White House Farm murders - ITV series
Discussion
Oakey said:
"as any sane person who did it to inherit the lot would clearly act as you’d expect let time pass then you’ve got the lot."
Aye, because sane people regularly murder 5 people, including two 6yr olds...
Right so you are stating anyone who has murdered one or more people with the expected outcome of inheriting it cannot act sane? Aye, because sane people regularly murder 5 people, including two 6yr olds...
Serial killers by their very nature have an ability to hide in plain sight.
Eg
Dennis Neilson
Beverley Allit
Jeffery Dahmer
Harold Shipman
John Gacy
Ted Bundy
"as any sane person who did it to inherit the lot would clearly act as you’d expect let time pass then you’ve got the lot."
Aye, because sane people regularly murder 5 people, including two 6yr olds...
Why would the police look any further if they'd murdered Jeremy as well? They'd already planned to stage the scene to make it look like Sheila killed everyone so what does it matter if their plan was to include Jeremy? If they're capable of killing five then they're certainly capable of killing six.
You're suggesting that they came up with an elaborate plan to kill everyone but Jeremy, make it look like Sheila did it (why would you do this if your ultimate goal is to frame Jeremy?), force Neville to phone Jeremy to say Sheila had gone mad (thus further cementing your narrative that Sheila did it). This plan then requires the police not to accept that Sheila did it (which they initially did, oops), hope they investigate Jeremy, hope you can successfully frame him for the murders, and then hope he's found guilty at trial (assuming they're successful in getting him charged to begin with). It's too complex, there are too many unknowns that can cause this daft plan to fail.
Unlike if Jeremy did it which simply requires him to murder everyone and make it look like Sheila did it and hope they accept that narrative (which they did, goal achieved).
Aye, because sane people regularly murder 5 people, including two 6yr olds...
Why would the police look any further if they'd murdered Jeremy as well? They'd already planned to stage the scene to make it look like Sheila killed everyone so what does it matter if their plan was to include Jeremy? If they're capable of killing five then they're certainly capable of killing six.
You're suggesting that they came up with an elaborate plan to kill everyone but Jeremy, make it look like Sheila did it (why would you do this if your ultimate goal is to frame Jeremy?), force Neville to phone Jeremy to say Sheila had gone mad (thus further cementing your narrative that Sheila did it). This plan then requires the police not to accept that Sheila did it (which they initially did, oops), hope they investigate Jeremy, hope you can successfully frame him for the murders, and then hope he's found guilty at trial (assuming they're successful in getting him charged to begin with). It's too complex, there are too many unknowns that can cause this daft plan to fail.
Unlike if Jeremy did it which simply requires him to murder everyone and make it look like Sheila did it and hope they accept that narrative (which they did, goal achieved).
Oakey said:
"as any sane person who did it to inherit the lot would clearly act as you’d expect let time pass then you’ve got the lot."
Aye, because sane people regularly murder 5 people, including two 6yr olds...
Why would the police look any further if they'd murdered Jeremy as well? They'd already planned to stage the scene to make it look like Sheila killed everyone so what does it matter if their plan was to include Jeremy? If they're capable of killing five then they're certainly capable of killing six.
You're suggesting that they came up with an elaborate plan to kill everyone but Jeremy, make it look like Sheila did it (why would you do this if your ultimate goal is to frame Jeremy?), force Neville to phone Jeremy to say Sheila had gone mad (thus further cementing your narrative that Sheila did it). This plan then requires the police not to accept that Sheila did it (which they initially did, oops), hope they investigate Jeremy, hope you can successfully frame him for the murders, and then hope he's found guilty at trial (assuming they're successful in getting him charged to begin with). It's too complex, there are too many unknowns that can cause this daft plan to fail.
Unlike if Jeremy did it which simply requires him to murder everyone and make it look like Sheila did it and hope they accept that narrative (which they did, goal achieved).
Perhaps they were intending on killing everyone - but Jeremy arrived late / didn’t go inside the house. Aye, because sane people regularly murder 5 people, including two 6yr olds...
Why would the police look any further if they'd murdered Jeremy as well? They'd already planned to stage the scene to make it look like Sheila killed everyone so what does it matter if their plan was to include Jeremy? If they're capable of killing five then they're certainly capable of killing six.
You're suggesting that they came up with an elaborate plan to kill everyone but Jeremy, make it look like Sheila did it (why would you do this if your ultimate goal is to frame Jeremy?), force Neville to phone Jeremy to say Sheila had gone mad (thus further cementing your narrative that Sheila did it). This plan then requires the police not to accept that Sheila did it (which they initially did, oops), hope they investigate Jeremy, hope you can successfully frame him for the murders, and then hope he's found guilty at trial (assuming they're successful in getting him charged to begin with). It's too complex, there are too many unknowns that can cause this daft plan to fail.
