Confronting Holocaust Denial: BBC2

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Legacywr

Original Poster:

12,016 posts

187 months

Monday 17th February 2020
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Should be interesting...

Eric Mc

121,773 posts

264 months

Monday 17th February 2020
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It was.

That Irish bloke was a disgrace. (and not very bright).

cherryowen

11,682 posts

203 months

Monday 17th February 2020
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I did mention to Mrs O early on that David was probably bet to give a platform to at least one of these deniers, if only to show them up for the mentalists that they are.

That Dermot loon, it appears, proved me right.


TomTheTyke

404 posts

146 months

Monday 17th February 2020
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I think they definitely picked the looniest denier so he at least did as much damage to his cause as possible.

The problem is that only applies to people who are thinking about it reasonably already.

David Baddiel pointed out the influence of social media and I think he's right. These people have existed for years but the difference between having to mail order pamphlets and instant, massive social media amplification and reinforcement is huge. Also absolutely no idea how to solve it. I like the idea of every Twitter account being linked to an individual, identifiable person; but we know who the Irish guy is and he posts merrily away.

Completely baffling.

Eric Mc

121,773 posts

264 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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But deniers of all sorts (moon landings, 9/11 etc etc etc) have a much more influential voice these days because of the internet. And as the events they spout about recede into the past, younger generations can sometimes be more easily swayed by the nonsense they spout.

Debunking the nonsense has to be ongoing - forever.

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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Big-Bo-Beep said:
tasteless crap
well given that holocaust denial is on the rise it IS important that these loons are looked into and called out. As for why now? It may have escaped your notice but it's the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz/Belsen/Birkenau/Mauthausen and many other camps. Only 75 years ago and quite a few people already think it's a myth/legend/massively exaggerated this along with a massive increase in antisemitism strikes me as a great bit of expenditure by the BBC

dvb70

118 posts

106 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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Eric Mc said:
But deniers of all sorts (moon landings, 9/11 etc etc etc) have a much more influential voice these days because of the internet. And as the events they spout about recede into the past, younger generations can sometimes be more easily swayed by the nonsense they spout.

Debunking the nonsense has to be ongoing - forever.
Do these deniers really have more influence or is it that they are just more visible? Has anyone met someone who was actually a reasonable balanced person who has been swayed to start believing any of this stuff? You won't find any denier views in respectable history sources and a very quick google for anyone ignorant on the subject should allow anyone who wants to educate themselves to understand where on the spectrum of crap denier beliefs sit.

As for what nonsense the young believe I think most will grow out of it. I remember being fairly keen on conspiracy theories in my late teens and eventually I out grew it. Some people never out grow such things but I think the number is so small that they are pretty insignificant in the scheme of things.


Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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Holocaust deniers are strange people. I think what makes them more sinister than say flat earthers, or moon landing deniers, is the suspicion that holocaust deniers = holocaust wannabe reenactors. Not sure how much credence that linkage has however.

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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Ayahuasca said:
Holocaust deniers are strange people. I think what makes them more sinister than say flat earthers, or moon landing deniers, is the suspicion that holocaust deniers = holocaust wannabe reenactors. Not sure how much credence that linkage has however.
There might be something in that. The subject involves deaths, the others do not, though stuff on 9/11 does as well.

it is curious how some stuff is dismissed out of hand, but other topics, say wander into anthropomorphic climate change, and the scope increases.

Jukebag

1,463 posts

138 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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Excuse me, but people have a right to have an opinion and deny an historical event like that. And if questioning the Holocaust is seen as something of a looney and to be not be taken seriously then why are you tube videos being taken down because someone is simply voicing their opinion and questioning the official version of events we have been told?. There are lots and lots of videos like this that youtube are censoring, and know doubt other platforms too like social media. Questioning all of the "terrorist" attacks are also being targeted or anything that challenges the norm.

People love to lump Holocaust denial with events like 9/11 as if to say they are as ridiculous, when in fact when you do your own research instead of believing what the mainstream news tells you, you start to realize the official story of 9/11 doesn't make sense. Then we have all this fake news, yet the real fake news should be the likes of the BBC, etc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NzJGyLK6Ksg



Zirconia

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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edit. Deleted.
\Show was good.

Edited by Zirconia on Tuesday 18th February 12:47

Jukebag

1,463 posts

138 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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Im not saying either way about the Holocaust as I've not looked into much, all I'm saying is that people have the right to ask questions and have an opinion. As for 9/11, it's obvious the Sept 11th attacks werent carried out by Bin Laden.

Halmyre

11,147 posts

138 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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Jukebag said:
Excuse me, but people have a right to have an opinion and deny an historical event like that. And if questioning the Holocaust is seen as something of a looney and to be not be taken seriously then why are you tube videos being taken down because someone is simply voicing their opinion and questioning the official version of events we have been told?. There are lots and lots of videos like this that youtube are censoring, and know doubt other platforms too like social media. Questioning all of the "terrorist" attacks are also being targeted or anything that challenges the norm.

