MSUK licence now mandatory for all events

MSUK licence now mandatory for all events

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Discussion

300bhp/ton

39,671 posts

153 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
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Drumroll said:
Never said you couldn't get insurance, just that
I doubt you will get the cover you get with MUK at a cheaper price.
I daresay we will be able to answer that more fully in the months to come. I, like everyone else, don't know what the future holds. But all I can say is, a club that hosts over 4000 entrants per year is looking at alternatives to MSUK and have undertaken initial talks already as far as I understand.

Maybe nothing will come of it, but even if it was for the same money as the new MSUK regime, but giving more autonomy and control and less red tape over the MSUK offering, it may well be deciding factors on what happens.

300bhp/ton

39,671 posts

153 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
Another thing to note.

In past times the MSA used to give rebates back to grass roots clubs if there overpayment on fees. Something welcome for most clubs, as they are normally run on a charity or not for profit basis. So generally don't have much in the way of cash funds.

The MSUK have announced that as they are no longer an association and they are a for profit organisation, they will be no longer honouring this. frown

Drumroll

2,574 posts

83 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Another thing to note.

In past times the MSA used to give rebates back to grass roots clubs if there overpayment on fees. Something welcome for most clubs, as they are normally run on a charity or not for profit basis. So generally don't have much in the way of cash funds.

The MSUK have announced that as they are no longer an association and they are a for profit organisation, they will be no longer honouring this. frown
Two things, the rebate was just that a rebate. Nothing was written that clubs would always get it.

I have it was due to cost of insurance, so would like to see a link to your claim.


300bhp/ton

39,671 posts

153 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
Drumroll said:
Two things, the rebate was just that a rebate. Nothing was written that clubs would always get it.

I have it was due to cost of insurance, so would like to see a link to your claim.
Not sure what you are after. But ask to look at any clubs accounts and you’ll see they would likely have had a small payment back pretty much every year from the MSA. This now no longer happens.

velocemitch

Original Poster:

3,118 posts

183 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
It was quite a large payback some years, many hundreds of pounds.

SAS Tom

2,925 posts

137 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
I’ve just applied for the license and it took about 2 minutes. Not sure what the issue is.

Drumroll

2,574 posts

83 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Not sure what you are after. But ask to look at any clubs accounts and you’ll see they would likely have had a small payment back pretty much every year from the MSA. This now no longer happens.
Drumroll said:
300bhp/ton said:
Another thing to note.

In past times the MSA used to give rebates back to grass roots clubs if there overpayment on fees. Something welcome for most clubs, as they are normally run on a charity or not for profit basis. So generally don't have much in the way of cash funds.

The MSUK have announced that as they are no longer an association and they are a for profit organisation, they will be no longer honouring this.frown
Two things, the rebate was just that a rebate. Nothing was written that clubs would always get it.

I have it was due to cost of insurance, so would like to see a link to your claim.
I was interested in seeing if you could actually provide some evidence of this (bold type).

I also tried to point out that the rebate was never a given.



Edited by Drumroll on Wednesday 20th November 18:42

300bhp/ton

39,671 posts

153 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
Drumroll said:
I was interested in seeing if you could actually provide some evidence of this (bold type).

I also tried to point out that the rebate was never a given.



Edited by Drumroll on Wednesday 20th November 18:42
Are you really saying they never paid money back? Maybe our club accounts and bank statements are lying ffs rolleyes

300bhp/ton

39,671 posts

153 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
SAS Tom said:
I’ve just applied for the license and it took about 2 minutes. Not sure what the issue is.
Additional cost, red tape and unneeded controlling. If you can’t see the potential issues you are either being very naive or rather dim I’m afraid.

Drumroll

2,574 posts

83 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Are you really saying they never paid money back? Maybe our club accounts and bank statements are lying ffs rolleyes
Never said clubs didn't get a rebate (money back). All I am saying is that just because they received it in the past, there should be no assumption they will always get it. (Check blue book etc nowhere does it state that MUK will return money to clubs at the end of the year.)

I am a former club treasurer so I have a reasonable idea about the rebates etc. When planning our budget for our year(s) ahead we never budgeted in a rebate from the MSA. because it varied from year to year and we understood we may not always get it.

I am more interested in the source of your statement "The MSUK have announced that as they are no longer an association and they are a for profit organisation, they will be no longer honouring this."

SAS Tom

2,925 posts

137 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
SAS Tom said:
I’ve just applied for the license and it took about 2 minutes. Not sure what the issue is.
Additional cost, red tape and unneeded controlling. If you can’t see the potential issues you are either being very naive or rather dim I’m afraid.
Not really, it’s hardly the end of the world. Yes there will be additional cost to administer it but most of it seems automatic so it’s probably not that much. I can’t really see any red tape, it’s filling in 2 minute form. It’s not really controlling either, just seems a good way of keeping track of who is taking part in events. Yes I do expect them to use that information and I don’t have a problem with it.

