Making A Murderer ***CONTAINS SPOILERS***
Discussion
I'm on the fence with Steven as others are, I do think even without some of the fanciful stuff from the defence enough doubt has been cast regardless
Brendan should not be in prison imo
With regard to the Police Dept. I was on the jury this year for a case that was so shockingly put together we wondered how it ever got to court, took us 15 mins to clear defendant of 15 charges
We then learnt about his previous record and did muse amongst ourselves whether the Police just wanted him inside and so would try any case to achieve that
Brendan should not be in prison imo
With regard to the Police Dept. I was on the jury this year for a case that was so shockingly put together we wondered how it ever got to court, took us 15 mins to clear defendant of 15 charges
We then learnt about his previous record and did muse amongst ourselves whether the Police just wanted him inside and so would try any case to achieve that
Thesprucegoose said:
some of it is fanciable. cut on his finger, ninja comes in to steal blood whilst still wet....
the lawyer also says it wasn't the police doing stitch up, then it is... Showboating
I think regarding your comment about the police -the lawyer also says it wasn't the police doing stitch up, then it is... Showboating
Up until that point in the show her and her team are focussed on the Radandt property and have a soft theory that the owner is likely to be involved in some way; which is why they were meeting him on the property.
They meet him, he is pretty open and gives them some information they were not aware of - specifically that the pelvis bone is not on his property and the comment about the police wanting him to give testimony that the fire was larger.
So they leave his place developing a new theory. Fair enough.
I think they are both innocent. Brendan seems absolutely screwed. If nothing else this shows that you are better off keeping your mouth shut. They had absolutely no evidence on him at all and it looks likely his conviction will take longer to overturn than Steven's.
I think this is where people get confused, it is not innocent or gulity, it is not gulity or not gulity.
The court is not the place to prove innocence. The whole conspiracy thing is b
ks, someone got killed and burnt very near to there place. The family has an idea who did it. Generally the last person to see the victim is the murderer.
I feel for the victim's family it feels like some victorian freak show, at best season 2 adds little value to 1 and was only made to satisfy the armchair detectives hunger.
It is also clear we don't see the full picture of the perps, to cloud our judgment the show is there to show they are not guilty which is biased really.
The court is not the place to prove innocence. The whole conspiracy thing is b
ks, someone got killed and burnt very near to there place. The family has an idea who did it. Generally the last person to see the victim is the murderer.I feel for the victim's family it feels like some victorian freak show, at best season 2 adds little value to 1 and was only made to satisfy the armchair detectives hunger.
It is also clear we don't see the full picture of the perps, to cloud our judgment the show is there to show they are not guilty which is biased really.
Thesprucegoose said:
I think this is where people get confused, it is not innocent or gulity, it is not gulity or not gulity.
The court is not the place to prove innocence. The whole conspiracy thing is bks, someone got killed and burnt very near to there place. The family has an idea who did it. Generally the last person to see the victim is the murderer.
Only generally?The court is not the place to prove innocence. The whole conspiracy thing is b
ks, someone got killed and burnt very near to there place. The family has an idea who did it. Generally the last person to see the victim is the murderer.Dr Jekyll said:
Only generally?
I don't know statistics, but from watching procedural dramas it is. But I'm sure someone can rebutt it. There are holes both sides, but to say he is innocent is massively short sighted. He probably did it or knew who did it. I mean the parents who look like they live there, never heard a girl screaming,being shot and then burnt. Yes if could be the bogieman but most people being burnt would be noticed.
The job of the lady latest is to raise doubts but it is like a shotgun approach and raises more questions that answers as she seems to pick and choose who it could be, the police, the ex bf, the neighbour etc..
Thesprucegoose said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Only generally?
I don't know statistics, but from watching procedural dramas it is. But I'm sure someone can rebutt it. There are holes both sides, but to say he is innocent is massively short sighted. He probably did it or knew who did it. I mean the parents who look like they live there, never heard a girl screaming,being shot and then burnt. Yes if could be the bogieman but most people being burnt would be noticed.
The job of the lady latest is to raise doubts but it is like a shotgun approach and raises more questions that answers as she seems to pick and choose who it could be, the police, the ex bf, the neighbour etc..
Avery was mainly hooked on Brendans confession.....
If that confession was proved to be false then Avery is off.....
Police the really are in the s
t.....If the whole thing was made up to look like Avery did it, then that she was shot on the farm and burned is open to question....
People will do crazy things to save themselves from ruin... this is how corruption works and how people get together to save penions and jobs en mass and cover up paedofile gangs for decades.......no limit to what people will do....
ape x said:
...Avery was mainly hooked on Brendans confession.....
If that confession was proved to be false then Avery is off....
Not true at all.If that confession was proved to be false then Avery is off....
The confession was deemed inadmissible at the Avery trial.
You should really google "things that making a murderer left out" or similar.
The program misses a lot of key evidence completely.
On balance, I think he did it. I'm not so certain of Dassey's involvement though.
