2nd hand CSL and Warranty
Discussion
Looking at getting a second hand CSL and got a couple of questions I hope someone may be able to answer for me...
There has been lots of talk about the increased cost of the M car warranty - can someone tell me the cost of the 12 month BMW extended warranty on a CSL?
Secondly a lot of the CSL's have had brake conversions and some have been de-catted - where do BMW stand on the warranty issues with these cars?
Any advice welcome! Thanks
There has been lots of talk about the increased cost of the M car warranty - can someone tell me the cost of the 12 month BMW extended warranty on a CSL?
Secondly a lot of the CSL's have had brake conversions and some have been de-catted - where do BMW stand on the warranty issues with these cars?
Any advice welcome! Thanks
The 12 month warranty on a CSL is £1050 provided the mileage is less than 60,000 (which it will be).
Brakes and exhaust mods have had no affect on warranty from my experience, by law they only affect the parts that they replace (i.e. you cannot therefore claim on BMW's Warranty for problems with your aftermarket brakes or exhaust). If you removed the cats on a CSL you would give the engine managenent system a headache (unless you had it reprogrammed) so that's one reason why the recommened route is to replace the OEM 200 Cell cats with 100 cell race cats, this provides an extra 6-8 bhp and much improved mid-range response. The AP Brake upgrade fits into the OEM system without a hiccup and therefore runs as reliably as the OEM setup, hence in almost 3 years of use either I maintain them (replace discs and pads) or my local BMW dealer does so along with other servicing items.
Brakes and exhaust mods have had no affect on warranty from my experience, by law they only affect the parts that they replace (i.e. you cannot therefore claim on BMW's Warranty for problems with your aftermarket brakes or exhaust). If you removed the cats on a CSL you would give the engine managenent system a headache (unless you had it reprogrammed) so that's one reason why the recommened route is to replace the OEM 200 Cell cats with 100 cell race cats, this provides an extra 6-8 bhp and much improved mid-range response. The AP Brake upgrade fits into the OEM system without a hiccup and therefore runs as reliably as the OEM setup, hence in almost 3 years of use either I maintain them (replace discs and pads) or my local BMW dealer does so along with other servicing items.
... @ 60k miles the cost of a warranty rises to £1,868 and steering and suspension are excluded (on top of the £250 excess per claim). Warranties cannot be applied to cars with >100k miles.
In an attempt to realise the 'power of the people' I recently sent the following email to Jim O'Donnell, MD, BMW UK:
>>>>>>>>>>
Jim,
As a serious car – and BMW - enthusiast it was with much dismay that I discovered recent changes to BMW’s UK extended warranties, particularly those on M-cars.
I have purchased new BMWs (including an E46 M3) – and being in my twenties I am looking forward to purchasing many more. However, I was just about to buy a used E39 M5 prior to discovering the warranty changes – and I have therefore now decided against it. I also have an E90 M3 on order but I am now concerned that it will be unattractive on the used market - and therefore depreciate fast due to the warranty changes.
BMWs are built to last and built for high mileage – and £1,868/yr to put a warranty on a 3 year old 60k mile M3/M5 (with a £250 excess + steering and suspension exclusions) sends out all the wrong messages and seriously discourages people from purchasing both new and used cars.
Porsche will put a fully comprehensive warranty on a 9 year old 125k mile Porsche 911 Turbo (which was £100k new) for a mere £725 (without excess or steering/suspension exclusions) – even if the warranty has not been continuously maintained since new (unlike BMW). This is a great vote of confidence from Porsche UK in the reliability and ease-of-ownership of their cars and makes BMW’s extended warranty look extremely poor value – and does not send out the right customer messages about your commitment to used M-cars.
I know of MANY people who share my view – and are now switching out to other marques. I look forward to returning to BMW as a customer once you have reinstated good value extended warranties – in the meantime I will take the opportunity to try out a few marques that I otherwise wouldn’t.
Your intervention would be much appreciated – and please do not hesitate to get in touch if you would like to further discuss any of the above.
<<<<<<<<<<
... and received the following response from one of his staff:
>>>>>>>>>>
Dear Mr xxxxx
Thank you for your recent communication to Mr Jim O'Donnell, Managing Director at BMW UK.
The actions taken, as with any insured product are based on historic costs and the impact these have on the fund held by the Insurance Underwriter. Whilst BMW have in the past priced M product the same as its equivalent BMW model derivative, we believed that this was unfair to these owners who represent a lower warranty cost base.
None of our insured warranty products are profit making and the changes reflect our cost prediction based on actual historic trends.
With regard to the insurance excess we have introduced, this was done to keep the premium as low as possible.
Whilst we are very sorry that you have had cause to complain, we regret that it will not be possible to reduce the cost of these warranties in the future unless actual costs reduce.
