Mercedes problem!

Mercedes problem!

Author
Discussion

Dunit

Original Poster:

626 posts

182 months

Tuesday 29th March
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With the current problems they are having , Could they not revert to the simpler design they ran at the first test , Where Lewis set a solid time?

Muzzer79

6,384 posts

164 months

Tuesday 29th March
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They still had pretty bad porpoiseing at the first test.

Theory is, fix that problem and the no-sidepod car is fast.

Schermerhorn

4,243 posts

166 months

Tuesday 29th March
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You fix the bouncing problem by raising the ride height

You raise the ride height and you lose downforce (bigger gap to the tarmac, downforce bleeds out of the sides instead of energising the underfloor and the rear diffuser)

They can bring a B-spec car (like Aston are rumoured to) but they probably don't even know the full extent of their problems yet. They have only tested the car on a few circuits.

A set-up change may bring some laptime back to them and they may only discover that "fix" by stumbling on a configuration on a certain track.


BrettMRC

2,498 posts

137 months

Wednesday 30th March
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Just needs the fan wound up a few notches, worked for the BT46! hehe

davidd

6,258 posts

261 months

Wednesday 30th March
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New floor and wing for australia apparently

deadslow

7,297 posts

200 months

Wednesday 30th March
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is it possible that the foundation laid by Ross Brawn up to 2013 flattered the present management, with a dominant car through those hybrid regs, but that they may have been found wanting in developing a new car under the new regs, under their own steam?

Jasandjules

67,466 posts

206 months

Wednesday 30th March
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It is however exciting to see them develop the car and see if they can get it back up to the front of the grid.

BrettMRC

2,498 posts

137 months

Wednesday 30th March
quotequote all
It could be a masterplan, turn up with an unusual B car at test 2...demonstrate that it isn't ground breaking for a race or two, (so no one copies) Race 3, unleash the fix and pull 5sec clear of the field... idea

WestyCarl

2,738 posts

102 months

Wednesday 30th March
quotequote all
deadslow said:
is it possible that the foundation laid by Ross Brawn up to 2013 flattered the present management, with a dominant car through those hybrid regs, but that they may have been found wanting in developing a new car under the new regs, under their own steam?
I think it's clear Merc had by far the best PU diring the hybrid era (maybe except 2019...) which maybe masked some samll car issues. They really don't have that luxury now.

The Vambo

5,615 posts

118 months

Wednesday 30th March
quotequote all
deadslow said:
is it possible that the foundation laid by Ross Brawn up to 2013 flattered the present management, with a dominant car through those hybrid regs, but that they may have been found wanting in developing a new car under the new regs, under their own steam?
Did you see how the other Merc powered cars performed while they were racking up championships?

Mercs aero and chassis R&D is clearly exceptional even if not quite as good as Redbull's insanely consistent package, you can't go toe to toe with Ferrari and Redbull for a decade with one-third of a package.

Edited by The Vambo on Wednesday 30th March 14:19

deadslow

7,297 posts

200 months

Wednesday 30th March
quotequote all
The Vambo said:
deadslow said:
is it possible that the foundation laid by Ross Brawn up to 2013 flattered the present management, with a dominant car through those hybrid regs, but that they may have been found wanting in developing a new car under the new regs, under their own steam?
Did you see how the other Merc powered cars performed while they were racking up championships?

Mercs aero and chassis R&D is clearly exceptional even if not quite as good Redbull's insanely consistently package, you can't go toe to toe with Ferrari and Redbull for a decade with one-third of a package.
yes, of course. Brawn, though, did not develop those other cars of Merc engine customers. He developed the Merc. He left at the end of 2013 and they dominated 2014 onwards in a massive way. It looks like he laid a brilliant foundation.

ChocolateFrog

16,530 posts

150 months

Wednesday 30th March
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I'm surprised that modelling and wind tunnel testing still isn't able to predict this sort of thing.


davidd

6,258 posts

261 months

Wednesday 30th March
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ChocolateFrog said:
I'm surprised that modelling and wind tunnel testing still isn't able to predict this sort of thing.
Someone did explain somewhere (perhaps JSF) why the modelling wouldn't pick it up.

