M3 CSL opinions please.....

[bennno]

I would have to say a caterham is a more challenging rwd track car and there is a R500 which frequents Donnington which is by far and away the fastest car out when its there.

If you are after sideways motoring DD then have you removed the cups from your CSL?

I have found that the Monaro VXR which replaced my CSL is a much softer tool but fun wise its in a different league, I have never owned a car which will go so sideways.

benno

Edited by bennno on Sunday 18th June 18:39

[mrontheropes]

bennno said:

If you are after sideways motoring DD then have you removed the cups from your CSL?

You don't really need to, the Cups are fine for drifting on wet or dry. Don't last very long though, hahah

[richycsl]

What is the average lifespan of a cup tyre? I ask because I watched a dvd called the best motoring endurance challenge where the CSL was shod with cup tyres and the other cars with bridgestone potenza re70 tyres for two 20 minute sessions of hard driving in 32 degree heat (other cars nsx-r, spec c suburu, evo8mr, s2000, integra r, rx8). The cars with bridgestones at the end of the challenge, their tyres were ripped apart/melted at the edges unsafe to be driven home and yet the cups on the CSL didn't even look like they had worn to the wear indicators.

Edited by richycsl on Thursday 15th June 17:40

[richycsl]

bennno said:

I would have to say a caterham is a more challenging rwd track car and there is a R500 which frequents Donnington which is by far and away the fastest car out when its there.

If you are after sideways motoring DD then have you removed the cups from your CSL?

I have found that the Monaro VXR which replaced my CSL is a much softer tool but fun wise its in a different league, I have never owned a car which will go so sideways.

Regards

Ben Hiscock

I would love a go in one but how can a monaro be fun as a drivers car its so heavy? I would have thought it would be more at home on long motorway journeys.

Edited by richycsl on Thursday 15th June 17:38

[bennno]

richycsl said:

bennno said:

I would have to say a caterham is a more challenging rwd track car and there is a R500 which frequents Donnington which is by far and away the fastest car out when its there.

If you are after sideways motoring DD then have you removed the cups from your CSL?

I have found that the Monaro VXR which replaced my CSL is a much softer tool but fun wise its in a different league, I have never owned a car which will go so sideways.

Regards

Ben Hiscock

I would love a go in one but how can a monaro be fun as a drivers car its so heavy? I would have thought it would be more at home on long motorway journeys.

Edited by richycsl on Thursday 15th June 17:38

its only 9% heavier (150kgs) than a standard M3.

but it has 50% more torque and 20% more power.

its not as scalpel sharp, but it goes sideways nicely - plus you can buy a good 04 car for the price of a 2001 M3.

Having owned both I dont argue that the CSL is way sharper and capable of turning in a much faster lap - but its fun nevertheless.

Bennno

[Dave Dax builder]

When comparing the CSL with the Little Lotus and whining which country or continent each is quickest on, don't forget to add the time for delivering three passengers from one end to the other of a tight and twisty slalom......Now which one is quickest?
Completely different cars and impossible to compare. Guess which I have, along with the wife and two kids?

Edited by Dave Dax builder on Friday 16th June 19:39

[bennno]

Dave Dax builder said:

When comparing the CSL with the Little Lotus and whining which country or continent each is quickest on, don't forget to add the time for delivering three passengers from one end to the other of a tight and twisty slalom......Now which one is quickest?
Completely different cars and impossible to compare. Guess which I have, along with the wife and two kids?

Edited by Dave Dax builder on Friday 16th June 19:39

I dont understand when would you be doing timed slaloms with the wife and kids in the car?

[outnumbered]

bennno said:

I have found that the Monaro VXR which replaced my CSL is a much softer tool but fun wise its in a different league, I have never owned a car which will go so sideways.

I test drove a Monaro VXR before I bought my E46 M3 and I really wanted to like it, but I didn't It was certainly fast in a straight line, but just didn't have the precision feel of the M3. I'm sure they're great fun in the right context though.

[bennno]

outnumbered said:

bennno said:

I have found that the Monaro VXR which replaced my CSL is a much softer tool but fun wise its in a different league, I have never owned a car which will go so sideways.

