Building some speakers - Anyone done it?

Building some speakers - Anyone done it?

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Discussion

paulrockliffe

Original Poster:

9,805 posts

177 months

Friday 11th October 2019
quotequote all
TonyRPH said:
Finally, despite all the easy to use software out there, you will still need a calibrated test microphone, a decent enough audio interface (most semi pro calibrated mics require phantom power)
Thanks, that's all good stuff. The bit I've quoted though, I think that's over the top for what I'm after isn't it? I'm not after the last word in sound quality at all.

TonyRPH

10,141 posts

118 months

Friday 11th October 2019
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
Thanks, that's all good stuff. The bit I've quoted though, I think that's over the top for what I'm after isn't it? I'm not after the last word in sound quality at all.
You could certainly just "chuck a couple of woofers in a box" and get 'reasonable' sound quality.

In which case you won't need any of the aforementioned software, that's for sure!

Certainly - if you go for one of the custom ceiling / wall drive units, it'll probably sound good enough for your requirements.

I wouldn't even bother buying speakers off Gumtree to get cabinets, just mount them in a reasonably sized baffle (with some kind of cabinet behind of course, along with a bit of wadding / sound deadening) and you'll be good to go.



paulrockliffe

Original Poster:

9,805 posts

177 months

Friday 11th October 2019
quotequote all
TonyRPH said:
I wouldn't even bother buying speakers off Gumtree to get cabinets, just mount them in a reasonably sized baffle (with some kind of cabinet behind of course, along with a bit of wadding / sound deadening) and you'll be good to go.
Thanks again. I meant Gumtree to get all the speaker bits rather than the cabinets, I'm happy enough building wood/ply/MDF boxes given I've built the rest of the loft conversion on my own.

Crackie

4,388 posts

192 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
Thanks again. I meant Gumtree to get all the speaker bits rather than the cabinets, I'm happy enough building wood/ply/MDF boxes given I've built the rest of the loft conversion on my own.
This BMR driver would be a very straight forward solution. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/speaker-drivers/876...

Use it in a 6.0 litre cabinet with a single 30mm diameter port........60mm long.

Sound quality of these BMR full range drivers is excellent.........the only real drawback is their relatively low efficiency and consequently their maximum volume capability. They produce 81dB for 1w input and have 30w power handling. This gives them a continuous max output of capability 96dB and 99dB on peaks. Still pretty loud but maybe not what you're looking for.........

https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/16b9/09007...

The BMR drivers are clever and propagate sound using the best benefits of moving coil and modal principles; consequently they're capable of genuine full range performance with an excellent high frequncy 'power response'. Power response is important and many conventional full range drivers simply cannot cannot deliver a good power response at the higher frequencies............they're rubbish at it tbh.

Edited by Crackie on Sunday 13th October 13:52

paulrockliffe

Original Poster:

9,805 posts

177 months

Sunday 13th October 2019
quotequote all
Crackie said:
paulrockliffe said:
Thanks again. I meant Gumtree to get all the speaker bits rather than the cabinets, I'm happy enough building wood/ply/MDF boxes given I've built the rest of the loft conversion on my own.
This BMR driver would be a very straight forward solution. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/speaker-drivers/876...

Use it in a 6.0 litre cabinet with a single 30mm diameter port........60mm long.

Sound quality of these BMR full range drivers is excellent.........the only real drawback is their relatively low efficiency and consequently their maximum volume capability. They produce 81dB for 1w input and have 30w power handling. This gives them a continuous max output of capability 96dB and 99dB on peaks. Still pretty loud but maybe not what you're looking for.........

https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/16b9/09007...

The BMR drivers are clever and propagate sound using the best benefits of moving coil and modal principles; consequently they're capable of genuine full range performance with an excellent high frequncy 'power response'. Power response is important and many conventional full range drivers simply cannot cannot deliver a good power response at the higher frequencies............they're rubbish at it tbh.

Edited by Crackie on Sunday 13th October 13:52
You obviously know what you're talking about, but can I really pay £12 for a 100mm speaker and get a good result? Sees very cheap and very small given everyone else has linked to £100-£1000s worth of stuff!

If these are that good, how well will they work as ceiling speakers if I can find a grill to go over them? I have some cheap ceiling speakers, which are OK, but I was looking to swap them for something better and add a few more while I still have access to run wires above.

RogerDodger

1,900 posts

44 months

Sunday 13th October 2019
quotequote all
All of the money in expensive speakers is in the design and cabinet etc. Speaker drivers themselves are (generally) the cheap simple bit

Crackie

4,388 posts

192 months

Sunday 13th October 2019
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
Crackie said:
paulrockliffe said:
Thanks again. I meant Gumtree to get all the speaker bits rather than the cabinets, I'm happy enough building wood/ply/MDF boxes given I've built the rest of the loft conversion on my own.
This BMR driver would be a very straight forward solution. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/speaker-drivers/876...

Use it in a 6.0 litre cabinet with a single 30mm diameter port........60mm long.

