24 Hours in Police Custody: Ch4

Author
Discussion

Greendubber

12,609 posts

197 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
eccles said:
Tony Angelino said:
eccles said:
Hammer67 said:
I if were in charge of the world, if you answered no comment at interview then the 24 hours custody limit would simply extend endlessly until you decided to actually talk.
Whilst its very frustrating for the Police, I have no problem with it at all.

It goes back to some core values of right to silence and innocent until proved guilty.
The state, i.e the police, say you've done something wrong, which can lead to life changing consequences, under our current laws the weight falls on the state to prove what they accuse you of, you are under no obligation to help them do it.
Wasn't the overwhelming consensus on here after the recentish episode when the fella chased the robbers who ended up dead after a RTA that the only sensible course of action if you're 'innocent' was to go no comment to prevent plod from sneakily using what you say against you?
Exactly.
There's nothing sneaky about it as it's explained upon arrest and caution that anything you do say, may be given in evidence. It means exactly that.

pocketspring

3,909 posts

15 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
Bring back the 80's when the flying squad used to beat a confession out of you. biglaugh

sjc

13,317 posts

264 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
Greendubber said:
eccles said:
Tony Angelino said:
eccles said:
Hammer67 said:
I if were in charge of the world, if you answered no comment at interview then the 24 hours custody limit would simply extend endlessly until you decided to actually talk.
Whilst its very frustrating for the Police, I have no problem with it at all.

It goes back to some core values of right to silence and innocent until proved guilty.
The state, i.e the police, say you've done something wrong, which can lead to life changing consequences, under our current laws the weight falls on the state to prove what they accuse you of, you are under no obligation to help them do it.
Wasn't the overwhelming consensus on here after the recentish episode when the fella chased the robbers who ended up dead after a RTA that the only sensible course of action if you're 'innocent' was to go no comment to prevent plod from sneakily using what you say against you?
Exactly.
There's nothing sneaky about it as it's explained upon arrest and caution that anything you do say, may be given in evidence. It means exactly that.
Unfortunately the scumbag multiple offenders know exactly whats coming and barely panic and screw up,the innocent or first time offender (accidental or other wise) does likely panic,is acutely uncomfortable continually replying "no comment" or simply does not know how to play it, so it's not a level playing field anymore.
The amount of time the "no comment" scenarios take up must drive the police insane. Having said that, I've never yet seen an interview in the series where I've thought "that was a clever question" or there was subtle changes of tone to glean some info out.

monthefish

20,418 posts

225 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
Maybe I have no heart, but I had zero sympathy for the 'victim', (and even less than zero sympathy when it was revealed he'd be involved in exactly the same crime himself!!!).
I was shocked to see the DI even shed a wee tear for him. WTF?
Then there was the statement by the 'the victims' family member at the end of the programme - I wonder if his view might have been different if another of his family members had been on the receiving end of the same crime Saul had perpetrated?



dogma6 said:
Scrump said:
I looked away for a bit and then saw the lady in the red top being arrested.
Is she the same person who was doing the internet dating and propped the door open?
Yes
When you saw the state of her when she was being arrested, you wonder how she managed to Honeytrap anyone...hehe

Greendubber

12,609 posts

197 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
sjc said:
Greendubber said:
eccles said:
Tony Angelino said:
eccles said:
Hammer67 said:
I if were in charge of the world, if you answered no comment at interview then the 24 hours custody limit would simply extend endlessly until you decided to actually talk.
Whilst its very frustrating for the Police, I have no problem with it at all.

It goes back to some core values of right to silence and innocent until proved guilty.
The state, i.e the police, say you've done something wrong, which can lead to life changing consequences, under our current laws the weight falls on the state to prove what they accuse you of, you are under no obligation to help them do it.
Wasn't the overwhelming consensus on here after the recentish episode when the fella chased the robbers who ended up dead after a RTA that the only sensible course of action if you're 'innocent' was to go no comment to prevent plod from sneakily using what you say against you?
Exactly.
There's nothing sneaky about it as it's explained upon arrest and caution that anything you do say, may be given in evidence. It means exactly that.
Unfortunately the scumbag multiple offenders know exactly whats coming and barely panic and screw up,the innocent or first time offender (accidental or other wise) does likely panic,is acutely uncomfortable continually replying "no comment" or simply does not know how to play it, so it's not a level playing field anymore.
The amount of time the "no comment" scenarios take up must drive the police insane. Having said that, I've never yet seen an interview in the series where I've thought "that was a clever question" or there was subtle changes of tone to glean some info out.
The best advice for anyone is to get legal representation, there are occasions when an account is better than saying nothing.

