The canal / narrowboat thread.

[eldar]

Simpo Two said:

Financially perhaps, but hiring a boat isn't the same as owning one. If you own one you can use it whenever you want, leave your stuff on it etc. If you hire one you get (generally) a fixed week but choose any waterway. I like both.

There is a third option, join a preservation society for an old boat. Costs almost nothing, apart from time, and is a fascinating experience.

http://nb-president.org.uk/

[john2443]

Shakermaker said:

Pontcysyllte Aqueduct isn't that unpronounceable

I guess some the others would be..

Falkirk Wheel
Wast Hill Tunnel?
Standedge Tunnels

Falkirk wheel is too new to be in the original 7 wonders, so maybe there are now 8!

Pontcysyllte
Standedge
Caen Hill
Barton Aqueduct
Anderton lift
Burnley embankment
Bingley 5 rise

[dhutch]

Terry is by far not the first or last person to boat over the channel. When my grandfather built his boat, now out boat, the design including the potential for a channel crossing although it is yet to do it.

My first clearly dateable memory is the boat being launched when I was not quite 4yo. I've then gone on to take the boat all over the country with freinds and family, as well as making freinds at uni with contacts in the historic boat circles and boating on a various old boats including a couple of working boat pairs and wooden tar boat with a hotbulb semi-diesal. Something like 9litre single cylinder 2stoke, kickstart, hit and miss governer. Our boat is steam powered, if not historic, which adds another dimension.

Not always relaxing, but always a lot of fun.


Daniel

[Ayahuasca]

Canal boating is on my list.

What hull maintenance in required on these things? Owners of steel yachts spend their lives in fear of rust and catalytic corrosion. Is it the same here?

Is there an optimum size for say a couple and kids?

How can a perfectly built canal boat be distinguished from a a poorly built one?

[silverfoxcc]

I would love to have a canal holiday.......and then i saw the price

so 7 days looking at lovely scenery at 4mph possibly in damp conditions! visiting pubs and having very small quarters, doing all the cooking,cleaning,washing,and a very simple sewage and bath system

OR

7 days on a cruise ship. perhaps plenty of kids ( but the last one we didnt notice them, even our lot!!,getting someone to do the cooking.cleaning and entertainment provided ( this summer being an exception) a good chance of decent weather


For roughly the same price


You know i am still weighing all this up

[Equus]

Ayahuasca said:

Owners of steel yachts spend their lives in fear of rust and catalytic corrosion. Is it the same here?

Don't underestimate how much more corrosive saltwater is, compared to fresh.

[john2443]

Ayahuasca said:

Canal boating is on my list.

What hull maintenance in required on these things? Owners of steel yachts spend their lives in fear of rust and catalytic corrosion. Is it the same here?

Is there an optimum size for say a couple and kids?

How can a perfectly built canal boat be distinguished from a a poorly built one?

Every 5(?) years they have to be lifted out of the water and have their bottoms inspected and blacked.

How long? Probably the longest you can afford, mooring licencing are paid depending on length. You'd get 2 adults and 2 kids on a 40 foot boat for holiday, not live aboard, but longer would be more comfortable.
If you want to do the Leeds and Liverpool max length is 60 foot (72 in most other places)

[dhutch]

Sounds about right, we use good quality paint and repaint after 4 years usually, sometimes five. Others using cheaper paint will only last 2-3 years. Typically it's the waterline that goes, but if permanently plugged into a shoreline hookup you can get galvanic corrosion. Magnesium anodes are fitted to protect the prop,shaft and other other stern gear and often also at the bow.

Cabin on ours is fine every 8 years or so. Otherwise it's much like a house, or more likely holiday cottage, just keeping on top of it and replacing fixtures and fittings as they age.


Daniel

[dhutch]

Boats then have an four yearly 'boat safety scheme' inspection a bit like an MOT which focuses on gas and electric safety, engine mounts and basic oil separation setup.

Boats over 20 year will typically then need a five yearly hill survey for their insurance, to avoid unexpected sinking.

