Harry's Garage - YouTube

[timrud]

Be really interested to see a video from you Harry on the new Euro 7 regulations

[anonymous-user]

M4SER said:

SWoll said:

And as above, if your priority is range you buy the LR. If your priority is cost you buy the RWD. You have choice.

The changes they've made to the performance in order to make it a better drivers car and distinct from the other models have affected efficiency, which seem a fair trade off to me. Assuming it'll still do 3-3.5 miles/kWh in the real world then 250 miles should be achievable, which IME is perfectly acceptable.

Harry's obsession with efficiency has never made any sense to me. Assuming you can charge at home then even the most inefficient EV is a cheap as chips to charge, and very few drivers are doing 200+ mile trips regularly enough for absolute range to be anything more than an occasional nuisance that can easily be planned for.

Wow, Tesla Model 3 review has stoked up plenty of interesting debate, both on the channel and on here!

Regarding my focus on efficiency when reviewing the occasional EV, I do it because the sole reason behind the push to EV was to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions but the marketing focus on today's EVs seems to be all about performance, hence why we've ended up with 900bhp family SUVs like the Lotus Eletre. I don't see such vehicles as a great way to reverse climate change, it's time legislators stepped in with targets for EV efficiency, instead of pretending if it's powered solely by electric, that's all that's needed.

Having driven plenty of the latest gen PHEV and EV, I'm also yet to accept you can make a satisfying driver's EV, which is why I find the new Aston Martin Vantage a more interesting car than the latest Porsche Taycan Turbo S. It's interesting to see the almost complete lack of buyer's interest in the recent crop of electric hypercars, for example, which I think are a dead-end in marketing terms.

What I look for in an EV is clever engineering, as that translates into efficiency over general use. It's dead easy to make an EV fast (simply add more powerful motors) or have a decent range (fit a bigger battery) but efficiency in the form of miles per kWh travelled is much harder to do. One of the main reasons we ended up driving SUVs in the UK was because diesel made them affordable to run. I now want to see manufactures do the same for electric SUVs with clever engineering and I think styling might have to radically change as a Defender or G-Wagon body style is not a good starting point.

All of which brings us back to the Model 3, which I wanted to review because it is surprisingly efficient. Add in the Tesla Supercharger network and it's very easy to see why they are so popular in the marketplace. Legacy manufacturers are using their styling heritage to sell EVs but I think we still need a major efficiency breakthrough before sales really start to take off.

I think decent EV drivers cars are imminent. But it’ll come from cheap cars up - rather than high end cars down.

Apologies for the long quote, I’m hungover on a train and can’t work it out.

[DonkeyApple]

WestyCarl said:

For ICE vehicles I would agree, ultimate efficency is the last thing premium customers consider.

However for EV, "ultimate efficency" means potentially less time at some bland service station outside Reading waiting for the vehicle to charge.

Off course the lack of "efficency" (or range as it used to be refered to) can be offset by a bigger battery, but this just means longer charrging times when you need to.

Yup but the folks who pay big money so they have to hang out at the services must want that in their life. For everyone else we just use a different car to eliminate such horrors. As a general rule, these cars will do 100 miles at speed so as long as the destination has a charger and a good menu then it's not an issue anyway.

[Dr Interceptor]

I've ordered one of the new Electric MINIs, one of the J01 Cooper SE's that have just come out (yes, the ones built in China).

I do around 150-200 miles a week, mostly short trips around town. I'm currently running around in my 1998 Mercedes SL500, and despite its large fuel tank, it's only getting around 15mpg around town, so only 200 miles per tank - so I'm putting £110 of V-Power in it every week ( don't trust E10 fuel in it), plus I don't think all the short trips are good for the car.

The new MINIs have a WLTP range of around 250 miles, so I'm guessing it should get close to 200ish, which means I can get away with just one or two charges a week - which I can do at work.

For running around town, they seem ideal.

[smithyithy]

WestyCarl said:

The Tesla M3 .

[otolith]

Yes, very confusing and difficult to know when someone says "Tesla M3" whether they are talking about a Tesla Model 3 or a BMW M3. Almost impossible to be sure.

[smithyithy]

More the fact that there's a Tesla Model 3, and there's a BMW M3. Two brands, two models. There is no Tesla M3 and it saves milliseconds at best typing it instead of Model 3

ETA: It definitely feels like an American thing that's spread out, though. On the main cars Subreddits, the Americans absolutely love their abbreviations, eg. a Focus RS is a FoRS, a Fiesta ST is a FiST etc..