Legacywr

Original Poster:

11,344 posts

182 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
eccles said:
You say " to be undertaking that kind of venture and not even demonstrating the most basic attempt to conceal your identity is incredibly stupid,"
one had his hood up, mask on and looked down as he passed the camera, then they went and cleaned the car. Even the police woman said they must be forensically aware as they used their shoulders to open the door, not their hands.
Everybody knows not to leave fingerprints etc, I actually chuckled a bit when she said that. Only a moron, or someone off their tits would wear a rare item of clothing during a premeditated crime.

pocketspring

3,909 posts

15 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
I'm going to phone up Moncler and tell them I'm a detective investigating a crime and I need one of their jackets for a reconstruction.... copbiggrin

Legacywr

Original Poster:

11,344 posts

182 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
You’ll look like £50 on CCTV though…

rohrl

8,621 posts

139 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
Legacywr said:
Everybody knows not to leave fingerprints etc, I actually chuckled a bit when she said that. Only a moron, or someone off their tits would wear a rare item of clothing during a premeditated crime.
I was thinking the same. I’d have worn rubber gloves and a Screwfix boiler suit of which millions have been sold then burnt it afterwards and I’m not even a criminal.

pocketspring

3,909 posts

15 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
Legacywr said:
You’ll look like £50 on CCTV though…
So better then. hehe

Blenkiboy

47 posts

102 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
If it hadn’t all gone terribly wrong Saul might have woken up in the morning and thought ‘fair enough. Essentially swapped a couple of fake watches for a shag and some free drugs.’

bluemason

1,026 posts

117 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
Mezzanine said:
I was thinking about that watching last nights episode.

They said they only sold 69 coats between whatever years it was on sale.

Would a responsible manufacturer hold a single item of each product line sold in the past X number of years for reasons such as this? Or just pure luck they found one hanging around the warehouse?

Interesting either way and certainly goes to show he should have shopped at Tesco for his murder clothing rather than Moncler!
Yeah, the manufacturer can source the jacket if the said jacket can be used to solve the case. It is a seasonal item with a distinctive design.

hungry_hog

2,009 posts

182 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
Surpreet didn't seem to know her watches too well. Maybe she can mug up on it when doing porridge.

She seems to think a Bimetal Daytona was worth about 3k as it's "25 years old"

Obviously the one they stole was a fake, if it was real it would be a bit more than 3k!


PerformanteNonGrata

16 posts

7 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
C5_Steve said:
No I hadn't missed that point at all, they had planned way in advance to drug and rob the guy at knifepoint. All four of them. Whilst the girls may not have expected the guys to arrive tooled up (doubtful, they weren't going to rob him with colourful language were they?), to be undertaking that kind of venture and not even demonstrating the most basic attempt to conceal your identity is incredibly stupid, but you're right they probably (wrongly) assumed as he was out of jail that he wouldn't report it for whatever reasons.

The guys clearly arrived with the intention of causing serious harm. If you turn up somewhere with a knife drawn, you're not coming for a chat. They were perhaps more worried about the guy recognising them than the police investigating which was the point of my comment.

I agree that had it just been a robbery the police wouldn't have undertaken such a thorough investigation. Certainly wouldn't be expensing a Moncleur coat!
Was it established that they brought the knife with them? That wasn't one already in the bedsit/flat?

fourstardan

3,415 posts

138 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
monthefish said:
Maybe I have no heart, but I had zero sympathy for the 'victim', (and even less than zero sympathy when it was revealed he'd be involved in exactly the same crime himself!!!).
I was shocked to see the DI even shed a wee tear for him. WTF?
Then there was the statement by the 'the victims' family member at the end of the programme - I wonder if his view might have been different if another of his family members had been on the receiving end of the same crime Saul had perpetrated?
I was 80/20 siding 20% sympathy, only because he was trying to go straight and working.