Daniel

[227bhp]

Simpo Two said:

2thumbs said:

I finally got to go on this earlier this year, the Anderton boat lift, built in 1875, that lifts boats from the river Weaver up onto the Trent and Mersey canal. Unfortunately it's plagued with mechanical issues and parts availability so is often out of action for maintenance. Only one lift was working when we went up and we had to wait a while for that to be repaired. It was great though, there's some really interesting old engineering we get to play with as boaters

One of the seven wonders of the canal world. But I thought it needed both sides to work, as they counterbalance...

It's been electrified.

I've pondered about barging for a while, but the OH is not keen. I did wonder if the constant put put put of an asthmatic little diesel would spoil it, get on my tits or enhance it, it seems a shame to spoil that beautiful silence that is all around you in the countryside. I got to pondering over an electric powered barge, I think it would work quite well, weight or space for batteries not much of a problem, plenty of stop off points along the way for a recharge and almost silent. I think the Standedge barge is electric.

[227bhp]

john2443 said:

Shakermaker said:

Pontcysyllte Aqueduct isn't that unpronounceable

I guess some the others would be..

Falkirk Wheel
Wast Hill Tunnel?
Standedge Tunnels

Falkirk wheel is too new to be in the original 7 wonders, so maybe there are now 8!

Pontcysyllte
Standedge
Caen Hill
Barton Aqueduct
Anderton lift
Burnley embankment
Bingley 5 rise

Standedge was a huge cock up from start to finish. Massively over budget, many men lost their lives, the first architect was sacked for being useless, they came from both sides of the Pennines and missed in the middle so it's got a dog leg halfway to join it up! That's just from memory, I think it was worse than that, but it's a few years since I was there.

[Shakermaker]

silverfoxcc said:

I would love to have a canal holiday.......and then i saw the price

so 7 days looking at lovely scenery at 4mph possibly in damp conditions! visiting pubs and having very small quarters, doing all the cooking,cleaning,washing,and a very simple sewage and bath system

OR

7 days on a cruise ship. perhaps plenty of kids ( but the last one we didnt notice them, even our lot!!,getting someone to do the cooking.cleaning and entertainment provided ( this summer being an exception) a good chance of decent weather


For roughly the same price


You know i am still weighing all this up

Yes, that's fair if you have just two of you going maybe

But the price you pay is not "per person" usually, it is "per boat" and you can put on as many as you like. which for me has worked out cheaply, with a group of mates doing it we split the cost 10 ways and it was fine.

[dhutch]

227bhp said:

It's been electrified.

I've pondered about barging for a while, but the OH is not keen. I did wonder if the constant put put put of an asthmatic little diesel would spoil it, get on my tits or enhance it, it seems a shame to spoil that beautiful silence that is all around you in the countryside. I got to pondering over an electric powered barge, I think it would work quite well, weight or space for batteries not much of a problem, plenty of stop off points along the way for a recharge and almost silent. I think the Standedge barge is electric.

Yes, it still typically operates in counter balance mode on the hyd rams (oil filled this time, not salty polluted river water as per the first system) but they have the option to raise the caissons individually just using raw electrical power to pump one up. Both can therefore be seen at the bottom at time, although they cant raise both, as they do not have the hyd oil volume.

Electric requires a source and or a lot of storage, in terms of batteries, the weight is not an issue but the cost is. One of the reasons for moving to self-propelled passage of Standedge is that the batteries of the tugs repeatedly failed prematurely and therefore cost a fortune to maintain, presumably due to being poorly spec'd, but if the space and topology available precluded suitable re-spec'ing them using the tugs just for the visitor viewings is a practical solution to the problem.

227bhp said:

Standedge was a huge cock up from start to finish. Massively over budget, many men lost their lives, the first architect was sacked for being useless, they came from both sides of the Pennines and missed in the middle so it's got a dog leg halfway to join it up! That's just from memory, I think it was worse than that, but it's a few years since I was there.

Indeed. We did it with our boat went they where on the electric tug system but already looking to move away from it*, lovely in terms of a linear cave of interest, but hopeless as a tunnel. Somewhere I have read one of the engineers report on the completion, to paraphrase is says 'this is the worse tunnel I have every seen, however, its just about conceivable a boat could use it' praise indeed!

• During the trip, along with the elec convoy, a diesel boat went through doing the testing for air quality.

