Get out of First Class, I'm having 2 seats

[menousername]

Just six minutes late is the clue. Probably the closest to being on time the service has been in months.

Late, overcrowded, shorter trains that usual, cancellations and issues on every journey are what most rail passangers endure across most service providers.

Declassifying first class sections to alleviate the overcrowding, and the heat that goes with it, usually comes down to the discretion and mood of the conductor onboard. There is an argument that first class should not even exist anymore.

Given this, given that first class these days merely means a better chance of getting a seat, and given the overcrowding behind him, he should be standing and letting the passangers behind him have his seat.

Seats available at the back is also one Ineould not react to. 200 of you are going to head up to the back of the train for 15 seats dotted here and there?? On a busy train it is barely possible to even walk up the aisle.

Staff like this should absolutely be named and shamed

[popeyewhite]

menousername said:

Given this, given that first class these days merely means a better chance of getting a seat, and given the overcrowding behind him, he should be standing and letting the passangers behind him have his seat.

Except First Class passengers have paid for their first Class seats. Cattle class passengers had the option to do so, but didn't. Really don't understand any other interpretation. And no, empty unused First Class seats should not go to those standing in overcrowded cattle class.

[Countdown]

popeyewhite said:

menousername said:

Given this, given that first class these days merely means a better chance of getting a seat, and given the overcrowding behind him, he should be standing and letting the passangers behind him have his seat.

Except First Class passengers have paid for their first Class seats. Cattle class passengers had the option to do so, but didn't. Really don't understand any other interpretation. And no, empty unused First Class seats should not go to those standing in overcrowded cattle class.

"Cattle class" have paid for standard seats. The train company should either provide these or let those passengers use seating in First. It's a bit of a p155take to take their money but not provide them with seating.

[Zippee]

Countdown said:

popeyewhite said:

menousername said:

Given this, given that first class these days merely means a better chance of getting a seat, and given the overcrowding behind him, he should be standing and letting the passangers behind him have his seat.

Except First Class passengers have paid for their first Class seats. Cattle class passengers had the option to do so, but didn't. Really don't understand any other interpretation. And no, empty unused First Class seats should not go to those standing in overcrowded cattle class.

"Cattle class" have paid for standard seats. The train company should either provide these or let those passengers use seating in First. It's a bit of a p155take to take their money but not provide them with seating.

I agree to a point. First class certainly isn't worth any more cash on these new trains anyway.
The biggest gripe I have is these new trains have far fewer seats than the ones they replaced and more '1st class' seats.

[Europa1]

Zippee said:

I agree to a point. First class certainly isn't worth any more cash on these new trains anyway.

Oh come now, you get a disposable antimacassar made out of some unidentifiable man-made fibre! And some sort of table, and access to a plug - these latter items being things that the civil servants who procured the new trains deemed that the majority of commuters can do without.

[popeyewhite]

Countdown said:

"Cattle class" have paid for standard seats. The train company should either provide these or let those passengers use seating in First. It's a bit of a p155take to take their money but not provide them with seating.

It's even more of a pisstake to let them sit in an area where other customers have paid an excess to be!

[Countdown]

popeyewhite said:

Countdown said:

"Cattle class" have paid for standard seats. The train company should either provide these or let those passengers use seating in First. It's a bit of a p155take to take their money but not provide them with seating.

It's even more of a pisstake to let them sit in an area where other customers have paid an excess to be!

No it isn't. It's down to the Supplier to provide the product or service they have been paid for. If for any reason they can't, and they have a substitute the customer is prepared to accept, then that should be made available to the customer.

In the case of the Train Companies it costs them nothing extra to let passengers sit in 1st class. The only people to get p155ed off are those that paid the higher fare and resent the fact that the standard class customers are getting a free upgrade. That's just petty.

[popeyewhite]

Countdown said:

It's down to the Supplier to provide the product or service they have been paid for. If for any reason they can't, and they have a substitute the customer is prepared to accept, then that should be made available to the customer.

I agree you should take it up with the company responsible. However do not inflict your grievance with the company on other innocent travellers who have paid a premium to be in First. They have, quite often, paid double the price you paid. Therefore the company does not "have a substitute". A "substitute" would be another seat somewhere else in cattle for the same price you've paid. If you can't get a seat you've booked then the correct procedure is to ask for a refund and supply proof.