People love to lump Holocaust denial with events like 9/11 as if to say they are as ridiculous, when in fact when you do your own research instead of believing what the mainstream news tells you, you start to realize the official story of 9/11 doesn't make sense. Then we have all this fake news, yet the real fake news should be the likes of the BBC, etc.
Double wow.


Edited by jeremyc on Tuesday 18th February 18:26

Dont like rolls

3,798 posts

53 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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I found the program was very "flat".

Baddiel was/is a poor presenter for this type of program which would have been better served by a more "Historian" approach.
By using the emotional angle it allows the arguments to be diluted.

Good(ish) but could have been much much more "on fact" to show up the twisted thinking of anyone allied to that way of thinking.

Zirconia

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Jukebag said:
Im not saying either way about the Holocaust as I've not looked into much, all I'm saying is that people have the right to ask questions and have an opinion. As for 9/11, it's obvious the Sept 11th attacks werent carried out by Bin Laden.
I deleted my post where I quoted you. Apols.

I have read a few books/authors on this over the years, many personally stories recounted and been to a camp. The evidence is rather compelling, I read up on it because it is something I felt I needed to.

Question it for the details, not did it happen when the info is available. Rather than "question" it, examine the evidence then come back to it. If you deny that evidence, then the denier fits, it is not questioning it.

Edit. What is the video in the link?



Edited by Zirconia on Tuesday 18th February 13:10

Eric Mc

121,773 posts

264 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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Jukebag said:
Im not saying either way about the Holocaust as I've not looked into much, all I'm saying is that people have the right to ask questions and have an opinion. As for 9/11, it's obvious the Sept 11th attacks werent carried out by Bin Laden.
Yes - people have the right to ask questions.

It's not the questions that are the problem - it's the lunatic conclusions they come to.

And compounded by their efforts to convince everybody else that their crackpot theories have some validity.

vxr8mate

1,654 posts

188 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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I found it somewhat shocking in many aspects.

Firstly, there are people prepared to deny the holocaust happened to the extent that it happened or that it happened at all.

Second, that there are people prepared to go on camera and deny it happened and even make a song about it.

Third, that the UK propaganda machine relegated the victims to non-mentioables during wartime.


I think Baddiel was a good choice; he knows his stuff, he is open to opinion and he's prepared to use humour to illustrate the catastrophe.


I have been to Auschwitz and seen it all for myself, I've been to Berlin and saw how they acknowledge what the Nazis did and I've watched the endless footage from the time, so I draw the conclusion deniers either have an agenda or are ill of the mind.

In other words I agree with Baddiel's conclusions, which I thought made him a good choice.

Castrol for a knave

4,637 posts

90 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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[quote=Jukebag]Excuse me, but people have a right to have an opinion and deny an historical event like that.

>>Indeed they do, and since freedom of speech works both ways, it is an equally valid response to say "here's all the evidence, now read it and fk off"


And if questioning the Holocaust is seen as something of a looney and to be not be taken seriously then why are you tube videos being taken down because someone is simply voicing their opinion and questioning the official version of events we have been told?.

>>I suspect because there is no evidence that supports holocaust denial, the Irving trial was a key test of this. Plus, holocaust deniers tend not to be driven by seeking a historical truth, but are generally unpleasant little s.


There are lots and lots of videos like this that youtube are censoring, and know doubt other platforms too like social media. Questioning all of the "terrorist" attacks are also being targeted or anything that challenges the norm.

>>Their platform, their rules.


People love to lump Holocaust denial with events like 9/11 as if to say they are as ridiculous, when in fact when you do your own research instead of believing what the mainstream news tells you, you start to realize the official story of 9/11 doesn't make sense. Then we have all this fake news, yet the real fake news should be the likes of the BBC, etc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NzJGyLK6Ksg


>>As opposed to some low rent Youtube video, of dubious provenance and lacking any critical thinking or opposing view - righty ho - that's me convinced.

mac96

3,715 posts

142 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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You can have opinions on some 'historical' events. Who was King Arthur? Did Robin Hood really rob the rich and give to the poor? That is because they are poorly documented and there is real doubt.

Not the Holocaust though. There are survivors still around. There are old guys who were in the liberating armies who saw the piled up bodies. There are records.. This is not a matter of opinion.

Disputing these facts is not just ridiculous but is part of a whole antisemitic narrative, which makes it a bit different from flat earthers and the like.

No one who thinks King Arthur never existed is making a point about the right of the descendants of Dark Ages Britons to live normal lives.

How can this not be obvious to any Uk/European person?

The only criticism i'd make of the programme was that it, quite understandably, concentrated on Jews as victims. It's the Nazis we need to remember as well- because they were civilised, cultured people, listening to classical music and reading literature- people just like us. And yet they committed the most unspeakable acts of the 20th Century. We need to remember them to make damn sure we never do anything like it in the future., whoever the next lot of victims might be.

Down and out

2,700 posts

63 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
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I didn't watch it but what's the score with deniers and video of the camps? Are they saying it's faked?