super yachts 60million+

[Burwood]

K50 DEL said:

Sway said:

I thought the US was the only country that taxed global incomes for it's citizens?

Certainly the only major country to do so, much to the disgust of some of my colleagues in Africa and the Middle East.
Many had actually given up US citizenship in favour of places like Thailand specifically because of the US tax regime.

A few african and middle east countries, vanuatu, samoa don't

China does
UK does
ALL EU countries
NZ
Australia
Israel does

a few don't-the vast majority do.

[Burwood]

thegreenhell said:

Burwood said:

RA does not pay UK taxes, regardless of where he sleeps at night or time spent here. He is an Israeli Citizen and can come and go (UK) as he pleases so long as he is a tourist. I suspect he has some pretty clever tax gurus on his payroll

If the UK had given him a passport, they could have taxed his global income. Short sighted?

But as a tourist he would still have a limited allowance of overnight stays as dictated by his visa instead. We just can't tax him for it.

Israelis can travel to the UK without a visa and stay for up to 6 months.

[K50 DEL]

Burwood said:

K50 DEL said:

Sway said:

I thought the US was the only country that taxed global incomes for it's citizens?

Certainly the only major country to do so, much to the disgust of some of my colleagues in Africa and the Middle East.
Many had actually given up US citizenship in favour of places like Thailand specifically because of the US tax regime.

A few african and middle east countries, vanuatu, samoa don't

China does
UK does
ALL EU countries
NZ
Australia
Israel does

a few don't-the vast majority do.

I'm not sure if we're talking at cross purposes here but the UK definitely doesn't.
I spent 8 years working abroad (a mixture of Africa and the Middle East) and was at no point taxed on my foreign income, my accountants made sure that I was fully legal in all areas throughout, I did chose to continue paying National Insurance for the entirety of my foreign working though.

As I noted before, of all the nationalities who I worked with only the US citizens had to declare their income and pay US taxes no matter where it was earned.

[arguti]

thegreenhell said:

Burwood said:

RA does not pay UK taxes, regardless of where he sleeps at night or time spent here. He is an Israeli Citizen and can come and go (UK) as he pleases so long as he is a tourist. I suspect he has some pretty clever tax gurus on his payroll

If the UK had given him a passport, they could have taxed his global income. Short sighted?

But as a tourist he would still have a limited allowance of overnight stays as dictated by his visa instead. We just can't tax him for it.

His visa is irrelevant (in terms of tax liability) spend more than 90 days in 3 consecutive tax years and you fall into the tax net! sleep offshore does not count as resident that day if that makes sense. the fact that he has a strong "connection" such as owning a football club counts against in in a tax sense but it is a complex subject

[Sway]

K50 DEL said:

Burwood said:

K50 DEL said:

Sway said:

I thought the US was the only country that taxed global incomes for it's citizens?

Certainly the only major country to do so, much to the disgust of some of my colleagues in Africa and the Middle East.
Many had actually given up US citizenship in favour of places like Thailand specifically because of the US tax regime.

A few african and middle east countries, vanuatu, samoa don't

China does
UK does
ALL EU countries
NZ
Australia
Israel does

a few don't-the vast majority do.

I'm not sure if we're talking at cross purposes here but the UK definitely doesn't.
I spent 8 years working abroad (a mixture of Africa and the Middle East) and was at no point taxed on my foreign income, my accountants made sure that I was fully legal in all areas throughout, I did chose to continue paying National Insurance for the entirety of my foreign working though.

As I noted before, of all the nationalities who I worked with only the US citizens had to declare their income and pay US taxes no matter where it was earned.

Agreed.

Otherwise, how do you get around double taxation? You're not exempt from local taxes if you're living/working there?

[DanL]

K50 DEL said:

I'm not sure if we're talking at cross purposes here but the UK definitely doesn't.
I spent 8 years working abroad (a mixture of Africa and the Middle East) and was at no point taxed on my foreign income, my accountants made sure that I was fully legal in all areas throughout, I did chose to continue paying National Insurance for the entirety of my foreign working though.

As I noted before, of all the nationalities who I worked with only the US citizens had to declare their income and pay US taxes no matter where it was earned.