It's amazing how much social media can build an image of someone because that's all they had to identify what this guy was like and a CCTV film of him dying.

Caught up on the Part 2 tonight, what a couple of numbskull idiots these blokes were with the car tracked (surely they signed a waiver for this?), petrol station cleaning, trouble is we have hundreds of people walking around doing this and moving onto bigger crimes.









snowman99

375 posts

141 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
PerformanteNonGrata said:
C5_Steve said:
No I hadn't missed that point at all, they had planned way in advance to drug and rob the guy at knifepoint. All four of them. Whilst the girls may not have expected the guys to arrive tooled up (doubtful, they weren't going to rob him with colourful language were they?), to be undertaking that kind of venture and not even demonstrating the most basic attempt to conceal your identity is incredibly stupid, but you're right they probably (wrongly) assumed as he was out of jail that he wouldn't report it for whatever reasons.

The guys clearly arrived with the intention of causing serious harm. If you turn up somewhere with a knife drawn, you're not coming for a chat. They were perhaps more worried about the guy recognising them than the police investigating which was the point of my comment.

I agree that had it just been a robbery the police wouldn't have undertaken such a thorough investigation. Certainly wouldn't be expensing a Moncleur coat!
Was it established that they brought the knife with them? That wasn't one already in the bedsit/flat?
The two guys seemed like the sort that might have a knife down their pants.
But related to that, they took a lot of precautions if it was just meant to be another robbery, hiding faces, burner phone only etc, makes you wonder if the murderer guy really had a plan all along, maybe the others weren’t in on it. It seems a lot of precautions to take for a robbery where they thought the victim wouldn’t go to the police.

clio007

516 posts

219 months

Wednesday 22nd March
quotequote all
snowman99 said:
PerformanteNonGrata said:
C5_Steve said:
No I hadn't missed that point at all, they had planned way in advance to drug and rob the guy at knifepoint. All four of them. Whilst the girls may not have expected the guys to arrive tooled up (doubtful, they weren't going to rob him with colourful language were they?), to be undertaking that kind of venture and not even demonstrating the most basic attempt to conceal your identity is incredibly stupid, but you're right they probably (wrongly) assumed as he was out of jail that he wouldn't report it for whatever reasons.

The guys clearly arrived with the intention of causing serious harm. If you turn up somewhere with a knife drawn, you're not coming for a chat. They were perhaps more worried about the guy recognising them than the police investigating which was the point of my comment.

I agree that had it just been a robbery the police wouldn't have undertaken such a thorough investigation. Certainly wouldn't be expensing a Moncleur coat!
Was it established that they brought the knife with them? That wasn't one already in the bedsit/flat?
The two guys seemed like the sort that might have a knife down their pants.
But related to that, they took a lot of precautions if it was just meant to be another robbery, hiding faces, burner phone only etc, makes you wonder if the murderer guy really had a plan all along, maybe the others weren’t in on it. It seems a lot of precautions to take for a robbery where they thought the victim wouldn’t go to the police.
Good point.
Burner phone is probably something the guy has anyway if he is involved in crime.I think switching the phone off perhaps isn't normal if the plan was a robbery all along.

Maybe there is more to the story than meets the eye

Its Just Adz

13,335 posts

203 months

Thursday 23rd March
quotequote all
It was a pretty shocking case!
The main girl really boiled my blood for some reason, I do hope she serves the entire 10 years.

fourstardan

3,415 posts

138 months

Thursday 23rd March
quotequote all
Indeed shocking.

It may had come as a shock to the second bloke and young girl when charged but truth is they had all been getting away with crime for years, it may had not dawned on them what numbskulls they were involved with.

Does any of this stop knife crime in society?

Vasco

15,512 posts

99 months

Thursday 23rd March
quotequote all
Its Just Adz said:
It was a pretty shocking case!
The main girl really boiled my blood for some reason, I do hope she serves the entire 10 years.
Agreed, a nasty piece of work. I wonder if someone with a history like her can be a proper mother to her 3 children ?