Harry's Garage - Youtube
Discussion
Caddyshack said:
Just watched the update on the Jag. Poor Harry having to go back and do all that.
Seems a lot of money for an emerald conversion using old car inlets etc. I know there is a lot of labour.
Should be very good when finished. I wonder how much individual throttle bodies would have cost and if there would be any more power without bespoke cans?
I was a little shocked at another £12k / £14k on top what he has already spent, guessing his wife does not watch the videos Seems a lot of money for an emerald conversion using old car inlets etc. I know there is a lot of labour.
Should be very good when finished. I wonder how much individual throttle bodies would have cost and if there would be any more power without bespoke cans?
Mezzanine said:
wpa1975 said:
I was a little shocked at another £12k / £14k on top what he has already spent, guessing his wife does not watch the videos
I think she films a lot of them!It was sad to see Harry have to give up on the gorgeous original setup he had, understandable but sad.
Did I miss the reason they couldn't get the V12 to work without spending another 5 figure sum on it?
I get that you don't really get a warranty but if I'd already spent a 5 figure sum on the engine, one that presumably worked beforehand I'd expect it to work and if not be made to work.
I guess because the builder mentioned it at the start he's off the hook.
I get that you don't really get a warranty but if I'd already spent a 5 figure sum on the engine, one that presumably worked beforehand I'd expect it to work and if not be made to work.
I guess because the builder mentioned it at the start he's off the hook.
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Friday 17th March 10:39
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Friday 17th March 10:39
ChocolateFrog said:
Did I miss the reason they couldn't get the V12 to work without spending another 5 figure sum on it?
I get that you don't really get a warranty but if I'd already spent a 5 figure sum on the engine, one that presumably worked beforehand I'd expect it to work and if not be made to work.
I guess because the builder mentioned it at the start he's off the hook.
I'd have liked to have seen a happy medium, no reason I can see for not using Harry's gorgeous intake manifolds, as I'm sure they could be adapted to work with the new injector rails?I get that you don't really get a warranty but if I'd already spent a 5 figure sum on the engine, one that presumably worked beforehand I'd expect it to work and if not be made to work.
I guess because the builder mentioned it at the start he's off the hook.
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Friday 17th March 10:39
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Friday 17th March 10:39
Upgrading the electrics makes sense, nothing special lost there.
DuncanM said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Did I miss the reason they couldn't get the V12 to work without spending another 5 figure sum on it?
I get that you don't really get a warranty but if I'd already spent a 5 figure sum on the engine, one that presumably worked beforehand I'd expect it to work and if not be made to work.
I guess because the builder mentioned it at the start he's off the hook.
I'd have liked to have seen a happy medium, no reason I can see for not using Harry's gorgeous intake manifolds, as I'm sure they could be adapted to work with the new injector rails?I get that you don't really get a warranty but if I'd already spent a 5 figure sum on the engine, one that presumably worked beforehand I'd expect it to work and if not be made to work.
I guess because the builder mentioned it at the start he's off the hook.
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Friday 17th March 10:39
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Friday 17th March 10:39
Upgrading the electrics makes sense, nothing special lost there.
I'd have asked them to try harder to keep the big bore intake manifold and throttle body.
Justifying the high cost by saying the wiring is difficult because the ECU is in the boot and the harness is time consuming to install since it's a long way from the engine and a lot of the interior needs removing and replacing also seems unnecessary. Disturbing the interior could be completely eliminated by relocating the new ECU to the engine bay or the passenger compartment/under the dashboard. I understand the fuel pump(s) are at the rear in the tanks but that seems an easily solved problem if there's a bunch of wires already run to the boot..
A top of the range Haltech ECU is £3800 with a full house of functionality. Sequential injection, data logging, dual channel wideband control, dual channel knock control and more input and output channels than he could ever need.
https://www.haltech.com/product/ht-195100-nexus-r5...
Seems like this would be a lot cheaper to install and have a lot more functionality than what he has planned.
Justifying the high cost by saying the wiring is difficult because the ECU is in the boot and the harness is time consuming to install since it's a long way from the engine and a lot of the interior needs removing and replacing also seems unnecessary. Disturbing the interior could be completely eliminated by relocating the new ECU to the engine bay or the passenger compartment/under the dashboard. I understand the fuel pump(s) are at the rear in the tanks but that seems an easily solved problem if there's a bunch of wires already run to the boot..
A top of the range Haltech ECU is £3800 with a full house of functionality. Sequential injection, data logging, dual channel wideband control, dual channel knock control and more input and output channels than he could ever need.
https://www.haltech.com/product/ht-195100-nexus-r5...
Seems like this would be a lot cheaper to install and have a lot more functionality than what he has planned.
DuncanM said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Did I miss the reason they couldn't get the V12 to work without spending another 5 figure sum on it?
I get that you don't really get a warranty but if I'd already spent a 5 figure sum on the engine, one that presumably worked beforehand I'd expect it to work and if not be made to work.
