M3 CSL opinions please.....

M3 CSL opinions please.....

Author
Discussion

m12_nathan

5,138 posts

262 months

Tuesday 20th June 2006
quotequote all
ibroker said:
Im just about to buy another. I only had my first one for 3 months and knew when I
saw it driving away I had done the wrong thing selling it.

What does a clutch cost to replace and how many miles shold you see from it. The one I am getting has 20k on her


Clutch should be under warrenty still. I had one done at 10k miles, now on 21k and it's now slurring a little bit, I'm waiting on BMW finding a proper fix before getting it sorted.

Zod

35,295 posts

261 months

Tuesday 20th June 2006
quotequote all
bennno said:
The Dude said:
Zod said:

To drive, an SMG car has evrything in common with a manual and nothing with an auto.




apart from no driver control over the missing clutch pedal or gearstick.

i would argue that the auto mode has something in common with an auto?

Bennno
The auto mode is crap, so as far as I'm concerned, it is irrelevant. As for driver control, I don't understand the gearstick reference, unless you mean that the SMG stick being sequential cannot be snicked around the bend from fourth to second, but two clicks will put change down two gears without having to engage the intermediate gear, so the same level of control is there and you do have control over the clutch. I'll grant you it's not the same as having a clutch pedal, but you can feel and influence the operation of the clutch.

The Dude

6,546 posts

250 months

Tuesday 20th June 2006
quotequote all
bennno said:
The Dude said:
Zod said:

To drive, an SMG car has evrything in common with a manual and nothing with an auto.




apart from no driver control over the missing clutch pedal or gearstick.

i would argue that the auto mode has something in common with an auto?

Bennno


Its nothing like a proper auto. It feels more like a manual to drive. A manual with no clutch, yes, but a manual.

Even in auto mode it's nothing like an auto (but as Zod says, it's awful and not worth bothering with anyway).

m12_nathan

5,138 posts

262 months

Tuesday 20th June 2006
quotequote all
Exactly, I once used auto to see what it was like, laster about 3 minutes before sequential was back in use. Rubbish in auto mode!

richycsl

3,741 posts

220 months

Tuesday 20th June 2006
quotequote all
Clutch problem has been solved now hasn't it?

m12_nathan

5,138 posts

262 months

Tuesday 20th June 2006
quotequote all
Not sure yet, to my knowledge there is no one who has had the clutch problem that has had the new smg software and had the problem go away, all those saying it has fixed their problem have also had new clutches at the same time. We need those people to do another 10k miles really...

ibroker

658 posts

261 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
M12 Nathan

Can you summarise the clutch problems in short for me. I was unaware
of any issues the car had

dtmpower

3,972 posts

248 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
Just a little aside - everyone seems to praise the SMG for driving etc , why didn't/can't bmw offer the SMG system but incorporating a "manual" clutch pedal - surely this would be the best of both worlds ?

mrontheropes

1,435 posts

249 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
m12_nathan said:
Not sure yet, to my knowledge there is no one who has had the clutch problem that has had the new smg software and had the problem go away, all those saying it has fixed their problem have also had new clutches at the same time. We need those people to do another 10k miles really...


No, I'm in the first group (not had a new clutch but problem fixed for now).

Time will tell if it's fixed long-term, as the teach-in (performed as part of the software upgrade) could have helped a lot.



Edited by mrontheropes on Wednesday 21st June 09:28

The Dude

6,546 posts

250 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
ibroker said:
M12 Nathan

Can you summarise the clutch problems in short for me. I was unaware
of any issues the car had


The problem manifests itself as slipping when you change gear. Some cars have it worse than others, some not at all. Originally BMW were just giving people new clutches but when cars that had had new a new clutch started seeing the problem again after relatively few miles, BMW started to scratch their chins and sort of put a halt to replacing them, concentrating on the idea that its a bug/issue with the SMG software and not the physical clutch itself.

A new updated to the SMG software is making its way to dealers and several people have had the update. Some (most?) have reported a cure but there have been one or two cars that have had it and seen little or no change.

