MSUK licence now mandatory for all events

[300bhp/ton]

Drumroll said:

Never said you couldn't get insurance, just that
I doubt you will get the cover you get with MUK at a cheaper price.

I daresay we will be able to answer that more fully in the months to come. I, like everyone else, don't know what the future holds. But all I can say is, a club that hosts over 4000 entrants per year is looking at alternatives to MSUK and have undertaken initial talks already as far as I understand.

Maybe nothing will come of it, but even if it was for the same money as the new MSUK regime, but giving more autonomy and control and less red tape over the MSUK offering, it may well be deciding factors on what happens.

[300bhp/ton]

Another thing to note.

In past times the MSA used to give rebates back to grass roots clubs if there overpayment on fees. Something welcome for most clubs, as they are normally run on a charity or not for profit basis. So generally don't have much in the way of cash funds.

The MSUK have announced that as they are no longer an association and they are a for profit organisation, they will be no longer honouring this.

[Drumroll]

300bhp/ton said:

Another thing to note.

In past times the MSA used to give rebates back to grass roots clubs if there overpayment on fees. Something welcome for most clubs, as they are normally run on a charity or not for profit basis. So generally don't have much in the way of cash funds.

The MSUK have announced that as they are no longer an association and they are a for profit organisation, they will be no longer honouring this.

Two things, the rebate was just that a rebate. Nothing was written that clubs would always get it.

I have it was due to cost of insurance, so would like to see a link to your claim.

[300bhp/ton]

Drumroll said:

Two things, the rebate was just that a rebate. Nothing was written that clubs would always get it.

I have it was due to cost of insurance, so would like to see a link to your claim.

Not sure what you are after. But ask to look at any clubs accounts and you’ll see they would likely have had a small payment back pretty much every year from the MSA. This now no longer happens.

[velocemitch]

It was quite a large payback some years, many hundreds of pounds.

[SAS Tom]

I’ve just applied for the license and it took about 2 minutes. Not sure what the issue is.

[Drumroll]

300bhp/ton said:

Not sure what you are after. But ask to look at any clubs accounts and you’ll see they would likely have had a small payment back pretty much every year from the MSA. This now no longer happens.

Drumroll said:

300bhp/ton said:

Another thing to note.

In past times the MSA used to give rebates back to grass roots clubs if there overpayment on fees. Something welcome for most clubs, as they are normally run on a charity or not for profit basis. So generally don't have much in the way of cash funds.

The MSUK have announced that as they are no longer an association and they are a for profit organisation, they will be no longer honouring this.

Two things, the rebate was just that a rebate. Nothing was written that clubs would always get it.

I have it was due to cost of insurance, so would like to see a link to your claim.

I was interested in seeing if you could actually provide some evidence of this (bold type).

I also tried to point out that the rebate was never a given.

Edited by Drumroll on Wednesday 20th November 18:42

[300bhp/ton]

Drumroll said:

I was interested in seeing if you could actually provide some evidence of this (bold type).

I also tried to point out that the rebate was never a given.

Edited by Drumroll on Wednesday 20th November 18:42

Are you really saying they never paid money back? Maybe our club accounts and bank statements are lying ffs

[300bhp/ton]

SAS Tom said:

I’ve just applied for the license and it took about 2 minutes. Not sure what the issue is.

Additional cost, red tape and unneeded controlling. If you can’t see the potential issues you are either being very naive or rather dim I’m afraid.

[Drumroll]

300bhp/ton said:

Are you really saying they never paid money back? Maybe our club accounts and bank statements are lying ffs

Never said clubs didn't get a rebate (money back). All I am saying is that just because they received it in the past, there should be no assumption they will always get it. (Check blue book etc nowhere does it state that MUK will return money to clubs at the end of the year.)

I am a former club treasurer so I have a reasonable idea about the rebates etc. When planning our budget for our year(s) ahead we never budgeted in a rebate from the MSA. because it varied from year to year and we understood we may not always get it.

I am more interested in the source of your statement "The MSUK have announced that as they are no longer an association and they are a for profit organisation, they will be no longer honouring this."

[SAS Tom]

300bhp/ton said:

SAS Tom said:

I’ve just applied for the license and it took about 2 minutes. Not sure what the issue is.

Additional cost, red tape and unneeded controlling. If you can’t see the potential issues you are either being very naive or rather dim I’m afraid.

Not really, it’s hardly the end of the world. Yes there will be additional cost to administer it but most of it seems automatic so it’s probably not that much. I can’t really see any red tape, it’s filling in 2 minute form. It’s not really controlling either, just seems a good way of keeping track of who is taking part in events. Yes I do expect them to use that information and I don’t have a problem with it.