I guess because the builder mentioned it at the start he's off the hook.
I'd have liked to have seen a happy medium, no reason I can see for not using Harry's gorgeous intake manifolds, as I'm sure they could be adapted to work with the new injector rails?I get that you don't really get a warranty but if I'd already spent a 5 figure sum on the engine, one that presumably worked beforehand I'd expect it to work and if not be made to work.
I guess because the builder mentioned it at the start he's off the hook.
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Friday 17th March 10:39
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Friday 17th March 10:39
Upgrading the electrics makes sense, nothing special lost there.
Thought the snakes bit of leads looked a right old mess.
Caddyshack said:
They said that you end up replacing one thing to then chase another problem BUT as above - with a bit of fabrication you could continue with those manifolds although they wanted the other injectors...nothing a bit of tig welding and re-machining wouldnt solve but it then involves another spcialist.
Exactly, there's sound logic behind binning the electrics, weird distributor etc, but the intakes are beautiful, and I don't think it'd be hard to keep them in the system. If I was Harry it'd be a non negotiable to keep them.
I was a bit frustrated at that video and really felt for Harry when he was told he couldn't have what he wanted and would have to spend £10-£12,000 (+ VAT!) to sort it. I think I would have taken it somewhere else for a second opinion. The engine builder bloke seemed too keen to throw it all away and fit his kit.
Gilhooligan said:
Seems like a lot of engine (and fuel consumption) for the anticipated power.
You have to put it in context, it's an engine from the early 1970s, and the original ~285bhp was close to the pinnacle of what could be achieved at that time, V12s from Lamborghini and Ferrari apart (for example). It' s still a bloody lovely engine even by today's standards, refinement is exceptional and it makes a nice growl towards the red line.ChocolateFrog said:
Did I miss the reason they couldn't get the V12 to work without spending another 5 figure sum on it?
I get that you don't really get a warranty but if I'd already spent a 5 figure sum on the engine, one that presumably worked beforehand I'd expect it to work and if not be made to work.
I guess because the builder mentioned it at the start he's off the hook.
I did not quite understand the root of the problem either. It almost seemed as if the builder was trying to blame it on that LucasI get that you don't really get a warranty but if I'd already spent a 5 figure sum on the engine, one that presumably worked beforehand I'd expect it to work and if not be made to work.
I guess because the builder mentioned it at the start he's off the hook.
sensor or whatever with the diaphragm that tended to split. But in reality I guess it is a matter of a combination analog/digital system from 3 or 4 decades ago that is not easily worked on today. And since Harry initially said he wanted to keep everything as it was when he turned over the car to them it is difficult to blame the builder.
(copying the comment I left on the YT video)
If it were me I'd be taking it to Iain Tyrell or elsewhere... I do not know how TL has the bottle to quote a £15k+ "upgrade" after a no doubt ludicrously expensive engine rebuild resulting in what boils down to basically an unsatisfactory outcome.
Great video as usual but here are my reservations about the "upgrade".... The existing system worked prior to the engine rebuild so there is no reason why it shouldn't do now. Yes I am sure there are a combinaton of challenges, each needing a creative solution. The engine work should have included having the existing system tested and subsequently made to work. All running issues post rebuild should have been taken care of under warranty... I would imagine the original rebuild would have cost an extraordinary amount of money.
If this was behind closed doors it would be easy for Harry to negotiate or express concerns/reservations but when it's all there on youtube with thousands of viewers it suddenly gets very awkward.
If it were me I'd be taking it to Iain Tyrell or elsewhere... I do not know how TL has the bottle to quote a £15k+ "upgrade" after a no doubt ludicrously expensive engine rebuild resulting in what boils down to basically an unsatisfactory outcome.
Great video as usual but here are my reservations about the "upgrade".... The existing system worked prior to the engine rebuild so there is no reason why it shouldn't do now. Yes I am sure there are a combinaton of challenges, each needing a creative solution. The engine work should have included having the existing system tested and subsequently made to work. All running issues post rebuild should have been taken care of under warranty... I would imagine the original rebuild would have cost an extraordinary amount of money.
If this was behind closed doors it would be easy for Harry to negotiate or express concerns/reservations but when it's all there on youtube with thousands of viewers it suddenly gets very awkward.
Llew said:
If this was behind closed doors it would be easy for Harry to negotiate or express concerns/reservations but when it's all there on youtube with thousands of viewers it suddenly gets very awkward.
Well, it's Harry's choice to make it public. If he felt he had a grievance with the engine builder, no doubt he'd be handling that privately.I guess the choice is to go with a known solution that the engine builder has recommended all along, which he says will definitely solve the issue, or try to go with developing some new combo of his old manifolds, different injectors etc etc which would certainly cost more from the same bloke. Alternatively, go to someone else entirely to do it, but how long will that take to find such a person and then get it all right ?
Seems like HM has just decided to chuck some money at it to get a solution faster, which doesn't seem such a bad idea at this point.
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