Unlike if Jeremy did it which simply requires him to murder everyone and make it look like Sheila did it and hope they accept that narrative (which they did, goal achieved).
He called the police which maybe they didn’t expect - who knows why not- and they arrived far sooner than expected.
No one has ever answered the question why when Jeremy was with the police and none of the police were in the house did they hear movement in the house?
So missed killing Jeremy then pointed out all the oddities in the case like the latch only Jeremy could know that (well turns out so could the cousins too... oh yes they knew about it too maybe they found it or maybe they knew).
Why were the cousins all over the house after the police left? It’s nothing to do with them. Coming and going as they please is very odd
"Okay Welshbeef, I've got a cunning plan to get our hands on my fathers sizeable estate. We're going to kill him, my sister and her two kids, but not my brother..."
"Not your brother? But won't you have to split the inheritance with him?"
"Shush. We're going to make it look like my sister killed everyone. At some point in this plan, before killing him, we'll force my father to phone my brother to say my sister has gone mad. We'll then go to elaborate lengths to make it look like this is exactly what happened, including making it look like the house was locked up tight with no way for anyone to get in or out.."
"But what if the police accept this version of events, what about your brother?"
"why would the police simply accept my sister killed everyone before killing herself?"
"Well, you're going to such lengths to make it look that way..."
"Let me finish telling you this elaborate plan, it'll all make sense. If the police do believe my sister is responsible, then we're going to frame my brother for it..."
"This sounds complicated, why not just force your father to get your brother to come to the house and kill him at the same time, making it look like your sister did it? After all, we're going to such lengths to make it look like she did it anyway...."
"No no, we're going to set him up for the murders and staged murder-suicide"
"But what if the police are adamant your sister did it and don't think he was involved?"
"Don't worry about that, we'll make it work"
"But how?"
"We're going to set him up.."
"Yeah, you keep saying that but how?"
"We'll take an active role in directing the police towards him"
"But what if they don't investigate or charge him?"
"They will..."
"Okay, but what if he isn't found guilty at trial?"
"He will be!"
"Wouldn't it be easier to just frame him or murder him from the outset instead of going to the trouble of making it look like your sister did it?"
"No!"
"Gee, I don't know Oakey, this sounds rather convoluted..."
"It's the perfect plan Welshy!"
"Not your brother? But won't you have to split the inheritance with him?"
"Shush. We're going to make it look like my sister killed everyone. At some point in this plan, before killing him, we'll force my father to phone my brother to say my sister has gone mad. We'll then go to elaborate lengths to make it look like this is exactly what happened, including making it look like the house was locked up tight with no way for anyone to get in or out.."
"But what if the police accept this version of events, what about your brother?"
"why would the police simply accept my sister killed everyone before killing herself?"
"Well, you're going to such lengths to make it look that way..."
"Let me finish telling you this elaborate plan, it'll all make sense. If the police do believe my sister is responsible, then we're going to frame my brother for it..."
"This sounds complicated, why not just force your father to get your brother to come to the house and kill him at the same time, making it look like your sister did it? After all, we're going to such lengths to make it look like she did it anyway...."
"No no, we're going to set him up for the murders and staged murder-suicide"
"But what if the police are adamant your sister did it and don't think he was involved?"
"Don't worry about that, we'll make it work"
"But how?"
"We're going to set him up.."
"Yeah, you keep saying that but how?"
"We'll take an active role in directing the police towards him"
"But what if they don't investigate or charge him?"
"They will..."
"Okay, but what if he isn't found guilty at trial?"
"He will be!"
"Wouldn't it be easier to just frame him or murder him from the outset instead of going to the trouble of making it look like your sister did it?"
"No!"
"Gee, I don't know Oakey, this sounds rather convoluted..."
"It's the perfect plan Welshy!"
Oakey said:
"Okay Welshbeef, I've got a cunning plan to get our hands on my fathers sizeable estate. We're going to kill him, my sister and her two kids, but not my brother..."
"Not your brother? But won't you have to split the inheritance with him?"
"Shush. We're going to make it look like my sister killed everyone. At some point in this plan, before killing him, we'll force my father to phone my brother to say my sister has gone mad. We'll then go to elaborate lengths to make it look like this is exactly what happened, including making it look like the house was locked up tight with no way for anyone to get in or out.."
"But what if the police accept this version of events, what about your brother?"
"why would the police simply accept my sister killed everyone before killing herself?"
"Well, you're going to such lengths to make it look that way..."
"Let me finish telling you this elaborate plan, it'll all make sense. If the police do believe my sister is responsible, then we're going to frame my brother for it..."