Thesprucegoose said:
I think this is where people get confused, it is not innocent or gulity, it is not gulity or not gulity.
The court is not the place to prove innocence. The whole conspiracy thing is bks, someone got killed and burnt very near to there place. The family has an idea who did it. Generally the last person to see the victim is the murderer.
I feel for the victim's family it feels like some victorian freak show, at best season 2 adds little value to 1 and was only made to satisfy the armchair detectives hunger.
It is also clear we don't see the full picture of the perps, to cloud our judgment the show is there to show they are not guilty which is biased really.
Nope I think they are innocent. What ever the terminology used in court might be. The court is not the place to prove innocence. The whole conspiracy thing is b
ks, someone got killed and burnt very near to there place. The family has an idea who did it. Generally the last person to see the victim is the murderer.I feel for the victim's family it feels like some victorian freak show, at best season 2 adds little value to 1 and was only made to satisfy the armchair detectives hunger.
It is also clear we don't see the full picture of the perps, to cloud our judgment the show is there to show they are not guilty which is biased really.
We don’t know who the last person to see her was. We do know she left the Avery property.
I think it adds a considerable amount to S1 because it so consistently undermined the forensic case against Steven, and the narrative supplied by the prosecutors.
You don’t seem to be able to follow an evolving story very well. Of course Kathleen is open to possibilities about who did it. As she gets new information she shifts focus.
The ex boyfriend having the diary for example means he must have been involved. As I said previously the Radandt property owner was obviously in the picture until they met him, Bobby Dassey was no where until they checked his computer etc etc
That is exactly what I would expect.
Edited by gregs656 on Tuesday 23 October 13:33
Edited by gregs656 on Tuesday 23 October 13:35
It is certainly intriguing. I'm on the fence but possibly leaning on the side he didn't do it. Given the evidence of the latest series I certainly couldn't convict him.
I find it odd that if he were guilty then SA would not be happy for Kathleen to keep digging around, offering to do lie detectors, that brain wave test etc.
Also interesting the bits from later in the series of the witness who informed the likely bent cop about the Rav 4 and rather than reporting it, went and checked it out and kept schtum.
Also the ex boyfriend refusing to talk to the investigators now having been so into helping the police at the time and the other family members going ape st when it was hinted their story was bull is iffy behaviour.
I find it odd that if he were guilty then SA would not be happy for Kathleen to keep digging around, offering to do lie detectors, that brain wave test etc.
Also interesting the bits from later in the series of the witness who informed the likely bent cop about the Rav 4 and rather than reporting it, went and checked it out and kept schtum.
Also the ex boyfriend refusing to talk to the investigators now having been so into helping the police at the time and the other family members going ape s
t when it was hinted their story was bull is iffy behaviour.zygalski said:
Not true at all.
The confession was deemed inadmissible at the Avery trial.
You should really google "things that making a murderer left out" or similar.
The program misses a lot of key evidence completely.
On balance, I think he did it. I'm not so certain of Dassey's involvement though.
A lot of the "things that making a murderer left out" are addressed in season 2.The confession was deemed inadmissible at the Avery trial.
You should really google "things that making a murderer left out" or similar.
The program misses a lot of key evidence completely.
On balance, I think he did it. I'm not so certain of Dassey's involvement though.
I thought after series 1 they were both not guilty, but series two is making it look even more like the evidence was made to fit to make sure of a conviction - After all, they were just about to be on the receiving end of a huge payout ($37 million I seem to remember) which the officers would have been liable for..
How Brendan is still locked up is beyond me, but I feel for him, because as others have said, it looks less likely for him to released tan it does for SA..
Ken Kratz... dodgy as a dodgy thing on a very dodgy day - I was reading about him recently and after "giving up" is role as chief prosecutor for "sexting" he apparently set up a law firm, but his license has been suspended for not paying his dues or keeping up with required training.. It also seems odd to me that he is 1) making money out of the investigation by way of his book and 2) won't just step away from the case, almost as if he needs to stay involved to keep to help keep up the pretense.. I'm pretty sure he knows, along with many of the other officers and investigators involved know exactly what happened.. one of them will crack and reveal the truth eventually
As for the ex-boyfriend.. way too much dodgy going on with him, especially as he access to her apartment immediately after her disappearance.. Her brother also seems very strange to me.,, you never see her parents, but he is always somehow involved.
Oh and how are the police getting DNA traces of such high levels, when all of the independent tests can't get anywhere near the same levels that police did, even when they are essentially trying to force the tests to get to the same result.. 1/10th the amount on one case (the key)
How Brendan is still locked up is beyond me, but I feel for him, because as others have said, it looks less likely for him to released tan it does for SA..