[Drumroll]

Maybe this might help to explain why insurance costs are going up. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50479168

Edited by Drumroll on Wednesday 20th November 23:58

[Wingo]

Drumroll said:

Maybe this might help to explain why insurance costs are going up. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50479168

Edited by Drumroll on Wednesday 20th November 23:58

This problem has arisen out of a complete lack of insurance in a kickballist on kickballist incident.

What situation are you saying is comparable in clubbie motorsport to this incident where a kickballist has injured another kickballist?

[Drumroll]

Wingo said:

This problem has arisen out of a complete lack of insurance in a kickballist on kickballist incident.

What situation are you saying is comparable in clubbie motorsport to this incident where a kickballist has injured another kickballist?

No just showing that as people have become more litigious, then invariably insurance costs will rise. MUK have several claims currently ongoing.

[300bhp/ton]

Drumroll said:

Never said clubs didn't get a rebate (money back). All I am saying is that just because they received it in the past, there should be no assumption they will always get it. (Check blue book etc nowhere does it state that MUK will return money to clubs at the end of the year.)

I am a former club treasurer so I have a reasonable idea about the rebates etc. When planning our budget for our year(s) ahead we never budgeted in a rebate from the MSA. because it varied from year to year and we understood we may not always get it.

I am more interested in the source of your statement "The MSUK have announced that as they are no longer an association and they are a for profit organisation, they will be no longer honouring this."

I think it shows more the change in attitude of MSUK over the MSA. Source as far as I know is direct from MSUK or a person directly involved with them.

[300bhp/ton]

SAS Tom said:

Not really, it’s hardly the end of the world. Yes there will be additional cost to administer it but most of it seems automatic so it’s probably not that much. I can’t really see any red tape, it’s filling in 2 minute form. It’s not really controlling either, just seems a good way of keeping track of who is taking part in events. Yes I do expect them to use that information and I don’t have a problem with it.

So you don’t see it being a pain that passengers now need to go through this process. Which at grassroots level is unlikely to be helpful. Even more if in a year or two the ‘free’ licence includes a payable admin fee.

Also do you no see it undermining club membership cards. As in why bother with them.

And as for the price. You are not looking at the bigger picture. These small looking sneaky increases will generate £100,000’s of income for MSUK without doing anything extra.

[SAS Tom]

300bhp/ton said:

SAS Tom said:

Not really, it’s hardly the end of the world. Yes there will be additional cost to administer it but most of it seems automatic so it’s probably not that much. I can’t really see any red tape, it’s filling in 2 minute form. It’s not really controlling either, just seems a good way of keeping track of who is taking part in events. Yes I do expect them to use that information and I don’t have a problem with it.

So you don’t see it being a pain that passengers now need to go through this process. Which at grassroots level is unlikely to be helpful. Even more if in a year or two the ‘free’ licence includes a payable admin fee.

Also do you no see it undermining club membership cards. As in why bother with them.

And as for the price. You are not looking at the bigger picture. These small looking sneaky increases will generate £100,000’s of income for MSUK without doing anything extra.

Still don’t really see the issue. I’ve applied because I will be a passenger/co driver. It doesn’t upset me that in the case of something going wrong, MSUK will have my information on file. On a club event recently I was a passenger having never done it before. I had to apply to join the club and pay my membership fee. I did it in 2 minutes on my phone in the middle of a field. An extra 2 minutes applying for my Clubman RS license wouldn’t have put me off.

I don’t think it undermines club cards either as they are cards stating different things. One is for the club and one is for MSUK.

At the end of the day price increases will happen. Motorsport isn’t cheap but these increases hardly make it inaccessible to those who already do it.

[Graham]

Allan L said:

There was a time when the folk who controlled UK's motorsport were current participants, or retired from participating in the sport they controlled.

IIRC Hugh Chambers current head of msauk IS a current club level racer in an fia spec MGB in equipe GTS..


I must admit to be being mildly narked that my licence renewal has gone up by £50, a chunk of change when i only have time for 2-3 events at the moment. My licence, club membership and champ/series fees are now £4-500 quid before I even enter a race...

[peterperkins]

You could organise your own stuff and not have licenses, or insurance etc etc if you wished.
Everyone signs a massive disclaimer and you all just get on with it.
No involvement with MSUK etc..

[meehaja]

Club membership £49, license £69, Race Fees £120 (last year, likely to go up for 2020). Track time 4 minutes.

I was wondering what championship to run next year, looks like the answer is Javelin!