"This sounds complicated, why not just force your father to get your brother to come to the house and kill him at the same time, making it look like your sister did it? After all, we're going to such lengths to make it look like she did it anyway...."
"No no, we're going to set him up for the murders and staged murder-suicide"
"But what if the police are adamant your sister did it and don't think he was involved?"
"Don't worry about that, we'll make it work"
"But how?"
"We're going to set him up.."
"Yeah, you keep saying that but how?"
"We'll take an active role in directing the police towards him"
"But what if they don't investigate or charge him?"
"They will..."
"Okay, but what if he isn't found guilty at trial?"
"He will be!"
"Wouldn't it be easier to just frame him or murder him from the outset instead of going to the trouble of making it look like your sister did it?"
"No!"
"Gee, I don't know Oakey, this sounds rather convoluted..."
"It's the perfect plan Welshy!"
Isles a cunning plan but you didn’t read my post - I said they likely wanted to kill them all but Jeremy didn’t turn up at the time they expected or didn’t enter the house where they were waiting he stayed outside and the police were fast there too. "Not your brother? But won't you have to split the inheritance with him?"
"Shush. We're going to make it look like my sister killed everyone. At some point in this plan, before killing him, we'll force my father to phone my brother to say my sister has gone mad. We'll then go to elaborate lengths to make it look like this is exactly what happened, including making it look like the house was locked up tight with no way for anyone to get in or out.."
"But what if the police accept this version of events, what about your brother?"
"why would the police simply accept my sister killed everyone before killing herself?"
"Well, you're going to such lengths to make it look that way..."
"Let me finish telling you this elaborate plan, it'll all make sense. If the police do believe my sister is responsible, then we're going to frame my brother for it..."
"This sounds complicated, why not just force your father to get your brother to come to the house and kill him at the same time, making it look like your sister did it? After all, we're going to such lengths to make it look like she did it anyway...."
"No no, we're going to set him up for the murders and staged murder-suicide"
"But what if the police are adamant your sister did it and don't think he was involved?"
"Don't worry about that, we'll make it work"
"But how?"
"We're going to set him up.."
"Yeah, you keep saying that but how?"
"We'll take an active role in directing the police towards him"
"But what if they don't investigate or charge him?"
"They will..."
"Okay, but what if he isn't found guilty at trial?"
"He will be!"
"Wouldn't it be easier to just frame him or murder him from the outset instead of going to the trouble of making it look like your sister did it?"
"No!"
"Gee, I don't know Oakey, this sounds rather convoluted..."
"It's the perfect plan Welshy!"
Cunning so that part failed now how to fix the rest make him look insane make sure the police question everything, even show them they way the cousins got in to kill them all but state hey only Jeremy would know that I only discovered it by cleaning the window... hmm
Oakey said:
Do you think they'd have had Neville call Jeremy and say "your sister has gone mad" if their plan was to lure him there? Wouldn't these criminal masterminds have come up with some other reason to get Jeremy to the house that wouldn't involved him calling the police?
Not sure why you so strongly think otherwise - it’s a possible scenario Oakey said:
It's not, because Jeremy did it. He killed them and made it look like Sheila did it, and then he almost succeeded. His plan was simple and effective.
Well jury was 10 guilty 2 innocent. I don’t doubt he did do it - but alternatives are certainly a possibility.
It hung on the Xs statement really didn’t it... and it turned out she took loads of ££ for the Sun interview so how reliable is a bitter X? Who knows.
I don’t get why he claims still to be innocent whereas if he had claimed post sentencing to be guilty he would be a free man some years ago — this is the very odd bit. Can you explain why someone would willingly stay inside prison for life if guilty but claiming innocence? Why would anyone do that?
Pride and ego. He believed his plan was so good that he can't walk it back now and make a fool of himself by admitting he did it.
What does he gain by admitting it? He gets released, then what? No inheritance, no home, no job prospects, etc.
What does he gain by admitting it? He gets released, then what? No inheritance, no home, no job prospects, etc.
Edited by Oakey on Friday 18th September 11:48
Oakey said:
Pride and ego. He believed his plan was so good that he can't walk it back now and make a fool of himself by admitting he did it.
What does he gain by admitting it? He gets released, then what? No inheritance, no home, no job prospects, etc.
Freedom. What does he gain by admitting it? He gets released, then what? No inheritance, no home, no job prospects, etc.
Edited by Oakey on Friday 18th September 11:48
Vastly lower change of being assaulted by a violent inmate - sexual activity with a new partner
Oakey said:
Where are you getting the idea he'd have been released by now if he'd admitted guilt? He might have been eligible for parole but that doesn't mean he'd be released.