Sound quality of these BMR full range drivers is excellent.........the only real drawback is their relatively low efficiency and consequently their maximum volume capability. They produce 81dB for 1w input and have 30w power handling. This gives them a continuous max output of capability 96dB and 99dB on peaks. Still pretty loud but maybe not what you're looking for.........

https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/16b9/09007...

The BMR drivers are clever and propagate sound using the best benefits of moving coil and modal principles; consequently they're capable of genuine full range performance with an excellent high frequncy 'power response'. Power response is important and many conventional full range drivers simply cannot cannot deliver a good power response at the higher frequencies............they're rubbish at it tbh.

Edited by Crackie on Sunday 13th October 13:52
You obviously know what you're talking about, but can I really pay £12 for a 100mm speaker and get a good result? Sees very cheap and very small given everyone else has linked to £100-£1000s worth of stuff!

If these are that good, how well will they work as ceiling speakers if I can find a grill to go over them? I have some cheap ceiling speakers, which are OK, but I was looking to swap them for something better and add a few more while I still have access to run wires above.
The BMR drivers are good and have been used on well respected and very expensive products, check out the price of these Naims eekhttps://www.whathifi.com/news/naim-reveals-flagshi... they are £30k a pair. Cambridge Audio currently use them on a few of their Hi-Fi products and some of their cinema products too.

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/gbr/en/products/spe...

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/gbr/en/products/spe...

As I mentioned earlier the only real limitation is the maximum sound pressure level with the driver I linked to earlier.

Alternatively you could use two of these, https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/16b9/09007...

wired in parallel, in a 20L enclosure. The port for this would be 50mm diameter and 40mm long. The would make a 4 ohm speaker producing 87dB for 1 watt input. 60W power handling and a max continuous output of 105dB. 108dB on peaks.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/speaker-drivers/876...



Edited by Crackie on Sunday 13th October 22:36

Pinoyuk

422 posts

6 months

Sunday 13th October 2019
quotequote all
This thread has so much “project” about it .I love building speakers and will be ordering a few of these tectonics speakers . I fancy adding a high pass filter to give them a fighting chance and allowing them to skip the daft low stuff.

I am sure other members will be doing the same !
Crackie, you have one hell of a lot to offer . What would be a amazing speaker to build with these ? Stick to one , go for 2 , add a super tweeter , etc etc

paulrockliffe

Original Poster:

9,805 posts

177 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
Crackie said:
paulrockliffe said:
Crackie said:
paulrockliffe said:
Thanks again. I meant Gumtree to get all the speaker bits rather than the cabinets, I'm happy enough building wood/ply/MDF boxes given I've built the rest of the loft conversion on my own.
This BMR driver would be a very straight forward solution. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/speaker-drivers/876...

Use it in a 6.0 litre cabinet with a single 30mm diameter port........60mm long.

Sound quality of these BMR full range drivers is excellent.........the only real drawback is their relatively low efficiency and consequently their maximum volume capability. They produce 81dB for 1w input and have 30w power handling. This gives them a continuous max output of capability 96dB and 99dB on peaks. Still pretty loud but maybe not what you're looking for.........

https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/16b9/09007...

The BMR drivers are clever and propagate sound using the best benefits of moving coil and modal principles; consequently they're capable of genuine full range performance with an excellent high frequncy 'power response'. Power response is important and many conventional full range drivers simply cannot cannot deliver a good power response at the higher frequencies............they're rubbish at it tbh.

Edited by Crackie on Sunday 13th October 13:52
You obviously know what you're talking about, but can I really pay £12 for a 100mm speaker and get a good result? Sees very cheap and very small given everyone else has linked to £100-£1000s worth of stuff!

If these are that good, how well will they work as ceiling speakers if I can find a grill to go over them? I have some cheap ceiling speakers, which are OK, but I was looking to swap them for something better and add a few more while I still have access to run wires above.
The BMR drivers are good and have been used on well respected and very expensive products, check out the price of these Naims eekhttps://www.whathifi.com/news/naim-reveals-flagshi... they are £30k a pair. Cambridge Audio currently use them on a few of their Hi-Fi products and some of their cinema products too.

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/gbr/en/products/spe...

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/gbr/en/products/spe...

As I mentioned earlier the only real limitation is the maximum sound pressure level with the driver I linked to earlier.

Alternatively you could use two of these, https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/16b9/09007...

wired in parallel, in a 20L enclosure. The port for this would be 50mm diameter and 40mm long. The would make a 4 ohm speaker producing 87dB for 1 watt input. 60W power handling and a max continuous output of 105dB. 108dB on peaks.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/speaker-drivers/876...



Edited by Crackie on Sunday 13th October 22:36
Awesome, that's good enough for me! That looks pretty simple to get a really good solution without having to spend a fortune, which was what I was after.

Thanks!

paulrockliffe

Original Poster:

9,805 posts

177 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
Also, I love that those drivers are listed in the "Office Supplies" section!

paulrockliffe

Original Poster:

9,805 posts

177 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
Any recommendations for sound-deadening to line the cabinets with?