I'm one of the people that had a new clutch AND the new software (under warranty). My car is 100% now but its difficult to seperate the effect of the new clutch from the effect of the new software, for me personally.

BMW are still working on it.

(That's my understanding, Nathan, Zod or Doctor D might be able to correct/enhance it )

Zod

35,295 posts

261 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
The Dude said:

(That's my understanding, Nathan, Zod or Doctor D might be able to correct/enhance it )

I can't add to that. Just hope it doesn't start happening to the M5s!

The Dude

6,546 posts

250 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
Zod said:
The Dude said:

(That's my understanding, Nathan, Zod or Doctor D might be able to correct/enhance it )

I can't add to that. Just hope it doesn't start happening to the M5s!


That would be interesting.

Still, it's encouraging to see that BMW are on the case, it's only a matter of time before they nail it I reckon.

MrOnTheRopes

1,435 posts

249 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
Are BMW 'on the case' though?

There was a rumour they were ages ago, but not heard anything since.

There is no documentation to suggest this latest update has any fixes for this problem, and there is no PUMA on the clutch issue.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the people who are seeing an apparently fix right now (like me) are doing so because of the teach-in procedure being carried out. In time it'll start to slip again (my theory).

As I said, time will tell......

s3am

1,383 posts

255 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
Zod said:
s3am said:
I know its a 'sequential manual' but its not really
Er, that's precisely what it is. It is exactly the same manual box as the normal manual M3 with electro-hydraulic activation. You might not like it, but it is a manual gearbox.

To drive, an SMG car has evrything in common with a manual and nothing with an auto. I have a 330i auto Touring courtesy car for a few days and I am forever cursing at the lack of control I have compared with SMG or a manual. I'm not referring so much to control over gear changes, as to control over clutch bite point (which any experienced SMG driver will know), engine braking and flywheel effect.


When I say its not really a manual, I mean it doesn't have a gearlever (and clutch pedal). But we're splitting hairs arguing over that. I do like it and I'm not having a go, only interested if many of you would have had one with a gearstick if they had built it?

Edited by s3am on Wednesday 21st June 10:06

MrOnTheRopes

1,435 posts

249 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
s3am said:
only interested if many of you would have had one with a gearstick if they had built it?


Not in a million years. The SMG is superb and perfect for me Actually moving the gearstick between each slot does nothing for me.

s3am

1,383 posts

255 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
MrOnTheRopes said:
s3am said:
only interested if many of you would have had one with a gearstick if they had built it?


Not in a million years. The SMG is superb and perfect for me Actually moving the gearstick between each slot does nothing for me.



Cool

m12_nathan

5,138 posts

262 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
iBroker - as the dude said really.

Although it shows as slipping the clutch itsaelf is fine when they remove and replace it (though the flywheel on mine had blue hotspots on it), I think it is more that the SMG software doesn't adjust for clutch wear properly and therefore doesn't engage the clutch quickly enough which under full throttle sounds just like slipping or slurring.

BMW have released new software and have also approached the maker of the clutch.

The Dude

6,546 posts

250 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
MrOnTheRopes said:
s3am said:
only interested if many of you would have had one with a gearstick if they had built it?


Not in a million years. The SMG is superb and perfect for me Actually moving the gearstick between each slot does nothing for me.



Must admit, I didn't relish the SMG at first but once you get used to driving it, it makes perfect sense. I had to drive a 330d manual as a courtesy car when mine was in for the clutch and I thought it would be nice to drive with traditional gears again but actually the opposite was true.

Zod

35,295 posts

261 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
My first M3 was a manual and I loved it (apart from the notchy change into second in winter - I was in Germany), so I was pretty wary of SMG, but quickly grew to love it.

ibroker

658 posts

261 months

Wednesday 21st June 2006
quotequote all
The SMG box is the main thing that draws me back to the car. The way it blips the throttle when coming down the gears, changes when its told to.

And that sound. I cant wait

I replaced my original CSL with a tiptronic Porsche. F~~~ing useless