him.

cosworth330

1,190 posts

193 months

Wednesday 20th January 2016
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Reddish Motorsport have done plenty of them.

jcolley

182 posts

82 months

Wednesday 20th January 2016
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FWIW, I just had a V10 crank weld repaired and while it was at the shop, I was going to have all the rod journals ground/polished slightly to open up the clearances a bit using stock shells. However, a new company BE Bearings has been formed and working with Clevite (the OE bearing manufacturer) have developed a new bearing for the S65 and S85 which have improved oil clearance and are a tri-metal design (incorporating a soft lead layer in the Babbitt). After discussion with the crank shop, they recommended restoring the damaged journal to original specs, leaving the rest of the journals alone, and using the BE bearings. In their opinion, it didn't matter one way or the other which side you increase the clearance on, journal or shell, as long as it was done on one or the other and all were consistent.

Not sure about the policy here for commercial links, so I'll just leave it say do a Google search for "BE Bearings"

Max Maxasson

307 posts

139 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
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It would take a brave man to buy these untested undersized bearings from a couple of chancers trying to cash in on the bearing hysteria in the USA market.

jcolley

182 posts

82 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
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Max Maxasson said:
It would take a brave man to buy these untested undersized bearings from a couple of chancers trying to cash in on the bearing hysteria in the USA market.
Or one who actually "builds" engines instead of just assembling them from a bin of parts and understands the measurements he's taken himself to properly assemble the engine. The crank shop I use for my repairs is the same that makes the stroker cranks for nearly everyone and recommended the bearings over paying them more money to grind every journal. They do however spec larger oil clearance for every stroker crank they build since they have to grind every journal anyway.

The NA 6.0L S85 stroker over here that recorded the highest top speed for a sedan ever in the Texas Mile event was built with the same oil clearance as what BE spec'd, albeit by having the journals sized slightly under and using aftermarket rods with stock big-end bore diameter. The engine was just torn down after 15k miles and the bearings looked brand new. I can't understand the logic behind the opposition to providing that same clearance by making the bearing larger instead of the journal smaller.

What amazes me is how so many people jump to attack the guys that developed the specs for these when it's absolutely normal practice on every American made engine to offer multiple size bearings and allow the builder their choice of clearances. For some reason when that same logic is applied to BMW M engines, it's heresy and conspiracy.

And I guess I don't consider it hysteria considering I have 7 engines to rebuild at the moment all with spun rod bearings. Everyone believes what they want I guess, I just tend to go with more of what I see than what I read.

Shaoxter

3,576 posts

80 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
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Max Maxasson said:
It would take a brave man to buy these untested undersized bearings from a couple of chancers trying to cash in on the bearing hysteria in the USA market.
laugh

jcolley everyone appreciates your informative posts and I'm sure there's a science behind the development of the BE bearings, but I won't be convinced until there's solid evidence. As an analogy, would you really want to be the first person to undergo laser eye surgery without any long term test results available?

Meanwhile I'll just drive around blissfully in denial of the rod bearing issues driving

jcolley

182 posts

82 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
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Shaoxter said:
laugh

jcolley everyone appreciates your informative posts and I'm sure there's a science behind the development of the BE bearings, but I won't be convinced until there's solid evidence. As an analogy, would you really want to be the first person to undergo laser eye surgery without any long term test results available?

Meanwhile I'll just drive around blissfully in denial of the rod bearing issues driving
I'll let you know in 15k miles. wink If they look better than the WPC treated 702/703s I just pulled at 14k (which looked of arse BTW), I'm a happy camper. I am pretty confident they can't possibly be worse than the 088/089s I pull from engiens now at 60-100k.

As I said though, the only part that's uncharted here is the use in M engines. If I weren't confident, I wouldn't risk my reputation on engines I sell. I actually make less money on them going with BEs. Each to his own though, I can just hope that we turn around the reliability of the two platforms and therein their resale value. That's really the reason I started getting into this. They are fantastic cars, the M3/5/6 in their NA glory and we'll never see anything so bold from BMW again. They deserve better quality components and assembly.

Max Maxasson

307 posts

139 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
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Shaoxter said:
Meanwhile I'll just drive around blissfully in denial of the rod bearing issues driving
Good plan...If there ever is a rash of failed E9x M3 engines in the UK then that will probably be time to consider revisiting that plan.