I’m going to make an assumption here, but I think the confusion is this.

If you’re tax resident in the UK then all income (regardless of where earned) is taxed, i.e. if you have a holiday let in Florida and have an income on it while living in the UK, presumably this is taxed.

For the USA - regardless of where you live (e.g. you’re living in the UK full time) the IRS expects their slice of your income if you’re a US citizen.

That’s my assumption of the cross purpose discussion… I may be wrong on one / both statements above.

[Burwood]

Sway said:

K50 DEL said:

Burwood said:

K50 DEL said:

Sway said:

I thought the US was the only country that taxed global incomes for it's citizens?

Certainly the only major country to do so, much to the disgust of some of my colleagues in Africa and the Middle East.
Many had actually given up US citizenship in favour of places like Thailand specifically because of the US tax regime.

A few african and middle east countries, vanuatu, samoa don't

China does
UK does
ALL EU countries
NZ
Australia
Israel does

a few don't-the vast majority do.

I'm not sure if we're talking at cross purposes here but the UK definitely doesn't.
I spent 8 years working abroad (a mixture of Africa and the Middle East) and was at no point taxed on my foreign income, my accountants made sure that I was fully legal in all areas throughout, I did chose to continue paying National Insurance for the entirety of my foreign working though.

As I noted before, of all the nationalities who I worked with only the US citizens had to declare their income and pay US taxes no matter where it was earned.

Agreed.

Otherwise, how do you get around double taxation? You're not exempt from local taxes if you're living/working there?

Cross purposes-aye. I think you mean taxation irrespective of residency. My bad

[Burwood]

RevsPerMinute said:

blueg33 said:

CGI's. Travelodges look good on CGI's too

Anything can look good in CGI but that boat IMHO looks unbelievably good in the real pictures in the link I posted!

It's certainly striking-it's growing on me. Didn't like 'A' initially.

[Sway]

Burwood/Dan - think we've got to the bottom of it!

[98elise]

K50 DEL said:

Burwood said:

K50 DEL said:

Sway said:

I thought the US was the only country that taxed global incomes for it's citizens?

Certainly the only major country to do so, much to the disgust of some of my colleagues in Africa and the Middle East.
Many had actually given up US citizenship in favour of places like Thailand specifically because of the US tax regime.

A few african and middle east countries, vanuatu, samoa don't

China does
UK does
ALL EU countries
NZ
Australia
Israel does

a few don't-the vast majority do.

I'm not sure if we're talking at cross purposes here but the UK definitely doesn't.
I spent 8 years working abroad (a mixture of Africa and the Middle East) and was at no point taxed on my foreign income, my accountants made sure that I was fully legal in all areas throughout, I did chose to continue paying National Insurance for the entirety of my foreign working though.

As I noted before, of all the nationalities who I worked with only the US citizens had to declare their income and pay US taxes no matter where it was earned.

Agreed. My Father spent 25 years living and working abroad. He was not subject to UK taxes. It was one of the reasons he went!

If you're living and working in a particular country then you should be subject to taxes in that country. We expect foreign nations living and working here to pay taxes here.

[robwilk]

arguti said:

thegreenhell said:

Burwood said:

RA does not pay UK taxes, regardless of where he sleeps at night or time spent here. He is an Israeli Citizen and can come and go (UK) as he pleases so long as he is a tourist. I suspect he has some pretty clever tax gurus on his payroll

If the UK had given him a passport, they could have taxed his global income. Short sighted?

But as a tourist he would still have a limited allowance of overnight stays as dictated by his visa instead. We just can't tax him for it.

His visa is irrelevant (in terms of tax liability) spend more than 90 days in 3 consecutive tax years and you fall into the tax net! sleep offshore does not count as resident that day if that makes sense. the fact that he has a strong "connection" such as owning a football club counts against in in a tax sense but it is a complex subject

I think you will find he is classed as non domiciled, quoted from HMRC

'Non-domiciled' residents

UK residents who have their permanent home (‘domicile’) outside the UK may not have to pay UK tax on foreign income

I also believe that this Bob Geldof / Bono uses to prevent him paying tax in the UK

[Sway]

robwilk said:

arguti said:

thegreenhell said:

Burwood said:

RA does not pay UK taxes, regardless of where he sleeps at night or time spent here. He is an Israeli Citizen and can come and go (UK) as he pleases so long as he is a tourist. I suspect he has some pretty clever tax gurus on his payroll

If the UK had given him a passport, they could have taxed his global income. Short sighted?