[Countdown]

popeyewhite said:

I agree you should take it up with the company responsible. However do not inflict your grievance with the company on other innocent travellers who have paid a premium to be in First. They have, quite often, paid double the price you paid. Therefore the company does not "have a substitute". A "substitute" would be another seat somewhere else in cattle for the same price you've paid. If you can't get a seat you've booked then the correct procedure is to ask for a refund and supply proof.

If I use a seat in First Class that would otherwise be empty how am I inflicting anything on somebody who has paid full price to be in 1st? If the seat IS empty then surely the company DOES have an acceptable substitute, no different to anybody being bumped up to 1st class on an airplane.

[popeyewhite]

Countdown said:

If I use a seat in First Class that would otherwise be empty how am I inflicting anything on somebody who has paid full price to be in 1st?

They have paid for an upgraded service, you have not. I'm sure if you paid the difference it wouldn't be a problem though.

Countdown said:

If the seat IS empty then surely the company DOES have an acceptable substitute, no different to anybody being bumped up to 1st class on an airplane.

Once again, other people have paid a premium to be seated there, so it's not a substitute. A substitute would be a similar seat to the one you originally paid for in cattle.
People are rarely bumped up to first in a 'plane unless either a. they pay a reduced premium, or b.they are considered very regular flyers. Does this policy exist with your train service? Perhaps you could suggest it?

[Countdown]

popeyewhite said:

Countdown said:

If I use a seat in First Class that would otherwise be empty how am I inflicting anything on somebody who has paid full price to be in 1st?

They have paid for an upgraded service, you have not. I'm sure if you paid the difference it wouldn't be a problem though.

Countdown said:

If the seat IS empty then surely the company DOES have an acceptable substitute, no different to anybody being bumped up to 1st class on an airplane.

Once again, other people have paid a premium to be seated there, so it's not a substitute. A substitute would be a similar seat to the one you originally paid for in cattle.
People are rarely bumped up to first in a 'plane unless either a. they pay a reduced premium, or b.they are considered very regular flyers. Does this policy exist with your train service? Perhaps you could suggest it?

They would still be getting their upgraded service. What difference does it make to them how much I've paid for my ticket? It's a substitute because the TrainCo can't provide me with what I've paid for. it might not be the same but that's the TrainCo's fault, not mine. I've seen some pathetic arguments but this one takes the biscuit.....Could you explain how somebody who has paid for a 1st class ticket "suffers" or is somehow penalised by somebody else also sitting in 1st class? (Apart from he "it's not fair!!!!!" whinge)

I'm not sure if you're aware but it's possible to pay different prices for a 1st class service, depending on the type of ticket you book. In some cases it's actually cheaper to travel 1st class than standard class. So not everybody in 1st class will have paid the same price anyway.

[popeyewhite]

Countdown said:

They would still be getting their upgraded service etc etc

As would you, so it's not a pro rata substitute. Is it? And that's why, for the third time, you won't be getting it.

[Countdown]

popeyewhite said:

Countdown said:

They would still be getting their upgraded service etc etc

As would you, so it's not a pro rata substitute. Is it? And that's why, for the third time, you won't be getting it.

It doesnt have to be a pro-rata substiture. It simply has to be acceptable to the customer.

And people are getting it, when 1st class gets declassified.

[popeyewhite]

Countdown said:

popeyewhite said:

Countdown said:

They would still be getting their upgraded service etc etc

As would you, so it's not a pro rata substitute. Is it? And that's why, for the third time, you won't be getting it.

It doesnt have to be a pro-rata substiture. It simply has to be acceptable to the customer.

Nail and head. And to the customers who've paid full first Class fares it's not acceptable for others who've lost their seats in cattle to plonk themselves down in First. The rail company clearly feels the same. The way the things are dealt with is you complain and get a refund.

Countdown said:

And people are getting it, when 1st class gets declassified.

What? If it's not First Class it's obviously not a problem!

[egor110]

popeyewhite said:

Countdown said:

popeyewhite said:

Countdown said:

They would still be getting their upgraded service etc etc

As would you, so it's not a pro rata substitute. Is it? And that's why, for the third time, you won't be getting it.