A further review will be undertaken in six months time to see if the situation has changed.
Yours sincerely
xxxxxxx
BMW UK
Customer Service Manager
Ellesfield Avenue
Bracknell RG12 8TA
In an attempt to realise the 'power of the people' I recently sent the following email to Jim O'Donnell, MD, BMW UK:
>>>>>>>>>>
Jim,
As a serious car – and BMW - enthusiast it was with much dismay that I discovered recent changes to BMW’s UK extended warranties, particularly those on M-cars.
I have purchased new BMWs (including an E46 M3) – and being in my twenties I am looking forward to purchasing many more. However, I was just about to buy a used E39 M5 prior to discovering the warranty changes – and I have therefore now decided against it. I also have an E90 M3 on order but I am now concerned that it will be unattractive on the used market - and therefore depreciate fast due to the warranty changes.
BMWs are built to last and built for high mileage – and £1,868/yr to put a warranty on a 3 year old 60k mile M3/M5 (with a £250 excess + steering and suspension exclusions) sends out all the wrong messages and seriously discourages people from purchasing both new and used cars.
Porsche will put a fully comprehensive warranty on a 9 year old 125k mile Porsche 911 Turbo (which was £100k new) for a mere £725 (without excess or steering/suspension exclusions) – even if the warranty has not been continuously maintained since new (unlike BMW). This is a great vote of confidence from Porsche UK in the reliability and ease-of-ownership of their cars and makes BMW’s extended warranty look extremely poor value – and does not send out the right customer messages about your commitment to used M-cars.
I know of MANY people who share my view – and are now switching out to other marques. I look forward to returning to BMW as a customer once you have reinstated good value extended warranties – in the meantime I will take the opportunity to try out a few marques that I otherwise wouldn’t.
Your intervention would be much appreciated – and please do not hesitate to get in touch if you would like to further discuss any of the above.
<<<<<<<<<<
... and received the following response from one of his staff:
>>>>>>>>>>
Dear Mr xxxxx
Thank you for your recent communication to Mr Jim O'Donnell, Managing Director at BMW UK.
The actions taken, as with any insured product are based on historic costs and the impact these have on the fund held by the Insurance Underwriter. Whilst BMW have in the past priced M product the same as its equivalent BMW model derivative, we believed that this was unfair to these owners who represent a lower warranty cost base.
None of our insured warranty products are profit making and the changes reflect our cost prediction based on actual historic trends.
With regard to the insurance excess we have introduced, this was done to keep the premium as low as possible.
Whilst we are very sorry that you have had cause to complain, we regret that it will not be possible to reduce the cost of these warranties in the future unless actual costs reduce.
A further review will be undertaken in six months time to see if the situation has changed.
Yours sincerely
xxxxxxx
BMW UK
Customer Service Manager
Ellesfield Avenue
Bracknell RG12 8TA
Thanks for the replies - very useful.
DoctorD you are quite right - the cars I have seen had the cats replaced not removed. Just what I wanted to hear about the brake conversion too!
As for the warranty costs, I agree with you wrn, its very disappointing but I don't think it would stop me buying one. When you consider the warranty @ £1050/year plus the £250 excess it makes me wonder whether it is worthwhile getting the warranty at all.
Perhaps better to save the cash and pay for things when they go wrong? Or are there expensive bits likely to go bang?
DoctorD you are quite right - the cars I have seen had the cats replaced not removed. Just what I wanted to hear about the brake conversion too!
As for the warranty costs, I agree with you wrn, its very disappointing but I don't think it would stop me buying one. When you consider the warranty @ £1050/year plus the £250 excess it makes me wonder whether it is worthwhile getting the warranty at all.
Perhaps better to save the cash and pay for things when they go wrong? Or are there expensive bits likely to go bang?
Agreed. I think we need to get over the "M3 engine goes bang" problem, this was fixed by the 2004 crankshaft bearing shells recall (which the M3 CSL had fixed from the start).
Yes there is a chance the engine could fail, but this is no different to any other complex mechanical part on any car. I'm sure BMW would step in to some extent if the car had no warranty but a FbmwSH (but there's another can of worms..)
Yes there is a chance the engine could fail, but this is no different to any other complex mechanical part on any car. I'm sure BMW would step in to some extent if the car had no warranty but a FbmwSH (but there's another can of worms..)
"Yes there is a chance the engine could fail, but this is no different to any other complex mechanical part on any car. I'm sure BMW would step in to some extent if the car had no warranty but a FbmwSH (but there's another can of worms..)"
Until BMW started to display utter contempt for their customers by putting the warranty prices up to £1800 a year, I would have agreed. I ran BMWs for years and loved them and trusted that if something went wrong it would be fixed, but there is no way I would trust them now. No way at all.
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