More 'Audiophile' bullsh*t

[TonyRPH]

911hope said:

The point where they reverse spin direction must be very busy.

I always thought the crossover network was a HP an LP filter and EQ etc.... Perhaps it's real purpose is to reverse the electron spin direction.

No, silly... The point of the crossover is to prevent electron collisions when they meet at the speaker, and ensure the right electron reaches the right drive unit.

[TonyRPH]

NDA said:

A friend of mine has a ridiculously expensive hifi set up - in the £40k league.

I mentioned to him that as he uses hearing aids, is he hearing all this high fidelity through cheap little ear speakers?

I have hearing aids, but never wear them because despite having TV and music settings, they make everything sound bad.

My hearing isn't that bad anyway, it's just one ear that's verging on bad.

I raised this issue on an audio forum I frequent, and I got a reply from an audiologist who mentioned that it is possible to get bluetooth hearing aids with high quality sound (so you essentially use them as headphones for audio / TV sound).

[TonyRPH]

Sporky said:

Tony1963 said:

Van Damme is very good stuff. But… they sell a range of cables at a range of prices. That says something.

What does it say?

To me, it says they are pandering to audiophiles.

[TonyRPH]

Behold The Speaker Improver

Only a couple of paragraphs in and the bullst commences...

review said:

The Loudspeaker Improver utilizes crystal patterns and paramagnetic piezoelectric properties of natural raw materials, like minerals and gold, to reduce high-frequency noise in the audio signal fed into passive speakers.

Retail: US$1070 a pair. US$535 for a single.

Given that 99% of stereo listeners have two speakers....

[TonyRPH]

OutInTheShed said:

<snip>

Maybe Tony who brings these things to our attention is in on the clickbait income stream? fair do's, we're all here voluntarily...

If you're referring to me (TonyRPH) and not Tony1963 - I can state quite categorically that I have no financial interests in any of this snake oil.

I can see how you think I might have a vested interest though!

[TonyRPH]

The reviews he read out are hilarious.

And that unit costs 1000 euros!!

[TonyRPH]

theboss said:

<snip>

My Linn KDSM is provided with an SFP port for example, and I thought this isn't a bad idea, why not just sidestep the whole voodoo ethernet cable nonsense and RFI discussion and electrically isolate the device from the ethernet.

<snip>

Take a look at a network card and switch. There are little black boxes which are isolation transformers.

Every device is already electrically isolated (with the exception of PoE however there the data is still isolated).

[TonyRPH]

theboss said:

Obviously not sufficiently isolated to prevent half a dozen of my networked devices blowing up due to a power surge on the copper though...

3m of fibre provides a greater degree of isolation than a transformer, that's my point, and conveniently just squashes the purists' arguments for buying £1k ethernet cables.

Well quite. A transformer can only offer a certain level of isolation before it breaks down.

[TonyRPH]

tonyg58 said:

Here's a real beauty for you.
I was looking for a contact cleaner for my connectors, some of them are looking a bit iffy.

I find -

https://chord.co.uk/product/chordohmic-transmissio...

£200 for a 10ml bottle of which 60% is water !!

Servisol Super 10 is all you need

[TonyRPH]

anonymoususer said:

I thought a new approach was needed so I'm trying this out

Some (note some!), of the Eltax range were not bad. They often used decent drive units as well.

[TonyRPH]

Let's dissect the claims Naim make about their powerline cable.

Naim said:

The Power-Line mains plug is designed with a thermoset resin case and floating pins that align to provide better contact with socket connections.

Any plug top that meets the BS standard will fit extremely tightly in a 13A socket. Even Chinese manufactured plugs manage this.

Naim said:

The stripped cable ends are secured with specially profiled clamp screws, and a die-cast component ensures that the cable is decoupled and clamped.

'Specially profiled clamp screws' are not required. In fact all that is required is a good quality ferrule and a screw with a flat end.