Ken Kratz... dodgy as a dodgy thing on a very dodgy day - I was reading about him recently and after "giving up" is role as chief prosecutor for "sexting" he apparently set up a law firm, but his license has been suspended for not paying his dues or keeping up with required training.. It also seems odd to me that he is 1) making money out of the investigation by way of his book and 2) won't just step away from the case, almost as if he needs to stay involved to keep to help keep up the pretense.. I'm pretty sure he knows, along with many of the other officers and investigators involved know exactly what happened.. one of them will crack and reveal the truth eventually
As for the ex-boyfriend.. way too much dodgy going on with him, especially as he access to her apartment immediately after her disappearance.. Her brother also seems very strange to me.,, you never see her parents, but he is always somehow involved.
Oh and how are the police getting DNA traces of such high levels, when all of the independent tests can't get anywhere near the same levels that police did, even when they are essentially trying to force the tests to get to the same result.. 1/10th the amount on one case (the key)
zygalski said:
ape x said:
...Avery was mainly hooked on Brendans confession.....
If that confession was proved to be false then Avery is off....
Not true at all.If that confession was proved to be false then Avery is off....
The confession was deemed inadmissible at the Avery trial.
You should really google "things that making a murderer left out" or similar.
The program misses a lot of key evidence completely.
On balance, I think he did it. I'm not so certain of Dassey's involvement though.
They got Brendan to make stuff up to fit into a made up narrative which ended up putting a false picture in public's mind about what happened...
If they needed to do that then i believe they would of gone to the other lengths to lock up Avery...
It really doesn't shed a good light on the way the police went about it does it. Brendan 'confession' was made up via the police... why?
That Kratz press conference when he made up all the crap about what they did to murder girl, the shackled to the bed crap. I mean come on, knowing now Kratz's perversions i can see he is getting off on his made up story.....
ape x said:
I am saying from my point of view on the case not the daft US legal systems angle.
They got Brendan to make stuff up to fit into a made up narrative which ended up putting a false picture in public's mind about what happened...
If they needed to do that then i believe they would of gone to the other lengths to lock up Avery...
It really doesn't shed a good light on the way the police went about it does it. Brendan 'confession' was made up via the police... why?
That Kratz press conference when he made up all the crap about what they did to murder girl, the shackled to the bed crap. I mean come on, knowing now Kratz's perversions i can see he is getting off on his made up story.....
I think the point about Brendan was that by telling him she was shot in the head and asking 'was it you or Steven?' he'd naturally say 'Steven shot her in the head'. Brendan's 'confession' to shooting her wasn't expected.They got Brendan to make stuff up to fit into a made up narrative which ended up putting a false picture in public's mind about what happened...
If they needed to do that then i believe they would of gone to the other lengths to lock up Avery...
It really doesn't shed a good light on the way the police went about it does it. Brendan 'confession' was made up via the police... why?
That Kratz press conference when he made up all the crap about what they did to murder girl, the shackled to the bed crap. I mean come on, knowing now Kratz's perversions i can see he is getting off on his made up story.....
Ive just finished watching part 2 and I'm basically gutted about the ending. My dumb Netflix went back to the start of part 1 so I watched the first episode again thinking it would go somewhere but it didn't obviously.
Although it did make me start to think again that we have not heard anything about his wife or kids.
So yeah what the hell has happened. I thought OB1kenobi's Sister was doing well but then it just stopped. How frustrating. I'm assuming he is still locked up then? Are they planning on a part 3 too?
I didn't like the new GF one bit especially as she started talking about being on the show when she was outside the prison waiting to go see him for the first time.
Laura Nirider appeared to be doing really well but then when OB1kenobi's Sister said if you leave any question unanswered in an oral hearing like that then you're in trouble, I knew it wasn't going to be a winner.
Anyway I really liked OB1kenobi's Sister. She had a really good attitude, talked sense and was better than anything I have ever seen on suits. She made the show for me. She has to get her victory in the end - if she lives long enough.
Although it did make me start to think again that we have not heard anything about his wife or kids.
So yeah what the hell has happened. I thought OB1kenobi's Sister was doing well but then it just stopped. How frustrating. I'm assuming he is still locked up then? Are they planning on a part 3 too?
I didn't like the new GF one bit especially as she started talking about being on the show when she was outside the prison waiting to go see him for the first time.
Laura Nirider appeared to be doing really well but then when OB1kenobi's Sister said if you leave any question unanswered in an oral hearing like that then you're in trouble, I knew it wasn't going to be a winner.
Anyway I really liked OB1kenobi's Sister. She had a really good attitude, talked sense and was better than anything I have ever seen on suits. She made the show for me. She has to get her victory in the end - if she lives long enough.
Finished s2 last night, one thing learnt was the US legal system is a bit odd to say the least. As said here, the least guilty looking of the 2 is Brendan but it look more likely he has no options for appeal than Steven.
May have missed it, but what happened with the 36mil payout after the first case?
What was interesting from the last (?) episode was the interview with the coroner, shame she didn't use her powers during the investigation at the Avery's.
May have missed it, but what happened with the 36mil payout after the first case?
What was interesting from the last (?) episode was the interview with the coroner, shame she didn't use her powers during the investigation at the Avery's.
Edited by scrw. on Friday 26th October 09:10
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