Drumroll

2,574 posts

83 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
Maybe this might help to explain why insurance costs are going up. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50479168

Edited by Drumroll on Wednesday 20th November 23:58

Wingo

251 posts

134 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
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Drumroll said:
Maybe this might help to explain why insurance costs are going up. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50479168

Edited by Drumroll on Wednesday 20th November 23:58
This problem has arisen out of a complete lack of insurance in a kickballist on kickballist incident.

What situation are you saying is comparable in clubbie motorsport to this incident where a kickballist has injured another kickballist?



Drumroll

2,574 posts

83 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
quotequote all
Wingo said:
This problem has arisen out of a complete lack of insurance in a kickballist on kickballist incident.

What situation are you saying is comparable in clubbie motorsport to this incident where a kickballist has injured another kickballist?

No just showing that as people have become more litigious, then invariably insurance costs will rise. MUK have several claims currently ongoing.

300bhp/ton

39,671 posts

153 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
quotequote all
Drumroll said:
Never said clubs didn't get a rebate (money back). All I am saying is that just because they received it in the past, there should be no assumption they will always get it. (Check blue book etc nowhere does it state that MUK will return money to clubs at the end of the year.)

I am a former club treasurer so I have a reasonable idea about the rebates etc. When planning our budget for our year(s) ahead we never budgeted in a rebate from the MSA. because it varied from year to year and we understood we may not always get it.

I am more interested in the source of your statement "The MSUK have announced that as they are no longer an association and they are a for profit organisation, they will be no longer honouring this."
I think it shows more the change in attitude of MSUK over the MSA. Source as far as I know is direct from MSUK or a person directly involved with them.

300bhp/ton

39,671 posts

153 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
quotequote all
SAS Tom said:
Not really, it’s hardly the end of the world. Yes there will be additional cost to administer it but most of it seems automatic so it’s probably not that much. I can’t really see any red tape, it’s filling in 2 minute form. It’s not really controlling either, just seems a good way of keeping track of who is taking part in events. Yes I do expect them to use that information and I don’t have a problem with it.
So you don’t see it being a pain that passengers now need to go through this process. Which at grassroots level is unlikely to be helpful. Even more if in a year or two the ‘free’ licence includes a payable admin fee.

Also do you no see it undermining club membership cards. As in why bother with them.

And as for the price. You are not looking at the bigger picture. These small looking sneaky increases will generate £100,000’s of income for MSUK without doing anything extra.

SAS Tom

2,925 posts

137 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
SAS Tom said:
Not really, it’s hardly the end of the world. Yes there will be additional cost to administer it but most of it seems automatic so it’s probably not that much. I can’t really see any red tape, it’s filling in 2 minute form. It’s not really controlling either, just seems a good way of keeping track of who is taking part in events. Yes I do expect them to use that information and I don’t have a problem with it.
So you don’t see it being a pain that passengers now need to go through this process. Which at grassroots level is unlikely to be helpful. Even more if in a year or two the ‘free’ licence includes a payable admin fee.

Also do you no see it undermining club membership cards. As in why bother with them.

And as for the price. You are not looking at the bigger picture. These small looking sneaky increases will generate £100,000’s of income for MSUK without doing anything extra.
Still don’t really see the issue. I’ve applied because I will be a passenger/co driver. It doesn’t upset me that in the case of something going wrong, MSUK will have my information on file. On a club event recently I was a passenger having never done it before. I had to apply to join the club and pay my membership fee. I did it in 2 minutes on my phone in the middle of a field. An extra 2 minutes applying for my Clubman RS license wouldn’t have put me off.

I don’t think it undermines club cards either as they are cards stating different things. One is for the club and one is for MSUK.

At the end of the day price increases will happen. Motorsport isn’t cheap but these increases hardly make it inaccessible to those who already do it.

Graham

16,342 posts

247 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
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Allan L said:
There was a time when the folk who controlled UK's motorsport were current participants, or retired from participating in the sport they controlled.
IIRC Hugh Chambers current head of msauk IS a current club level racer in an fia spec MGB in equipe GTS..


I must admit to be being mildly narked that my licence renewal has gone up by £50, a chunk of change when i only have time for 2-3 events at the moment. My licence, club membership and champ/series fees are now £4-500 quid before I even enter a race...



peterperkins

2,601 posts

205 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
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You could organise your own stuff and not have licenses, or insurance etc etc if you wished.
Everyone signs a massive disclaimer and you all just get on with it.
No involvement with MSUK etc..

meehaja

607 posts

71 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
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Club membership £49, license £69, Race Fees £120 (last year, likely to go up for 2020). Track time 4 minutes.

I was wondering what championship to run next year, looks like the answer is Javelin!