But as a tourist he would still have a limited allowance of overnight stays as dictated by his visa instead. We just can't tax him for it.

His visa is irrelevant (in terms of tax liability) spend more than 90 days in 3 consecutive tax years and you fall into the tax net! sleep offshore does not count as resident that day if that makes sense. the fact that he has a strong "connection" such as owning a football club counts against in in a tax sense but it is a complex subject

I think you will find he is classed as non domiciled, quoted from HMRC

'Non-domiciled' residents

UK residents who have their permanent home (‘domicile’) outside the UK may not have to pay UK tax on foreign income

I also believe that this Bob Geldof / Bono uses to prevent him paying tax in the UK

RA isn't resident or domiciled in the UK at all. He's not had to register that, as he's not a UK citizen.

Geldof/Bono are probably not the best examples either, as they're Irish.

There are lots of examples of 'proper' UK non-doms. Essentially, any British F1 driver.

[Caddyshack]

LimaDelta said:

Caddyshack said:

I was talking to the owner of Fraser Yachts and he said he has buyers at the moment who have been frustrated with holiday lock downs so are buying £100m yachts to get a couple of years guaranteed holidays, he said the sort of buyers will have that sort of money and a whole lot more available so it is a quick purchase.

Not quite as simple as that unfortunately, there are still restrictions for guests and crew when transiting across national boundaries (even with the EU). Chances are your yacht will be in some nation's territorial waters and unless it is [i]very[i] big, you will have to land your jet ashore and deal with the paperwork and hassles there like anyone else before you even reach it. I'm not saying it's impossible, we have had guests this summer and last too, but it's not like it was pre-covid. We are lucky we're not reliant on the charter market.

I think he was more meaning that if someone is stuck in the UK they buy a big Yacht and sail about here.

[RevsPerMinute]

Caddyshack said:

LimaDelta said:

Caddyshack said:

I was talking to the owner of Fraser Yachts and he said he has buyers at the moment who have been frustrated with holiday lock downs so are buying £100m yachts to get a couple of years guaranteed holidays, he said the sort of buyers will have that sort of money and a whole lot more available so it is a quick purchase.

Not quite as simple as that unfortunately, there are still restrictions for guests and crew when transiting across national boundaries (even with the EU). Chances are your yacht will be in some nation's territorial waters and unless it is [i]very[i] big, you will have to land your jet ashore and deal with the paperwork and hassles there like anyone else before you even reach it. I'm not saying it's impossible, we have had guests this summer and last too, but it's not like it was pre-covid. We are lucky we're not reliant on the charter market.

I think he was more meaning that if someone is stuck in the UK they buy a big Yacht and sail about here.

I can state from experience. Sailing or bobbing about the UK certainly is not like bobbing about the Med/Caribbean. Hence the reason in real numbers so few large yachts cruise our waters.
Those few large yachts that are spotted here, I'd guess are doing it out of absolute necessity rather than just travel restrictions/ travel convenience.

[Davey S2]

arguti said:

thegreenhell said:

Burwood said:

RA does not pay UK taxes, regardless of where he sleeps at night or time spent here. He is an Israeli Citizen and can come and go (UK) as he pleases so long as he is a tourist. I suspect he has some pretty clever tax gurus on his payroll

If the UK had given him a passport, they could have taxed his global income. Short sighted?

But as a tourist he would still have a limited allowance of overnight stays as dictated by his visa instead. We just can't tax him for it.

His visa is irrelevant (in terms of tax liability) spend more than 90 days in 3 consecutive tax years and you fall into the tax net! sleep offshore does not count as resident that day if that makes sense. the fact that he has a strong "connection" such as owning a football club counts against in in a tax sense but it is a complex subject

Day visits don't count which is why greasy sleazeball 'Sir' Philip Green used to commute from Monaco to London just for the day.