Yes eligible for parole vs not eligible for parole if he always pleaded innocent. Sad thing is some innocent people are locked up for life maybe he is one maybe not
If he'd admitted guilt then he would have guaranteed no chance of release before his sentence was up. He'd have faded into obscurity whilst he waited out his 25yr sentence and there'd still be no guarantee he'd get parole once he'd served his 25 years., On top of that he'd forever be known as a definite murderer and child killer.
On the off-chance he was granted parole he'd be homeless, penniless, unemployable and vulnerable.
Maintaining his innocence doesn't harm him but if he's successful at overturning his conviction then there's opportunity to be released much earlier than doing the 25 yrs and he'd also probably be awarded a nice lump in compensation.
Unfortunately, once you commit to the lie it's difficult to backtrack. He could have hardly got to 20yrs and thought "this isn't working, I better say I did it so I might get parole" because they'd see right through him.
On the off-chance he was granted parole he'd be homeless, penniless, unemployable and vulnerable.
Maintaining his innocence doesn't harm him but if he's successful at overturning his conviction then there's opportunity to be released much earlier than doing the 25 yrs and he'd also probably be awarded a nice lump in compensation.
Unfortunately, once you commit to the lie it's difficult to backtrack. He could have hardly got to 20yrs and thought "this isn't working, I better say I did it so I might get parole" because they'd see right through him.
Oakey said:
If he'd admitted guilt then he would have guaranteed no chance of release before his sentence was up. He'd have faded into obscurity whilst he waited out his 25yr sentence and there'd still be no guarantee he'd get parole once he'd served his 25 years., On top of that he'd forever be known as a definite murderer and child killer.
On the off-chance he was granted parole he'd be homeless, penniless, unemployable and vulnerable.
Maintaining his innocence doesn't harm him but if he's successful at overturning his conviction then there's opportunity to be released much earlier than doing the 25 yrs and he'd also probably be awarded a nice lump in compensation.
Unfortunately, once you commit to the lie it's difficult to backtrack. He could have hardly got to 20yrs and thought "this isn't working, I better say I did it so I might get parole" because they'd see right through him.
He’s been inside approaching 40 years and counting On the off-chance he was granted parole he'd be homeless, penniless, unemployable and vulnerable.
Maintaining his innocence doesn't harm him but if he's successful at overturning his conviction then there's opportunity to be released much earlier than doing the 25 yrs and he'd also probably be awarded a nice lump in compensation.
Unfortunately, once you commit to the lie it's difficult to backtrack. He could have hardly got to 20yrs and thought "this isn't working, I better say I did it so I might get parole" because they'd see right through him.
But back when he was convicted he took a gamble;
Admit guilt and guarantee he serves 25 years with the chance he may or may not be granted parole after that and forever be known as a murderer.
Or plead innocence and appeal in the hope he gets released earlier with a nice claim for wrongful conviction.
It didn't pay off.
Look, it's obvious you think he's innocent and no amount of reasoned debate is going to change your mind. Why you want to die on this hill for a convicted murderer and child killer is beyond me. I guess you're just one of those people who hears hooves and thinks zebras instead of horses.
Admit guilt and guarantee he serves 25 years with the chance he may or may not be granted parole after that and forever be known as a murderer.
Or plead innocence and appeal in the hope he gets released earlier with a nice claim for wrongful conviction.
It didn't pay off.
Look, it's obvious you think he's innocent and no amount of reasoned debate is going to change your mind. Why you want to die on this hill for a convicted murderer and child killer is beyond me. I guess you're just one of those people who hears hooves and thinks zebras instead of horses.
Oakey said:
But back when he was convicted he took a gamble;
Admit guilt and guarantee he serves 25 years with the chance he may or may not be granted parole after that and forever be known as a murderer.
Or plead innocence and appeal in the hope he gets released earlier with a nice claim for wrongful conviction.
It didn't pay off.
Look, it's obvious you think he's innocent and no amount of reasoned debate is going to change your mind. Why you want to die on this hill for a convicted murderer and child killer is beyond me. I guess you're just one of those people who hears hooves and thinks zebras instead of horses.
No I don’t he was convicted 10-2 Admit guilt and guarantee he serves 25 years with the chance he may or may not be granted parole after that and forever be known as a murderer.
Or plead innocence and appeal in the hope he gets released earlier with a nice claim for wrongful conviction.
It didn't pay off.
Look, it's obvious you think he's innocent and no amount of reasoned debate is going to change your mind. Why you want to die on this hill for a convicted murderer and child killer is beyond me. I guess you're just one of those people who hears hooves and thinks zebras instead of horses.
But it’s interesting exploring alternative endings - else why have a forum
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