I'm letting this bother me more than it should

Edited by smithyithy on Thursday 25th April 11:55

[greenarrow]

Dr Interceptor said:

I've ordered one of the new Electric MINIs, one of the J01 Cooper SE's that have just come out (yes, the ones built in China).

I do around 150-200 miles a week, mostly short trips around town. I'm currently running around in my 1998 Mercedes SL500, and despite its large fuel tank, it's only getting around 15mpg around town, so only 200 miles per tank - so I'm putting £110 of V-Power in it every week ( don't trust E10 fuel in it), plus I don't think all the short trips are good for the car.

The new MINIs have a WLTP range of around 250 miles, so I'm guessing it should get close to 200ish, which means I can get away with just one or two charges a week - which I can do at work.

For running around town, they seem ideal.

Totally agree with you and the electric Mini appeals to me. Much better to have an EV for short urban journeys where the engine never gets the chance to properly warm up. I'm sure EVs are brilliant for zipping into gaps too, something lag ridden turbo diesels for example, struggle with in town driving.

[DonkeyApple]

Dr Interceptor said:

I've ordered one of the new Electric MINIs, one of the J01 Cooper SE's that have just come out (yes, the ones built in China).

I do around 150-200 miles a week, mostly short trips around town. I'm currently running around in my 1998 Mercedes SL500, and despite its large fuel tank, it's only getting around 15mpg around town, so only 200 miles per tank - so I'm putting £110 of V-Power in it every week ( don't trust E10 fuel in it), plus I don't think all the short trips are good for the car.

The new MINIs have a WLTP range of around 250 miles, so I'm guessing it should get close to 200ish, which means I can get away with just one or two charges a week - which I can do at work.

For running around town, they seem ideal.

I think that if you have a driveway, another car, lots of your daily driving is sub 50 miles and in the market for new or nearly new then the EV has already passed the point of being the better solution. And given the vast number of such households then the ZEV mandate for the next 5/6 years just isn't any kind of hurdle for a competitive manufacturer. Even the sub 200 mile intra day round trip isn't an issue and the cost savings presented are manifest.

For the U.K. the jog in to 2035 really is pretty flat ground and will see the third party plug points being added that the post 2035 switchers are more likely to be reliant on.

The key is to not go sprinting early nor think that you don't even you have to partake of under 60.

We even have the option in the U.K. to slip on 2035 if the economic mobility of some transpires to be hindered too much with temporary exemptions on say the cheapest and most efficient ICE. We don't, after all need everyone to switch as the target is for a net result not gross.

And we have electricity ubiquity, a small land mass and targets for renewable energy are ticking along well with our absolutely prime coastline, it's geology and our geography being off the west coast of the Asian peninsula and a massive ocean to the west.

A final big bonus is that we have already deindustrialised and paid that heavy cost at a time when the developing nations were expanding massively economically and whether any car manufacturers fail is just not our problem and we will just import from another supplier.

Compared to our direct economic peers and competitors we're laughing and the switch will be a huge economic advantage over them. But because were great neighbours we will help them out with their troubles and take a clip on every euro and yen as we help with lending, accounting and consulting.

[ntiz]

soxboy said:

It’s been several years now that Tesla has been in the marketplace with cars that have (relatively) light weight, outstanding straight line performance and very good efficiency, coupled to an unrivalled charging network.

And yet here we are many years later with the legacy manufacturers still miles behind.

Just think if, as a starting point, Stellantis VAG and JLR clubbed together and developed a European network of chargers like Tesla? That could move take-up massively forward.

They have, pretty much all the big players except JLR are involved in IONITY network which is as big if not bigger in Europe than Tesla. All 350kw chargers so faster than Tesla as well.

For me the major difference between Tesla and the rest which is quite under rated is their mapping software is miles ahead. I have had Tesla for 10 years, have 3 at the moment, my dad just got Taycan. I can get in my wife’s Model Y put anywhere you want in the sat nav and it will work it out exactly which charges, how long to charge with spooky accuracy. The Taycan on the other hand tries but regularly fails to map decent routes using the network effectively. Like it has tried to take my Dad to 50kw chargers on long trips before.

Also the Tesla network is very reliable between my father and I we must have done thousands of charges across Europe and UK. We have only come across one stall not working and that was fixed while we were there. It’s been 4 months with the Taycan already had issues with chargers not working.

I probably sound like i really like EVs I don’t means to an end that I am trying to get away from. I daily drive a GT4 while the rest of my family has EVs.

[ChocolateFrog]

dobly said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Most manufacturers won't make what they can't sell.

Look at Honda, they've made some cracking cars like the first Insight and the Honda E but the one they're going to make money on will be that stupidly named one that costs £200pm. ENy.1 or something like that.

