Star Wars eps. 1-3 - a change of view
Discussion
Halb said:
Lightsabre fights without story are boring no matter how fancy they are. Overuse of them got very repetitive, especially when they were used like swords and the aim of the fight seemed to be to hit the other persons sabre. One of the problems with ill thought out duels.
I always thought that Obi Wans technique of switching his sabre off and on was very clever, and came from thinking of the lightsabre as it's own weapon and not a sword.
I still do not get why some of the Jedi hold them in the classic sword ready position on their right, they have to weight they don't need to be swung. Complete lack of thought of what they are holding I suppose
Also...and this will sound super geeky....how do they actually hold, balance and swing a lightsaber like a sword when the 'light' part would have no mass and all the weight is in the hilt?? I always thought that Obi Wans technique of switching his sabre off and on was very clever, and came from thinking of the lightsabre as it's own weapon and not a sword.
I still do not get why some of the Jedi hold them in the classic sword ready position on their right, they have to weight they don't need to be swung. Complete lack of thought of what they are holding I suppose
I think that's one mistake where we can let Lucas off!
Halb said:
Lightsabre fights without story are boring no matter how fancy they are. Overuse of them got very repetitive, especially when they were used like swords and the aim of the fight seemed to be to hit the other persons sabre. One of the problems with ill thought out duels.
I always thought that Obi Wans technique of switching his sabre off and on was very clever, and came from thinking of the lightsabre as it's own weapon and not a sword.
I still do not get why some of the Jedi hold them in the classic sword ready position on their right, they have to weight they don't need to be swung. Complete lack of thought of what they are holding I suppose
Plus they have no hand guards. So really you'd just slide your blade down the other guy's and amputate his hands. I always thought that Obi Wans technique of switching his sabre off and on was very clever, and came from thinking of the lightsabre as it's own weapon and not a sword.
I still do not get why some of the Jedi hold them in the classic sword ready position on their right, they have to weight they don't need to be swung. Complete lack of thought of what they are holding I suppose
JonRB said:
Halb said:
Lightsabre fights without story are boring no matter how fancy they are. Overuse of them got very repetitive, especially when they were used like swords and the aim of the fight seemed to be to hit the other persons sabre. One of the problems with ill thought out duels.
I always thought that Obi Wans technique of switching his sabre off and on was very clever, and came from thinking of the lightsabre as it's own weapon and not a sword.
I still do not get why some of the Jedi hold them in the classic sword ready position on their right, they have to weight they don't need to be swung. Complete lack of thought of what they are holding I suppose
Plus they have no hand guards. So really you'd just slide your blade down the other guy's and amputate his hands. I always thought that Obi Wans technique of switching his sabre off and on was very clever, and came from thinking of the lightsabre as it's own weapon and not a sword.
I still do not get why some of the Jedi hold them in the classic sword ready position on their right, they have to weight they don't need to be swung. Complete lack of thought of what they are holding I suppose
The fight in ANH between Darth and Obi Won was based on Kendo so it doesn't look as flashy but is actually a more realistic depiction of how a lightsaber would be used.
Frankly, the only decent prequel is Episode III. It's the only one with that sense of bleak tragedy that adds extra depth to the original Star Wars trilogy and lifts it out of Flash Gordon territory.
Episode One seriously grates, especially with the idea of 'midichlorians' explaining away The Force (I preferred the idea of a kind of religion-cum-martial-art).
However, the main, jarring irritation about Episode 1 is this:
Anakin builds C-3PO, which makes him a one-off. This also explains why he looks half-finished.
So why is it that there are several similar protocol droids in the later films, all with identical bodywork?
Episode One seriously grates, especially with the idea of 'midichlorians' explaining away The Force (I preferred the idea of a kind of religion-cum-martial-art).
However, the main, jarring irritation about Episode 1 is this:
Anakin builds C-3PO, which makes him a one-off. This also explains why he looks half-finished.
So why is it that there are several similar protocol droids in the later films, all with identical bodywork?
Twincam16 said:
Frankly, the only decent prequel is Episode III. It's the only one with that sense of bleak tragedy that adds extra depth to the original Star Wars trilogy and lifts it out of Flash Gordon territory.
That's ironic because the charm of the original trilogy is that they are in the Flash Gordon territory and the prequel trilogy moves away from that and is worse for it. I think the main problem with the prequels is they suffer from "MOAR!!!" syndrome.
MOAR LIGHTSABERS!!
MOAR space battles!
MOAR lasers!
MOAR pew pew pew!
MOAR special effects!
There is so much s
t happening on screen at any one time you just go "meh" and become numb to it. 
Guvernator said:
The fight in ANH between Darth and Obi Won was based on Kendo so it doesn't look as flashy but is actually a more realistic depiction of how a lightsaber would be used.
Was it? I didn't know that but it is one of my fave duels. It just looks like they are there to do each other in instead of twirl around like fairies. As well as telling a story as well.Halb said:
Was it? I didn't know that but it is one of my fave duels. It just looks like they are there to do each other in instead of twirl around like fairies. As well as telling a story as well.
Yep, I read in an interview once that the stunt cordinator used Kendo as the basis for that fight. Kendo concentrates on delivering a killing blow in as quick and efficient a manner as possible for several reasons. Swinging a sword can get tiring very quickly for one and secondly why would you want to prolong a fight any longer then necesssry hence the very short and direct killings blows seen in that fight scene. Kendo bouts are often conlcuded within a matter of seconds. While the duels in the prequels may look a lot flashier, the techniques used aren't very effective at all.
Guvernator said:
JonRB said:
Halb said:
Lightsabre fights without story are boring no matter how fancy they are. Overuse of them got very repetitive, especially when they were used like swords and the aim of the fight seemed to be to hit the other persons sabre. One of the problems with ill thought out duels.