[Sway]

Yeah. Unit of measure is essentially 'sleeps'.

[dvs_dave]

DanL said:

’m going to make an assumption here, but I think the confusion is this.

If you’re tax resident in the UK then all income (regardless of where earned) is taxed, i.e. if you have a holiday let in Florida and have an income on it while living in the UK, presumably this is taxed.

For the USA - regardless of where you live (e.g. you’re living in the UK full time) the IRS expects their slice of your income if you’re a US citizen.

That’s my assumption of the cross purpose discussion… I may be wrong on one / both statements above.

You generally don’t get double taxed as a US Citizen. Most worthwhile places have a tax treaty with the US, and that determines your US tax liabilities, if any, as you’d expect.

Where there isn’t a treaty in place, USC employees (Contracting world at least) are generally paid at a rate that reflects their higher potential tax burden over that of other nationals. So take home pay works out as broadly similar, despite the misplaced whingeing/jealousy that surrounds these situations.

Edited by dvs_dave on Friday 13th August 07:43

[DanL]

dvs_dave said:

DanL said:

’m going to make an assumption here, but I think the confusion is this.

If you’re tax resident in the UK then all income (regardless of where earned) is taxed, i.e. if you have a holiday let in Florida and have an income on it while living in the UK, presumably this is taxed.

For the USA - regardless of where you live (e.g. you’re living in the UK full time) the IRS expects their slice of your income if you’re a US citizen.

That’s my assumption of the cross purpose discussion… I may be wrong on one / both statements above.

You generally don’t get double taxed as a US Citizen. Most worthwhile places have a tax treaty with the US, and that determines your US tax liabilities, if any, as you’d expect.

Where there isn’t a treaty in place, USC employees (Contracting world at least) are generally paid at a rate that reflects their higher potential tax burden over that of other nationals. So take home pay works out as broadly similar, despite the misplaced whingeing/jealousy that surrounds these situations.

Edited by dvs_dave on Friday 13th August 07:43

An, not so bad then.

[DeltonaS]

dvs_dave said:

DanL said:

’m going to make an assumption here, but I think the confusion is this.

If you’re tax resident in the UK then all income (regardless of where earned) is taxed, i.e. if you have a holiday let in Florida and have an income on it while living in the UK, presumably this is taxed.

For the USA - regardless of where you live (e.g. you’re living in the UK full time) the IRS expects their slice of your income if you’re a US citizen.

That’s my assumption of the cross purpose discussion… I may be wrong on one / both statements above.

You generally don’t get double taxed as a US Citizen. Most worthwhile places have a tax treaty with the US, and that determines your US tax liabilities, if any, as you’d expect.

Where there isn’t a treaty in place, USC employees (Contracting world at least) are generally paid at a rate that reflects their higher potential tax burden over that of other nationals. So take home pay works out as broadly similar, despite the misplaced whingeing/jealousy that surrounds these situations.

Like most country's the US has tax treaty's concerning corporation tax, to my knowledge not for personal income tax.

A small Google search seems to confirm that, US citizens abroad do have foreign earned income exclusions and/or foreign income tax credits. As the IRS website tells me.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxp...
https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/paying-t...

To help avoid this negative consequence, the US tax code contains a provision called the foreign earned income exclusion (FEIE). Under the 2020 FEIE, expats are permitted to exclude $107,600 ($108,700 for 2021) of income earned abroad from their US tax obligation.

Another provision to help mitigate double taxation is the Foreign Tax Credit. In this case, Americans earning income internationally may reduce their US tax obligation beyond the limits of the FEIE if they have paid or accrued tax to a foreign government. What makes this provision complex, however, is that it applies to only certain types of income, and there are unique considerations related to each foreign country.

[Petrus1983]

blueg33 said:

RevsPerMinute said:

Speaking of Roman A, I can't deny - costs aside, I can understand why he chooses a yacht over a Travel Lodge.
https://www.superyachtfan.com/yacht/solaris/photos...

CGI's. Travelodges look good on CGI's too

I’m sure RA won’t lose any sleep over this - but I really don’t like it! I liked Le Grand Blu, Eclipse etc - but something does flow with that one. Still beats a Travel Lodge