Naim said:

The Power-Line cable is custom manufactured with 4mm² cross section copper conductors, individual dielectric insulation, and a rubber outer layer that provides high levels of mechanical damping and stiffness for easy installation.

I should hope the cable has 'individual dielectric insulation' otherwise it will cause a short between the 3 conductors.

The 'rubber outer layer' suggests they have probably used standard Rubber HO7RN-F Cable.

Naim said:

The Power-Line also features an IEC inlet plug that continues the decoupling and electrical continuity themes of the mains plug. It has floating contacts, combined decoupling and clamping, double wiper contacts, and eddy current suppression for better performance.

Decoupling? What decoupling? To conform to the required standard, the cable has to be securely attached to the receptacle at either end, which means secure mechanical coupling.

Floating contacts? Once the plug(s) are inserted into the respective receptacles, the should be zero movement anyway.

If there is any movement, then there is a mechanical fault with either receptacle.

Conclusion:

I would sincerely love to hear an explanation (backed up with measurements) from Naim as to how this cable can possibly improve system performance.

[TonyRPH]

Tony1963 said:

Or you could just try one....
<snip>

In my younger years I experimented with all manner of different ideas (including mains leads) and was never able to hear any differences (and neither could my peers).

It has also been scientifically proven (AND with AB/X testing) that mains leads do not make any difference.

The same applies to mains regenerators / mains filters etc. etc. but that's an entire other topic...

[TonyRPH]

Tony1963 said:

Jobbo said:

Any mains cable should just work; if it doesn't it is broken.

And there you have it.

My olive Naim stuff uses star earthing, and the Graham’s Hydra (4 IEC plugs fed from one mains plug) maintains that.
Now you can argue that one with pure ignorance if you want, up to you.

If you understood star earthing (grounding is the proper term) then you would know just how absurd your statement is.

[TonyRPH]

Tony1963 said:

No. It means that some of the internals are decoupled from each other.

Vibrations are a thing, and someone thought that a) they’re an issue in mains plugs, and b) they could do something about it.


And, they do something to the sound. Sometimes good, sometimes bad in the ‘wrong’ application. But of course, that’s me trusting my silly old ears and enjoying the music instead of only looking at boring spec sheets etc.
Again, no, I don’t have any Naim PowerLines in my system. I use a Graham’s Hydra. Again, no measurements or spec sheets, it just works.

And aaaaaah, the old chestnut of confirmation bias. That’s getting rather tired now. I listen to the music with my ears, so my decisions have been made by using my ears, bank balance, and of course my wife.

The perverse thing is that some here would absolutely buy something that the spec sheets and teachings at electronics classes said will improve the sound, even if in practice it made no difference at all!

Aah, I see we have entered the "Church of cables" - a religion in itself.

You do realise that 50Hz (60Hz in some other parts of the world) mains "vibrates" (as so to speak)?

And no, vibrations from other external sources is *not* going to affect the sound, it really isn't.

I just Googled the Hydra cable and;

Graham's said:

The effect that mains quality has on the performance of an audio system is startling. In a ideal world, an audio system would have its own spur directly from a consumer unit to isolate it from polluting influences like computers and microwave ovens. Whether or not you choose to have a dedicated spur, Grahams mains distribution devices can radically improve sound quality.

Grahams Naim Hyrda leads
These mains distribution leads are specifically designed for Naim electronics to continue the 'star' earthing route that they are designed around. They make a stunning difference in sound quality and there are options for three to nine connections.

As stated in my other post, star earthing (grounding) in an amplifier is the ground topology of the amp, and in many cases is not even connected to mains ground.

One thing I will grant however, is that combining the grounds into a single ground as per the hydra cable is not a bad thing, simply because it's keeping the (mains) ground impedance low between devices** which will likely reduce the influence of earth loops.

But why specifically for Naim? Is Naim equipment that badly designed???

• assuming those devices even have a grounded chassis - a lot of HiFi uses double insulated transformers, negating the need for a main earth.

