Discussion
I don't get why Tony leases land out. And good land at that. Is it really that critical he gets as much money as he can ASAP? Why not mine it yourself and extend the years you have mining by years. Gives his kids and kids kids something to do for years to come.
Also, there's no way the dredges are scraping the bedrock like he always bangs on about.
Also, there's no way the dredges are scraping the bedrock like he always bangs on about.
And Tony does it cheaply, spending a fraction of the amount the others spend on diesel and labour.
As far as building a new dredge, I dont think it would be cheaper. The replacement bucket line and new winching system for dredge 1 was $1m from memory, which seems expensive when its cost him $2m for complete dredge 2. Ok it will cost him a few million more to move it and get it working, but to design and build something from scratch would cost 10's of millions as every single item is bespoke and specialist.
As far as building a new dredge, I dont think it would be cheaper. The replacement bucket line and new winching system for dredge 1 was $1m from memory, which seems expensive when its cost him $2m for complete dredge 2. Ok it will cost him a few million more to move it and get it working, but to design and build something from scratch would cost 10's of millions as every single item is bespoke and specialist.
I do wonder why they didn't just pay an engineering company to copy the old one. Given he shelled out $1m on the rusty hulk, that would have bought a lot of metal, especially given that they now have the casting patterns for the excavator buckets. What is seems to boil down to is Tony (or maybe the TV company's) obsession with using family for everything. In this instance screwing up a perfectly good barge several times, and before that buying a vessel that was totally useless for the job. Better to get a professional river pilot to ship out known good gear and get on with building it, and then generating knocking on half a million bucks of gold a week.
Zoobeef said:
I don't get why Tony leases land out. And good land at that. Is it really that critical he gets as much money as he can ASAP? Why not mine it yourself and extend the years you have mining by years. Gives his kids and kids kids something to do for years to come.
Also, there's no way the dredges are scraping the bedrock like he always bangs on about.
Because they don't talk about the costs on the show. Also, there's no way the dredges are scraping the bedrock like he always bangs on about.
When you factor in the cost of all the equipment and labour that Parker uses to mine the land, he's not taking home anywhere near the headline gold numbers from his mining operation.
Have you noticed how Monica keeps turning in 200 Oz clean ups with a seemingly minimal crew and equipment? That's because she's mining much better land.
Zad said:
I do wonder why they didn't just pay an engineering company to copy the old one. Given he shelled out $1m on the rusty hulk, that would have bought a lot of metal, especially given that they now have the casting patterns for the excavator buckets. What is seems to boil down to is Tony (or maybe the TV company's) obsession with using family for everything. In this instance screwing up a perfectly good barge several times, and before that buying a vessel that was totally useless for the job. Better to get a professional river pilot to ship out known good gear and get on with building it, and then generating knocking on half a million bucks of gold a week.
Dredge 2 is much bigger than dredge 1. I think you'd be surprised at how much it would cost to build one from scratch. He makes out its a big investment taking the dredge down and moving it, but really all his costs are 3 people's wages, the barge he bought, and fuel. Compared to building a new one its nothing.
Condi said:
Dredge 2 is much bigger than dredge 1.
I think you'd be surprised at how much it would cost to build one from scratch. He makes out its a big investment taking the dredge down and moving it, but really all his costs are 3 people's wages, the barge he bought, and fuel. Compared to building a new one its nothing.
And the supposed £1 million or so he paid for it in the first placeI think you'd be surprised at how much it would cost to build one from scratch. He makes out its a big investment taking the dredge down and moving it, but really all his costs are 3 people's wages, the barge he bought, and fuel. Compared to building a new one its nothing.
Sway said:
A million would buy a new one. It's really not complex at all, and only the buckets are remotely unusual.
The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
They says last week that he had a full set of buckets cast brand new. Not cheap that. The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
TTmonkey said:
Sway said:
A million would buy a new one. It's really not complex at all, and only the buckets are remotely unusual.
The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
They says last week that he had a full set of buckets cast brand new. Not cheap that. The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
The game has changed massively in the last decade from that perspective.
Also, seeing as that's the only specialist component, if you're doing that you might as well get new everything else for not much extra. Most is 'off the shelf' (although likely not sitting waiting in inventory!), and the design isn't exactly complex.
Edited by Sway on Tuesday 30th January 22:47
Sway said:
A million would buy a new one. It's really not complex at all, and only the buckets are remotely unusual.
The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
I think you have no idea how much stuff cost - Tony spend $600k on the new winches and control for dredge 1, and even then all he did was replace 4 mechanical winches with a hydraulic pump and 4 hydraulic winches. You really dont get much for your money The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
According to an actual gold miner, a new dredge in 1981 would have cost $4m, which is $10.7m in 2017, and then you've probably got a further million dollars to get it shipped to the middle of nowhere.
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/09/14/business/dredgin...
holeCondi said:
Sway said:
A million would buy a new one. It's really not complex at all, and only the buckets are remotely unusual.
The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
I think you have no idea how much stuff cost - Tony spend $600k on the new winches and control for dredge 1, and even then all he did was replace 4 mechanical winches with a hydraulic pump and 4 hydraulic winches. You really dont get much for your money The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
According to an actual gold miner, a new dredge in 1981 would have cost $4m, which is $10.7m in 2017, and then you've probably got a further million dollars to get it shipped to the middle of nowhere.
