More 'Audiophile' bullsh*t

[Tony1963]

I think that....

Good software can produce a better copy that the original CD was. Those errors on the original, if there are enough of them, can degrade the sound quality. A good copy has the errors removed.

[TonyRPH]

alock said:

Not quite. Red book and yellow book error correction standards are built with different goals. Audio CDs are designed to fail gracefully and interpolate missing data. This should allow them to continue working even when heavily scratched. CD ROMs are designed to either work 100% or fail.

I have a distant memory of some old CD ROM drives having no firmware error correction so you could be 100% sure of a perfect rip. My memory might be failing me on that though.

I'm well aware of the standards.

But in the example I cited, the audio CD is being read as a data CD. It's raw data that's being extracted, and not being read as an audio CD as such.

See such programs as cdparanoia (Linux) and ExactAudioCopy (Windows).

[budgie smuggler]

TonyRPH said:

I'm well aware of the standards.

But in the example I cited, the audio CD is being read as a data CD. It's raw data that's being extracted, and not being read as an audio CD as such.

See such programs as cdparanoia (Linux) and ExactAudioCopy (Windows).

Yes and if the user needs further proof they have a good copy, the checksum of the resulting file can be checked against that in the Accuraterip database.

[sociopath]

TonyRPH said:

Well, my bullst meter has just completely blown up and I'm now looking for a replacement.

A demagnetiser for your records. Whatever next.

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-rev...

Whatever next? Howabout an audiophile network router.

Yours for £999 from Russ "snakeoil" Andrews

[alock]

TonyRPH said:

alock said:

Not quite. Red book and yellow book error correction standards are built with different goals. Audio CDs are designed to fail gracefully and interpolate missing data. This should allow them to continue working even when heavily scratched. CD ROMs are designed to either work 100% or fail.

I have a distant memory of some old CD ROM drives having no firmware error correction so you could be 100% sure of a perfect rip. My memory might be failing me on that though.

I'm well aware of the standards.

But in the example I cited, the audio CD is being read as a data CD. It's raw data that's being extracted, and not being read as an audio CD as such.

See such programs as cdparanoia (Linux) and ExactAudioCopy (Windows).

It's not read as a data CD ROM. Audio CDs are a different standard and the red book error correction is handled inside the drive. Tools like you suggest use other techniques such as reading the data multiple times to check for consistency, before having a high degree of confidence in the accuracy of the read. They mention 99.5% on their own website:
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/en/index.php/overview...

It will help with environmental issues such as airborne dust in the reader impacting individual reads differently.

However none of this will help with many damaged disk issues because there's no random nature to the read error and hence it'll be the same every time.

[TonyRPH]

alock said:

It's not read as a data CD ROM. Audio CDs are a different standard and the red book error correction is handled inside the drive. Tools like you suggest use other techniques such as reading the data multiple times to check for consistency, before having a high degree of confidence in the accuracy of the read. They mention 99.5% on their own website:
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/en/index.php/overview...

It will help with environmental issues such as airborne dust in the reader impacting individual reads differently.

However none of this will help with many damaged disk issues because there's no random nature to the read error and hence it'll be the same every time.

Ok, it reads the values off the CD in digital form. Not quite like reading a data CDROM however that's pure semantics.

What it (apparently) doesn't do, is read the songs / tracks.

CD Paranoia website said:

Cdparanoia (and all other true CD digital audio extraction tools) reads the values off the CDROM in digital form. The data never comes anywhere near the soundcard, and does not pass through any conversion to analog first.

https://www.xiph.org/paranoia/faq.html

[Gary C]

alock said:

It's not read as a data CD ROM. Audio CDs are a different standard and the red book error correction is handled inside the drive. Tools like you suggest use other techniques such as reading the data multiple times to check for consistency, before having a high degree of confidence in the accuracy of the read. They mention 99.5% on their own website:
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/en/index.php/overview...

It will help with environmental issues such as airborne dust in the reader impacting individual reads differently.

However none of this will help with many damaged disk issues because there's no random nature to the read error and hence it'll be the same every time.

Interesting, never knew the error correction was a function of the device and that it was corrected before it provides the stream to the PC, but surely the error rate of a good condition CD these days is vanishingly small given that the standard was developed in the 70's when the associated electronics were much poorer ?

[Tony1963]

Most audio CDs have been produced as cheaply as they could get away with.

[TonyRPH]

Gary C said:

Interesting, never knew the error correction was a function of the device and that it was corrected before it provides the stream to the PC, but surely the error rate of a good condition CD these days is vanishingly small given that the standard was developed in the 70's when the associated electronics were much poorer ?

I have known good CDROM drives (known to work well with cdparanoia and EAC) and even with brand new CDs, I see the occasional corrected read error.

But, one thing to bear in mind is that although an error was detected, it definitely won't be audible and in many cases won't even required any intervention from the error correction when played back in a CD or DVD player.

I have in fact managed to rip some pretty horrendous looking discs without any loss of quality.

The only discs that yield unrecoverable errors are usually those with damage to the label side leaving a "hole" that you can see right through.

The format is amazingly resilient, despite what audiophile websites claim.

You only have to look at other CD based formats like DVD and BLURAY where the data density is much higher and yet these too are read reliably and consistently.

[theboss]

sociopath said:

Whatever next? Howabout an audiophile network router.