Sandpit Steve

5,881 posts

51 months

Wednesday 30th March
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It’s going to be quite fascinating to watch how a team, with clearly a lot of expertise and resources right up to the budget cap, manages to iterate the car quickly in response to a known issue.

They’ll definitely be hoping to avoid any accident damage that runs up a big repair bill in the meantime.

Soloman Dodd

162 posts

19 months

Wednesday 30th March
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What they need is for a Red Bull or Ferrari to stop and get hoisted onto a recovery truck, so they can get a few good pics of the under side.

Muzzer79

6,384 posts

164 months

Wednesday 30th March
quotequote all
deadslow said:
The Vambo said:
deadslow said:
is it possible that the foundation laid by Ross Brawn up to 2013 flattered the present management, with a dominant car through those hybrid regs, but that they may have been found wanting in developing a new car under the new regs, under their own steam?
Did you see how the other Merc powered cars performed while they were racking up championships?

Mercs aero and chassis R&D is clearly exceptional even if not quite as good Redbull's insanely consistently package, you can't go toe to toe with Ferrari and Redbull for a decade with one-third of a package.
yes, of course. Brawn, though, did not develop those other cars of Merc engine customers. He developed the Merc. He left at the end of 2013 and they dominated 2014 onwards in a massive way. It looks like he laid a brilliant foundation.
They did quite well when the rules changed again in 2017, long after Brawn had gone.

deadslow

7,297 posts

200 months

Wednesday 30th March
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
deadslow said:
The Vambo said:
deadslow said:
is it possible that the foundation laid by Ross Brawn up to 2013 flattered the present management, with a dominant car through those hybrid regs, but that they may have been found wanting in developing a new car under the new regs, under their own steam?
Did you see how the other Merc powered cars performed while they were racking up championships?

Mercs aero and chassis R&D is clearly exceptional even if not quite as good Redbull's insanely consistently package, you can't go toe to toe with Ferrari and Redbull for a decade with one-third of a package.
yes, of course. Brawn, though, did not develop those other cars of Merc engine customers. He developed the Merc. He left at the end of 2013 and they dominated 2014 onwards in a massive way. It looks like he laid a brilliant foundation.
They did quite well when the rules changed again in 2017, long after Brawn had gone.
yes, you are correct. My thought on this is probably too simplistic. I'm just surprised to see them drop the ball, but I'm sure they'll be back to form soon enough.

Muzzer79

6,384 posts

164 months

Wednesday 30th March
quotequote all
Motor racing is cyclical.

One cannot go on dominating, or even consistently winning, each and every year - the history of the last 60 years has told us that.

e.g:

Red Bull 2014 onwards
Ferrari mid-2000s onwards
McLaren post 2008
Williams 1998 onwards

And so on.




HustleRussell

21,491 posts

137 months

Wednesday 30th March
quotequote all
This is not the first Mercedes Struggle. The wide-track 2017 car was the first time Mercedes described their car as a ‘Diva’, and it’s a term which they have repeated every season since. Hamilton described the 2021 car as a ‘monster diva’.

I think if Mercedes are guilty of anything, it is repeatedly coming up with a philosophy which has a very high ceiling in terms of performance but which takes a lot of graft to correlate and understand, and maybe has a rather narrow setup window. Until 2021 there was really nobody there to punish them for this in the V6T era- They had a long period of massive PU superiority, then Ferrari were slapped down, while Red Bull built some difficult cars of their own and had a constant revolving door of drivers.

I have no factual basis for this speculation but I would not be at all surprised if the Ferrari / Haas fat sidepod design proves to be a solid and easy to operate solution but one which doesn’t have a huge amount of development headroom. The competitive picture could be very different at the front by the end of this season.

Muzzer79

6,384 posts

164 months

Wednesday 30th March
quotequote all
I'm thinking that maybe sidepods are a very visible red herring and areas such as the floor are the golden key.