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/09/14/business/dredgin...
That hydraulic pump and winches pretty much is the dredge. The only other things you need are a couple of hulls, a sluice box, water pump, diesel generator and the bucket line. I'd suggest it'd be exceptionally close to cost neutral - and have far greater capability and reliability. Wouldn't make for great TV though...
We make unique devices (can't say what as it'll make the company very easy to find, and I'll get in trouble!) that are many orders of magnitude greater in complexity - both mechanically, electrically and with a huge bespoke software load. Including possibly the most insane method of transportation you could think of. Easily 30k hours of labour (in the south east, of highly skilled engineers) development time, plus a couple of thousand hours of manufacturing, plus the vast BOM.
Total sales price including transporting halfway across the globe? Somewhere close to $13M.
The game has changed completely since the 80s. Companies then were still paying huge draftsman departments, and having to do a vast amount of trials. Now it's so much more efficient, from a design, fabrication and manufacturing perspective - in fact, from every perspective except salaries and energy.
Edited by Sway on Tuesday 30th January 23:13
Zoobeef said:
I said the exact same thing to my work college last week. Self taught expert my arse, blokes a prick.
I could see where that argument was going right at the start of the "banter".
Dustin really comes across badly. For several years they sold the "diverting the waterfall" story line only for it to end up a lot lamer. Quite liked Carlos despite him saying brutha every other word! Series felt a lot more like series 1 of gold rush which was a good thing.. "shut errrrrrrr dahhhhn" I could see where that argument was going right at the start of the "banter".
Sway said:
A million would buy a new one. It's really not complex at all, and only the buckets are remotely unusual.
The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
I thought that upgrading the hydraulic system alone in the old dredge was $600k and then the buckets was several hundred thousand too, just to get an idea of the kind of costs.The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
I would imagine that Dredge 2 would need all new power systems and bucket chain anyway, just like Dredge 1 did, so effectively that is cost neutral with respect to old vs new. That leaves a load of metal boxes and girders that even the Victorians in the sticks were able to make. No doubt the Beets family would demand that the old engines and motors were fine, right up to the point where it is demonstrated that they lost more than the cost of a new system in gold within the first month or so of breakdowns.
The big cost in this isn't people, even expert engineers. It is lost gold. Dredge 2 could probably rake in half a million a week, even neglecting its increased capacity. Compared to a conventional excavation it is cheap to run (staff, fuel). So pessimistically, 50% profit? Any week that the dredge isn't running is $250k they won't get, and multiply that by a 20 week season. Land to dredge doesn't seem to be a limiting factor in this, but the TV company won't be there forever to subsidise it all. If he had thrown $6M at a new one that was up and running for the 2017 season (cost of the old dredge he bought plus 1 year's lost work) he would still have broken even after the first year. For that, he could have had the thing helicoptered in (practicalities aside). come to think of it, if he hadn't messed around with the various barges he bought, he could probably have done that anyway.
The big cost in this isn't people, even expert engineers. It is lost gold. Dredge 2 could probably rake in half a million a week, even neglecting its increased capacity. Compared to a conventional excavation it is cheap to run (staff, fuel). So pessimistically, 50% profit? Any week that the dredge isn't running is $250k they won't get, and multiply that by a 20 week season. Land to dredge doesn't seem to be a limiting factor in this, but the TV company won't be there forever to subsidise it all. If he had thrown $6M at a new one that was up and running for the 2017 season (cost of the old dredge he bought plus 1 year's lost work) he would still have broken even after the first year. For that, he could have had the thing helicoptered in (practicalities aside). come to think of it, if he hadn't messed around with the various barges he bought, he could probably have done that anyway.
Du1point8 said:
Sway said:
A million would buy a new one. It's really not complex at all, and only the buckets are remotely unusual.
The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
I thought that upgrading the hydraulic system alone in the old dredge was $600k and then the buckets was several hundred thousand too, just to get an idea of the kind of costs.The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
Ructions said:
Du1point8 said:
Sway said:
A million would buy a new one. It's really not complex at all, and only the buckets are remotely unusual.
The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
I thought that upgrading the hydraulic system alone in the old dredge was $600k and then the buckets was several hundred thousand too, just to get an idea of the kind of costs.The rest is a few winches, power take off, and a sluice box (which is fundamentally a big hose over some mesh). Even a one off isn't going to cost major dosh.
Every time a plant goes down they go on about how much gold they have lost.
Given how much gold his son is pulling out of the ground, how much has Tony lost while pissing around with barges etc?
Gold Rush white water is proving to be as good as all the other gold programs.
I.E. lurching from one catastrophe to another.
Fancy leaving all your equipment up there through the winter, and then guess what? its all been washed away.
And then having to go and ask Tod hoffman for a loan. And he lends him $50k, where did that come from given the season he's having?
Looks even more dangerous than gold divers, white water freezing temps, waterfalls, and miles from help.
Got to give Fred his due though, if I can do half of what he can at 72 I'll be more than happy.
I.E. lurching from one catastrophe to another.
Fancy leaving all your equipment up there through the winter, and then guess what? its all been washed away.
And then having to go and ask Tod hoffman for a loan. And he lends him $50k, where did that come from given the season he's having?
Looks even more dangerous than gold divers, white water freezing temps, waterfalls, and miles from help.
Got to give Fred his due though, if I can do half of what he can at 72 I'll be more than happy.
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