Yours for £999 from Russ "snakeoil" Andrews

I had to look that up for a laugh...

https://www.russandrews.com/russ-andrews-network-s...

It has a custom clock apparently, those inaccurately timed ethernet frames must really affect musicality. God knows how the datacentre appliances I work with manage without this sort of technical insight.

[Zirconia]

theboss said:

sociopath said:

Whatever next? Howabout an audiophile network router.

Yours for £999 from Russ "snakeoil" Andrews

I had to look that up for a laugh...

https://www.russandrews.com/russ-andrews-network-s...

It has a custom clock apparently, those inaccurately timed ethernet frames must really affect musicality. God knows how the datacentre appliances I work with manage without this sort of technical insight.

It has heat shrink sleeving on the cable, sure sign of a quality product. The braiding must be perfect as well or you get issues (the unobtanium waves cross over too easy).

[theboss]

Zirconia said:

It has heat shrink sleeving on the cable, sure sign of a quality product. The braiding must be perfect as well or you get issues (the unobtanium waves cross over too easy).

Obviously it isn't much use on its own, you have to partner it with a £1k kettle lead to realise its full potential.

[Honk]

Zirconia said:

theboss said:

sociopath said:

Whatever next? Howabout an audiophile network router.

Yours for £999 from Russ "snakeoil" Andrews

I had to look that up for a laugh...

https://www.russandrews.com/russ-andrews-network-s...

It has a custom clock apparently, those inaccurately timed ethernet frames must really affect musicality. God knows how the datacentre appliances I work with manage without this sort of technical insight.

It has heat shrink sleeving on the cable, sure sign of a quality product. The braiding must be perfect as well or you get issues (the unobtanium waves cross over too easy).

Far too cheap to be effective. I would prefer to pay about £5,000.

[Zirconia]

theboss said:

Zirconia said:

It has heat shrink sleeving on the cable, sure sign of a quality product. The braiding must be perfect as well or you get issues (the unobtanium waves cross over too easy).

Obviously it isn't much use on its own, you have to partner it with a £1k kettle lead to realise its full potential.

Sounds better with IEC C13 vs IEC C15

Hells bells I looked them up. Add in Flexible braid to the heat shrink. Sure sign that the best time to sell some prime building land is when the tide is out.

To think our 4k kit was powered by off the shelf bulk buy connectors and powered via standard 32/63 power cons. Vision though, did have audio as people like to hear stuff.

[TonyRPH]

Behold the Silent Angel Bonn N8 Audio Grade Ethernet Switch

The Audio Science Review site (linked to above) found absolutely ZERO benefit to using this switch (as he has done with other audiophile buffoonery)

Additionally, someone on that forum posted a link to a virtually identical switch (which it is obviously sourced from).

[Toltec]

Zirconia said:

Sounds better with IEC C13 vs IEC C15

Hells bells I looked them up. Add in Flexible braid to the heat shrink. Sure sign that the best time to sell some prime building land is when the tide is out.

To think our 4k kit was powered by off the shelf bulk buy connectors and powered via standard 32/63 power cons. Vision though, did have audio as people like to hear stuff.

You need to go up to C21 for the extra current handling and temperature immunity really, if you want to call yourself a real audiophile.

[S6PNJ]

Right, I've found my next money making venture for the AV world - who's coming into business with me - and don't go stealing my idea before I get it to market whatever you do!

https://rowlandearthing.co.uk/

Earthing sheets for while you sleep to make you more 'energised'. If it can do this to you while you sleep, imagine what it can do for you while (or even before) you listen to music??????? It claims: "Protection Against EMFs Whenever the skin is in contact with the Earth’s surface, the body creates a ‘faraday cage’ effect and becomes shielded from electromagnetic radiation in the environment." This can ONLY improve your listening experience, surely???

So, this new company - who's in?? Simply send me £1000 and I'll put you on the list of directors.

[Zirconia]

^^^
I just used my zap strap. Felt superb the next morning so I can attest that it is effective and true.

[Tony Starks]

I did the benchtops for a house that had special linings in the walls and ceiling that blocked out all sorts of imaginary things. It was even on Grand Designs NZ. The one thing every trade asked each other was 'what happens if you open the window?' all those microwaves would be extra concentrated through the small openings and melt you quicker.

It just amazes me that the kind of people who buy all this are clued up enough to be wealthy, but stupid enough to buy anything.

[ATG]

S6PNJ said:

Right, I've found my next money making venture for the AV world - who's coming into business with me - and don't go stealing my idea before I get it to market whatever you do!

https://rowlandearthing.co.uk/

Earthing sheets for while you sleep to make you more 'energised'. If it can do this to you while you sleep, imagine what it can do for you while (or even before) you listen to music??????? It claims: "Protection Against EMFs Whenever the skin is in contact with the Earth’s surface, the body creates a ‘faraday cage’ effect and becomes shielded from electromagnetic radiation in the environment." This can ONLY improve your listening experience, surely???

So, this new company - who's in?? Simply send me £1000 and I'll put you on the list of directors.

Amateurs. Any fule kno that you can only be properly earthed if you make it into a sleeping bag or a onesie. Audiophile listening onesies with oxygen reduced silver braided earthing cables that you can conveniently attach to any earthing rod in the garden.