I don’t like Honda’s chances of selling many of those - it just isn’t a Jazz or a Civic Type R or a CR-V - it’s a nothing from what I have seen and read, and no better than any of it’s distinctly underwhelming direct competitors. Could be another nail in the coffin for Honda in the UK if there are no follow-up EVs soon. Will probably sell well in parts of Asia and in a few other locations around the globe.

I've seen more of them than I have of Honda E's already.

I was thinking earlier that someone at work has a Citroën Ami.

That's exactly what Harry is talking about yet that's the only one I've ever seen.

Can't think why

[Olivera]

DonkeyApple said:

We even have the option in the U.K. to slip on 2035 if the economic mobility of some transpires to be hindered too much with temporary exemptions on say the cheapest and most efficient ICE. We don't, after all need everyone to switch as the target is for a net result not gross.

The 2035 can is certain to be kicked down the road. In fact if any PHer is willing to take me up on it, I'm willing to bet £100 to charity that it happens

[ChocolateFrog]

I would have loved to convert my Insight into a full EV when the original hybrid battery finally died.

Shame that I didn't have the time or resources to do it justice but a 750-850kg car with a low and slippery shape and circa 120-150hp with a modest sized battery would be an absolute hoot.

It was good enough to drive as standard. 6 miles per kWh should be achievable so a 30kWh battery would be enough for a decent range.

Would cost a fortune to pay someone else to do it though.

[ChocolateFrog]

Olivera said:

DonkeyApple said:

We even have the option in the U.K. to slip on 2035 if the economic mobility of some transpires to be hindered too much with temporary exemptions on say the cheapest and most efficient ICE. We don't, after all need everyone to switch as the target is for a net result not gross.

The 2035 can is certain to be kicked down the road. In fact if any PHer is willing to take me up on it, I'm willing to bet £100 to charity that it happens

Will be interesting to see the way the no confidence vote in Yusef goes seeing as that's been brought about entirely because of these arbitrary climate pledges.

[cerb4.5lee]

smithyithy said:

More the fact that there's a Tesla Model 3, and there's a BMW M3. Two brands, two models. There is no Tesla M3 and it saves milliseconds at best typing it instead of Model 3

ETA: It definitely feels like an American thing that's spread out, though. On the main cars Subreddits, the Americans absolutely love their abbreviations, eg. a Focus RS is a FoRS, a Fiesta ST is a FiST etc..

I'm letting this bother me more than it should

Edited by smithyithy on Thursday 25th April 11:55

You also never know...and Tesla might actually do it properly one day, and actually put engines into their cars, rather than all this messing/faffing around with batteries!

[NomduJour]

cerb4.5lee said:

You also never know...and Tesla might actually do it properly one day, and actually put engines into their cars, rather than all this messing/faffing around with batteries!

Fisker Karma > VL Destino

(V8 Teslas have been done)

[DonkeyApple]

Olivera said:

DonkeyApple said:

We even have the option in the U.K. to slip on 2035 if the economic mobility of some transpires to be hindered too much with temporary exemptions on say the cheapest and most efficient ICE. We don't, after all need everyone to switch as the target is for a net result not gross.

The 2035 can is certain to be kicked down the road. In fact if any PHer is willing to take me up on it, I'm willing to bet £100 to charity that it happens

But not in its entirety. It'll slip if it needs to be it'll be done in a way that won't assist this who want to keep buying new ICE but just those who cannot buy a new EV and run it due to low income. Ie, someone will need to apply for the right to purchase a Motobility type object.

The true issue is loony local barons of the devolved powers. They are the people trying to force change in the least affluent car users and as the majority of low income earners exist in their serfdoms then they're screwed if they genuinely can't switch to EV as these local policy makers have to date run bottom up policies against cars, specifically targeting the least well off.

[otolith]

The tanker has already been turned round, I don't think manufacturers will be lobbying to move 2035 when we're closer to it and all their product plans are aligned to it.

[Shiv_P]

smithyithy said:

More the fact that there's a Tesla Model 3, and there's a BMW M3. Two brands, two models. There is no Tesla M3 and it saves milliseconds at best typing it instead of Model 3

ETA: It definitely feels like an American thing that's spread out, though. On the main cars Subreddits, the Americans absolutely love their abbreviations, eg. a Focus RS is a FoRS, a Fiesta ST is a FiST etc..

I'm letting this bother me more than it should

Edited by smithyithy on Thursday 25th April 11:55

I propose:
Tesla Mod3

[Doofus]

TesMoS
Tesmo3 (TesMoB)
TesmoX
TesMoY
TeswankerTruck
etc