I test drove a Monaro VXR before I bought my E46 M3 and I really wanted to like it, but I didn't It was certainly fast in a straight line, but just didn't have the precision feel of the M3. I'm sure they're great fun in the right context though.

yes, i know where you are coming from with that comment. the first time i drove one i discounted it for that very reason and bought the CSL.

its worth taking a long test drive as the gearbox and low revving engine take a bit of getting used to

Bennno

Edited by bennno on Monday 19th June 12:40

[Dave Dax builder]

bennno said:

Dave Dax builder said:

When comparing the CSL with the Little Lotus and whining which country or continent each is quickest on, don't forget to add the time for delivering three passengers from one end to the other of a tight and twisty slalom......Now which one is quickest?
Completely different cars and impossible to compare. Guess which I have, along with the wife and two kids?

Edited by Dave Dax builder on Friday 16th June 19:39

I dont understand when would you be doing timed slaloms with the wife and kids in the car?

Horses for courses. But you get my point.................Don't you?

[s3am]

I really like the CSL, fantastic handling great engine/noise but surely the biggest problem with it for Pistonheaders is the lack of a manual gearbox (and I know its a 'sequential manual' but its not really), or even the option of one.

Doesn't this annoy those of you lucky enough to have one? Would you have countenanced a SMG CSL if they had manufactured a manual one?

[nickbell3]

Get a CSL on track, DSC off in S6, flicking up and down the box, blipping on the downchage. Oh and dont forget your ears bleeding at 7.5rpm!!! I dont miss a manual and i had one in my E46 M3

[ghiblicup]

SMG makes so much sense on the track I love it. On the twisties I do prefer a manual though.

[topboss]

bennno said:

Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
Gallardo 1.25.8
BMW Z4 M 1.26.0
Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
Lotus Exige 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9
Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
TVR 350C 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0

Top gear stig laps...

Bennno

Don't forget both the GT3 and CSL were wet laps.....

[nickbell3]

That top gear lap time chart is pants, utter toilet. So many people say "its not that quick" The reality is the CSL would only be beaten by the Lambo, exige S. Most of the time it beats GT3, especially 'round the 'ring.

[nbetts]

I owned a CSL for about 6 months - It was 6 months old when I picked it up and had covered 1300 miles.

It was in mint condition and was owned by the Dealer Principal of a BMW Dealer in Canterbury.

There are plenty of people on bm3w (doctord and Zod) that are knowledgable on the M3 CSL subject but here is my 2p worth.

For
Nigh on the same pace as a GT3 - Yes it really is that fast
Practicality
Not as expensive as a GT3
Nice to have a Sequential box
Noise of engine
Noise of Induction/Exhaust
Cup Tyres

Against
A bit fragile to be honest (not the Engine or Gearbox) but the Clutch, rear-diff and Suspension Bushes
Rubbish Brakes (for the Track anyway - need upgrading - those in the know would have upgraded already)
The Steering wheel does bobble (had mine replaced FOC)


I needed to adjust my driving style when first getting into the CSL having driven 911's for a few years prior to getting the CSL. The CSL does not have the rear grip of a 911 - this is does not mean it is a disadvantage - I just needed to adjust the way I drove the car.

In my opinion if you have the budget for a MK1 GT3 at around £40k or so - you should really have a look at the CSL - with an open-mind preferably - they are quite excellent really.

I have gone back to 911's - I just feel more at home in them but I will miss my CSL for as long as I have blood pumping around my veins. I will probably own one in the future again if BMW can work out why the Clutch keeps wearing prematurly.

[Zod]

s3am said:

I know its a 'sequential manual' but its not really

Er, that's precisely what it is. It is exactly the same manual box as the normal manual M3 with electro-hydraulic activation. You might not like it, but it is a manual gearbox.

To drive, an SMG car has evrything in common with a manual and nothing with an auto. I have a 330i auto Touring courtesy car for a few days and I am forever cursing at the lack of control I have compared with SMG or a manual. I'm not referring so much to control over gear changes, as to control over clutch bite point (which any experienced SMG driver will know), engine braking and flywheel effect.

[The Dude]

Zod said:

To drive, an SMG car has evrything in common with a manual and nothing with an auto.

[ibroker]

Im just about to buy another. I only had my first one for 3 months and knew when I
saw it driving away I had done the wrong thing selling it.

What does a clutch cost to replace and how many miles shold you see from it. The one I am getting has 20k on her

[bennno]

The Dude said:

Zod said:

To drive, an SMG car has evrything in common with a manual and nothing with an auto.

apart from no driver control over the missing clutch pedal or gearstick.

i would argue that the auto mode has something in common with an auto?

Bennno