Crackie

4,388 posts

192 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
Any recommendations for sound-deadening to line the cabinets with?
Lightweight well damped panels are the way if you're making an enclosure to cover mid and upper frequencies. Lots of info online about the theory behind this based upon research carried out by the BBC many years ago.

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silent-Coat-187x250mm-Dea...

Edited by Crackie on Monday 14th October 14:10

paulrockliffe

Original Poster:

9,805 posts

177 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
Perfect, I have a box of that sat waiting to go in a car I'm building.

Does it matter what I make the cabinets from? I don't mind buying stuff, but I have loads of spare stuff already, everything from 12 MDF, 22mm Chipbaord through to 45mm C24 timber.

Pinoyuk

422 posts

6 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
Crackie , Is the technology used in this speaker the same as the NAIM unit . OR NAIM actually using this unit?

The 4.ohm units would be like my old keg units (Uniq’s) I had in a old Audi. They had a great sound

Crackie

4,388 posts

192 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
Perfect, I have a box of that sat waiting to go in a car I'm building.

Does it matter what I make the cabinets from? I don't mind buying stuff, but I have loads of spare stuff already, everything from 12 MDF, 22mm Chipbaord through to 45mm C24 timber.
If you have various different materials available I would suggest using 2 or more of them. The reason for this is that different materials and material thicknesses resonate at different frequencies; iirc Tannoy have used this principle with their DMT range ( Differential Material Technology ). Chipboard sounds better than MDF because MDF is a relatively homogenious material; consequently it rings. You could make a xylophone using MDF blocks. Chipboard is not homogenious, it has two hard outer skins with a weak internal Weetabix layer. The internal layer is irregular which has better damping than MDF.

Marine ply is a pretty good compromise if you have any; relatively thin panels with loads of damping give the best results. Thin panels store less energy than big heavy panels and the energy they do store is released quickly.

paulrockliffe

Original Poster:

9,805 posts

177 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
I can do marine ply in 6mm, 12mm, 18mm and 25mm, I have some of everything lying around really.

I think we're in danger of going far beyond what I realistically need again, but this is been a great thread and I'm looking forward to building my £20k speakers for pennies!

lufbramatt

3,628 posts

84 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
Re. The drivers, most of the drivers even in pretty high end stuff aren’t anything special. They just spec materials that look nice for the cones to make them look expensive. Coated paper works very very well but doesn’t look as nice as a plastic cone with carbon effect moulded into it. One of the suppliers I work with also moulds driver cones for a well respected British loudspeaker company, the parts are worth pennies.

If you’re putting any bracing inside the cabinets put it off centre to help stop the sides resonating.

I did a big project on loudspeaker design at uni. Would have loved to have got into the industry. If you’re going to stuff the cabinets (damps the sound waves, makes the driver behave as if it’s in a bigger cabinet) then sheeps fleece has the biggest effect IIRC.

Crackie

4,388 posts

192 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
Pinoyuk said:
Crackie , Is the technology used in this speaker the same as the NAIM unit . OR NAIM actually using this unit?

The 4.ohm units would be like my old keg units (Uniq’s) I had in a old Audi. They had a great sound
NAIM could well be using a BMR which is optimised for mids and HF because their product uses conventional moving coil bass drivers too; I'd be surprised if they aren't using a bespoke BMR for their flagship.

The BMR tech is the same though ( pistonic movement at low frequencies, just like a conventional moving coil driver........higher up in the range they behave more like an NXT panel ). Its the modal high frequencies which produces the fantastic HF dispersion off axis..........this results in the great power response.



Crackie

4,388 posts

192 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
I can do marine ply in 6mm, 12mm, 18mm and 25mm, I have some of everything lying around really.

I think we're in danger of going far beyond what I realistically need again, but this is been a great thread and I'm looking forward to building my £20k speakers for pennies!
12mm should be fine with the damping..............let us know how you get on Paul. Good luck.

Your post reminded me that I designed a pair of speakers, 4 or 5 years ago, that I haven't built yet. The thread has given me a prod to pick things up again; I bought the 4 bass/mid drivers back in 2013 but didn't buy the HF drivers and horns. It all took a back seat when I moved house in 2015.

The simulations give a spec of 102dB @ 1m distance for only 1 watt input and a continuous output of 122dB per speaker and 125dB for a pair. This will deliver approx 112dB at the listening position, 5 metres away. This horn type efficiency does make things fun.........



Edited by Crackie on Sunday 20th October 10:39

Pinoyuk

422 posts

6 months

Monday 14th October 2019
quotequote all
Crackie


Where does all this knowledge come from ? ! In the last post you mentioned the DSP crossovers and the H/F units . Any clues what these might be etc ?


I could spend days building speakers . I always loved it years ago playing with some early AR stuff (38 years ago !) One question more , what amps do you think are good fun for little money .Do you like the SMSL stuff etc ?.


Thanks