Now boats go through under their own power with a chaperone who has a CO meter and the like. Harder work but less prangs! The does however exclude steam as far as I know (although we do the shorter and ventilated Harecaste with no issues) so we would still be elec tugged I guess. The steam boat based in the area has a fitted watercooled diesel gen-set and a large ac drive motor that can be clutch in in-place of the steam engine for the tunnel.


Daniel

[Simpo Two]

227bhp said:

Standedge was a huge cock up from start to finish. Massively over budget, many men lost their lives, the first architect was sacked for being useless...

That wasn't uncommon in the canal mania days. And starting from both ends halved the time (in theory).

[Simpo Two]

silverfoxcc said:

I would love to have a canal holiday.......and then i saw the price

so 7 days looking at lovely scenery at 4mph possibly in damp conditions! visiting pubs and having very small quarters, doing all the cooking,cleaning,washing,and a very simple sewage and bath system

OR

7 days on a cruise ship. perhaps plenty of kids ( but the last one we didnt notice them, even our lot!!,getting someone to do the cooking.cleaning and entertainment provided ( this summer being an exception) a good chance of decent weather


For roughly the same price


You know i am still weighing all this up

Never has the phrase 'chalk and cheese' been more appropriate!

I've done two cruises with P&O, and quite a few narrow-boat/cruiser holidays.

One is a floating luxury Travelodge, on which you are stuck between ports, and the time ashore is limited. It's a relatively easy way to visit foreign countries and everything is done for you, but after a few days the novelty of eating 3-course meals in a posh restaurant for breakfast, lunch and dinner starts to pall. You see mostly sea and ports.

The other is luxury mobile camping. You have everything you need, your own little house around you, you can stop when you want, eat when you want, get off and explore whenever you want. It's about going slowly, watching the scenery go by and becoming detached from time, people and the busy world. Some people never get that.

After two cruises I feel the 'cruising' box is ticked, but the boating box will never be finished.

Price - not only work it out per person, but also note that rates are much lower off season. Some of the best boating weather is in May and late Sept/early Oct. If the tradition of a narrowboat on a canal is just too much of a step, try a cruiser on the Broads or Thames.

PS Narrowboats/cruisers aren't damp, no need to wash clothes as you take enough for the week, and only a tidy-up needed at the end. You'll be unlikely to find one with a bath (some do), and poo goes down a pipe into a holding tank instead of down a pipe into a sewage works. Yes the bathroom will be smaller than the one you have at home, but this is a holiday... One thing's for sure, you'll get fitter not fatter

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 2nd July 11:53

[john2443]

227bhp said:

barging

A barge is 14' wide, a 7' boat is a narrowboat, not a barge, not a longboat.

PH - terminology matters!

Agree that the clatter of the engine does get a bit annoying - being on a butty is nice, completely silent apart from lapping water.

[dhutch]

I mean yes. Don't call a narrow boat or narrowboat a barge.

Working in Liverpool I see a reasonable number of cruise ships. I would like a look round, but paying to be trapped in one doesn't appeal.


Daniel

[FiF]

I know it's not either canal or narrow boat, but the Greenline33 that Tim West and Prunella Scales used in Portugal struck me as worth a punt.

https://www.greenlinehybrid.si/yacht/greenline-33


http://yachtcharter.feeldouro.com/en/destination/

[FiF]

alfie2244 said:

FiF said:

I know it's not either canal or narrow boat, but the Greenline33 that Tim West and Prunella Scales used in Portugal struck me as worth a punt.

https://www.greenlinehybrid.si/yacht/greenline-33


http://yachtcharter.feeldouro.com/en/destination/

2k +/- p.w.

I didn't say it was cheap, but 2k split between 6..., and tbh rather that with friends and family setting own itinerary than idly sitting on a river cruise ship with randoms.

Plus have you seen how much a Broads hire cruiser is these days in high season? Can exceed 2k easily for a modern 6 berth. Then picked a decent 6 berth narrow boat from Napton in August, £2046.

[Ayahuasca]

dhutch said:

I mean yes. Don't call a narrow boat or narrowboat a barge.

Working in Liverpool I see a reasonable number of cruise ships. I would like a look round, but paying to be trapped in one doesn't appeal.


Daniel

The idea did not appeal to me either, but having been on a couple of cruises (about 30 nights in total) I can see the appeal. Although there were thousands of fellow passengers on board it was relatively easy to find a bit of deserted deck and I never felt crowded.