It doesnt have to be a pro-rata substiture. It simply has to be acceptable to the customer.

Nail and head. And to the customers who've paid full first Class fares it's not acceptable for others who've lost their seats in cattle to plonk themselves down in First. The rail company clearly feels the same. The way the things are dealt with is you complain and get a refund.

Countdown said:

And people are getting it, when 1st class gets declassified.

What? If it's not First Class it's obviously not a problem!

The way things are dealt with is if there are vacant seats in 1st class then use them , very very rarely will anyone do anything other than huff and puff or write a stty post on a forum , plus the train guards don't care if the trains rammed .

It might not be right but that's how it works and if you think the guard or british transport police are going to get involved your deluded.

[Countdown]

popeyewhite said:

Nail and head. And to the customers who've paid full first Class fares it's not acceptable for others who've lost their seats in cattle to plonk themselves down in First.

Only if they're a bunch of petty selfish twunts. It makes no difference to them if somebody else is using a seat that would otherwise be unoccupied. It's just resentment that they've paid full-whack and somebody else has been given the same service for a lower cost. I travel first class occasionally. I couldn't care less if the person opposite me had paid the same, half as much or twice as much

popeyewhite said:

The rail company clearly feels the same. The way the things are dealt with is you complain and get a refund.

No, you don't If you've travelled from A to B then as far as the TrainCo is concerned you're not entitled to a refund, even if you have booked a specific seat and they have not provided it.

popeyewhite said:

Countdown said:

And people are getting it, when 1st class gets declassified.

What? If it's not First Class it's obviously not a problem!

That's my argument as well. If there are insufficient seats in Standard then the TrainCo should let passengers use the First Class carriages by declassifying them. You seem to be arguing that they shouldn't declassify them as it's not fair on those who have paid full price.

[popeyewhite]

Countdown said:

That's my argument as well. If there are insufficient seats in Standard then the TrainCo should let passengers use the First Class carriages by declassifying them. You seem to be arguing that they shouldn't declassify them as it's not fair on those who have paid full price.

Ah I see. You're right, it's not fair. And if they did declassify while I was in first I'd demand a refund. I thought you meant simply declassify the rolling stock itself before departure, not while people were actually still journeying on the thing! And why on Earth would they declassify a whole carriage with, say, 30 people who've paid for First on it just to sit another 4 from cattle who've lost their seats? Not exactly a shrewd business move.

[Zippee]

popeyewhite said:

Countdown said:

That's my argument as well. If there are insufficient seats in Standard then the TrainCo should let passengers use the First Class carriages by declassifying them. You seem to be arguing that they shouldn't declassify them as it's not fair on those who have paid full price.

Ah I see. You're right, it's not fair. And if they did declassify while I was in first I'd demand a refund. I thought you meant simply declassify the rolling stock itself before departure, not while people were actually still journeying on the thing! And why on Earth would they declassify a whole carriage with, say, 30 people who've paid for First on it just to sit another 4 from cattle who've lost their seats? Not exactly a shrewd business move.

If a train is ever officially declassified (as 1st is on all peak trains until Monday) then 1st class ticket holders can claim a refund of the fare difference.
Really not sure why you have to refer to it as cattle class either - makes you sound like a snobby twunt who thinks he's better than everyone else.

[popeyewhite]

Zippee said:

If a train is ever officially declassified (as 1st is on all peak trains until Monday) then 1st class ticket holders can claim a refund of the fare difference.

That's fair.

Zippee said:

Really not sure why you have to refer to it as cattle class either - makes you sound like a snobby twunt who thinks he's better than everyone else.

...makes you sound like a small, rude, indecisive person with a superiority complex .

[egor110]

popeyewhite said:

Zippee said:

If a train is ever officially declassified (as 1st is on all peak trains until Monday) then 1st class ticket holders can claim a refund of the fare difference.

That's fair.

Zippee said:

Really not sure why you have to refer to it as cattle class either - makes you sound like a snobby twunt who thinks he's better than everyone else.

...makes you sound like a small, rude, indecisive person with a superiority complex .

how do you work out he's small from that ?