[TonyRPH]

robinessex said:

With all the issues re-stuffing AC mains into an amplifier, I am considering that my next setup will be 2 of the most powerful car audio amps I can find, powering them with a massive 12v DC power supply. Maybe an arc welder will do it.

A HiFi amplifier with a linear power supply has a mains transformer that converts the mains to DC.

A 12v DC power supply will have the same topology - a transformer that converts mains to DC.

Therefore no difference...

Same applies for a switched mode PSU - incoming mains is rectified to DC, switched rapidly through a transformer (*) which produces AC at the switching frequency (typically between 40kHz and 500kHz depending on design) and is subsequently rectified to produce the DC for the amp (this could apply to the HiFi PSU or the 12v PSU).

Additionally, most car amps (that are not class d) will have another switching supply to step up the 12v to typically +/- 40vDC.

So there's nothing to gain here I'm afraid.

• simplified explanation

[TonyRPH]

911hope said:

A transformer does not rectify AC to DC. It steps down the AC voltage. It would be typically be followed by a wein bridge rectifier (bunch of diodes), plus reservoir capacitors.

That's your liner unregulated power supply.

Your description of the SMPS implementation also has errors. If you want to seem convincing use some terms like buck converter, pwm modulation, regulation...inductor (final filter...not rectification.)

You may also want to talk about the benefits of SMPS over linear supply. Efficiency, regulation, weight, size, cost.

As for car amps...

I was trying to keep it simple.

Yes, my first line was somewhat obscure... "A HiFi amplifier with a linear power supply has a mains transformer that converts the mains to DC."

I should have said that the incoming mains is stepped down by a transformer and subsequently rectified to DC by a bridge rectifier, and said DC is then smoothed by capacitor(s) and or LC filters etc.

As for the switch mode PSU - again, the intention was to keep it simple.

However I believe my explanation was sufficient for the purposes of the post, the path being;

Incoming AC -> rectifier -> DC + smoothing fed to the primary of a transformer with a 'chopper' transistor connected to the other end of the transformer primary - said transistor is controlled usually by a chip of some description and regulated by feedback from the secondary of the transformer etc. etc. (again, very simplified).

But there was no need to go into such a detailed explanation for the purposes of the post.

As for the other things you mention, again - no need for such detail in the context of the post.

I'm not here to 'willy wave' my electronics knowledge.

[TonyRPH]

911hope said:

Yet..you are trying to do just that..however, you are not impressing yet.
<snip>
Come on... I have already given you some phrases to use, if you want to sound credible.

I'm not here to impress anyone or seek validation - just to contribute to the discussion, which in case you had forgotten, is about audiophile bullsh*t.

I'm not here to showcase my engineering credentials.

Why are you singling me out with your replies, as they're not adding any value to the conversation?

Perhaps you have an inferiority complex?

[TonyRPH]

Sporky said:

This one is nice too:

https://bettercables.com/products/blue-truth-audio...

<snip>

I was amused by the quote from a review:

"…But what both Blue Truth cables offer is a glimpse into a much bigger world of high-end cable design, with both the XLR and USB punching above their respective weight classes."

My first thought on seeing that led me to wonder if the cable is heavy. One of those heavy enough to put excess strain on your USB ports, and in the case of a relatively lightweight DAC, constantly pull it off the shelf.

They also need to have a word with their web designer, as the 'chat' in the bottom corner overlays the cookie acknowledgement...

[TonyRPH]

OutInTheShed said:

It's preferable to Allan Variance.
Frequency of the mains used to matter with old TVs and Garrard record decks.

Frequency still does matter with many modern decks that use synchronous motors, such as many older Regas, Pro-Ject etc. etc.

Back in the late 70's I had a Technics SL220 belt drive deck but with an FG servo motor for speed control.

Typically of the time, this deck depended on a mains neon for the platter strobe and it would often appear that the speed was varying, even though it wasn't (as proven by a test record and frequency counter) - it was the mains frequency varying that was misleading!

[TonyRPH]

DC on the mains can cause transformers to buzz.

A decent power conditioner will have a DC blocker built in.