I always thought that Obi Wans technique of switching his sabre off and on was very clever, and came from thinking of the lightsabre as it's own weapon and not a sword.
I still do not get why some of the Jedi hold them in the classic sword ready position on their right, they have to weight they don't need to be swung. Complete lack of thought of what they are holding I suppose
Plus they have no hand guards. So really you'd just slide your blade down the other guy's and amputate his hands. I always thought that Obi Wans technique of switching his sabre off and on was very clever, and came from thinking of the lightsabre as it's own weapon and not a sword.
I still do not get why some of the Jedi hold them in the classic sword ready position on their right, they have to weight they don't need to be swung. Complete lack of thought of what they are holding I suppose
The fight in ANH between Darth and Obi Won was based on Kendo so it doesn't look as flashy but is actually a more realistic depiction of how a lightsaber would be used.
Also i read somewhere, perhaps wiki that in some of the books vader used a fighting style where he would vary the length of his sabre in order to catch his opponent of guard.
I've been watching the clone wars cartoons...surprisingly quite good.
and getting quite dark.. they are exploring the clones/stormtroopers alot more.
They have some of them deserting...
also friendly fire.. never happened before with starwars..
Episode 1 will be a stinker forever.
and getting quite dark.. they are exploring the clones/stormtroopers alot more.
They have some of them deserting...
also friendly fire.. never happened before with starwars..
Episode 1 will be a stinker forever.
Edited by Streps on Saturday 21st January 08:33
These films could have been so good!
I really didn't like the way they used their light sabres, too much jumping around like ninjas.
When watched at the cinema they seemed okay but the more I have seen them the more disappointed I am. They are no way near as good as the original films, they only good bit for me in the 3rd film is that Anakin gets chopped up
BenM77 said:
they only good bit for me in the 3rd film is that Anakin gets chopped up
But even that raped the original trilogy. First time Luke meets Obi-Wan, the latter fondly reminisces about how Anakin was a good friend. However, if you'd cut off your friend's legs and an arm and watched him get horribly burned in front of you and then walked away to leave him to die without even giving him a mercy killing, I very much doubt that years down the line you'd remember him fondly. You'd probably look rather uncomfortable and have not wanted to talk about it much.
Nom de ploom said:
wasn't the idea that each jedi had a slightly different fighting technique, stance, etc....?
It was a deliberate effort to give each non speaking jedi some form of distinction iirc...
Perhaps. But you'd think they'd have unique weapons too. For a guy with tentacles for hair, a lightsaber is a total liability. The same goes for Yoda - his diminutive size makes a lightsaber tactically disadvantageous. It was a deliberate effort to give each non speaking jedi some form of distinction iirc...
And on that subject, Yoda fighting Dooko with a lightsaber also completely rapes the original trilogy (sorry to use that phrase again). Yoda tells Luke that "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship" (Source: IMDB)
Yet when it comes down to it, Yoda and Dooku reach a stalemate with the Force and duke it out with lightsabers. Where size *does* matter. Where the "crude matter" (ie. flesh and bones) do matter as it is physical fight. Yoda has a teeny-tiny lightsaber and is at a massive disadvantage and has to bounce around like a rubber ball to even get close. It just rips up the whole mysticism of the Force and the above quote and then s
ts on it and sprinkles it in glitter. And it's not even real glitter; it's put on post-production with CGI.Edited by JonRB on Saturday 21st January 17:25
JonRB said:
Nom de ploom said:
wasn't the idea that each jedi had a slightly different fighting technique, stance, etc....?
It was a deliberate effort to give each non speaking jedi some form of distinction iirc...
Perhaps. But you'd think they'd have unique weapons too. For a guy with tentacles for hair, a lightsaber is a total liability. The same goes for Yoda - his diminutive size makes a lightsaber tactically disadvantageous. It was a deliberate effort to give each non speaking jedi some form of distinction iirc...
And on that subject, Yoda fighting Dooko with a lightsaber also completely rapes the original trilogy (sorry to use that phrase again). Yoda tells Luke that "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship" (Source: IMDB)
Yet when it comes down to it, Yoda and Dooku reach a stalemate with the Force and duke it out with lightsabers. Where size *does* matter. Where the "crude matter" (ie. flesh and bones) do matter as it is physical fight. Yoda has a teeny-tiny lightsaber and is at a massive disadvantage and has to bounce around like a rubber ball to even get close. It just rips up the whole mysticism of the Force and the above quote and then s
ts on it and sprinkles it in glitter. And it's not even real glitter; it's put on post-production with CGI.Edited by JonRB on Saturday 21st January 17:25
These films had cinema impact IMO, but no real substance like the original films.
Watch the fight scene between Luke and Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi without getting goosebumps ! There isn't a scene like that in any of the new films.
Edited by BenM77 on Saturday 21st January 18:06
BenM77 said:
Watch the fight scene between Luke and Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi without getting goosebumps !
Exactly. That lightsaber dual externalises the conflict between Luke and Vader. Luke's technique falls apart as anger and rage take over... you feel the emotion, the tension and conflict. They fact that they are using lightsabers is secondary to the drama of what is happening. In the prequel trilogy they are just lightsaber battles. The focus is on the fighting, not on what it symbolises. They're just action sequences. Just like Ryan vs Dorkman.
(And before anyone hauls me up on this, I know I am mostly just regurgitating Plinkett. But he makes such good points that they are worth repeating for those that haven't waded through them as they are very long)
(Edit: Although the analogy of sprinkling CGI glitter on a turd was my own)
(Edit: Although the analogy of sprinkling CGI glitter on a turd was my own)
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