The Miners' Strike 1984: The Battle for Britain
Discussion
Murph7355 said:
He means as a %age of miners overall.
Which is a largely irrelevant stat as it involves a low(er) overall number thanks to the heavier cuts done by previous administrations
.
It's irrelevant because there were other jobs in the country that they could do, but if you take it from their starting points Wilson was 7% and Thatcher was 7.2%. This is despite the fact that those which would have been closed in the 70s were delayed until the 80s because governments were scared of the damage the unions would do and were doing.Which is a largely irrelevant stat as it involves a low(er) overall number thanks to the heavier cuts done by previous administrations
.b0rk said:
It’s somewhat more complex than the miners not realising that Scargill was a wrong un. The union (NUM) was to its members more than just a union but a sense of belonging and in NUM areas core to the mining community. You as miner may not have agreed with a union decision but you’d respect it and follow it as part of your duty to show collective solidarity. Scargill and his acolytes knew this and knew that outside of South Derbyshire and Notts members would come out even if they disagreed with the action.
The culture in pit communities was just completely different to individualism of today.
A close family friend (since deceased) was miner a Markam (Derbyshire). Started down the pit at 16 and only left on grounds of ill health in the late 80’s. He along with most of his colleagues voted in ‘84 not to come out.
However the NUM decided (illegally) that they must come out, so he came out. As that is what his union asked of him to show solidarity.
He stayed out for 10 odd months with little to no support by the union, before having exhausted all his savings and facing repossession of his modest bungalow decided to go back and break the picket lines. The picket lines that had a strong contingent of South Yorks miners shipped in to provide solidarity.
Going back and becoming a “scab” saw many in the village refuse to talk him which continued long after he had retired and the pit closed. The decision to work or not work quite literally divided communities.
Which shows how nasty the unions were, even to their own. He didn't want to go on strike, but others did, so he went with his friends and colleagues. When that decision ate up all his savings and put him on the verge of homelessness, they repaid his loyalty by kicking him to the curb for not going over the edge.The culture in pit communities was just completely different to individualism of today.
A close family friend (since deceased) was miner a Markam (Derbyshire). Started down the pit at 16 and only left on grounds of ill health in the late 80’s. He along with most of his colleagues voted in ‘84 not to come out.
However the NUM decided (illegally) that they must come out, so he came out. As that is what his union asked of him to show solidarity.
He stayed out for 10 odd months with little to no support by the union, before having exhausted all his savings and facing repossession of his modest bungalow decided to go back and break the picket lines. The picket lines that had a strong contingent of South Yorks miners shipped in to provide solidarity.
Going back and becoming a “scab” saw many in the village refuse to talk him which continued long after he had retired and the pit closed. The decision to work or not work quite literally divided communities.
One miner who was interviewed said he didn't strike but when the strikers came to his village and started throwing bricks at them for taking a different decision he did so out of fear. I really can't see why he had any loyalty to them after that but he did seem to.
Mr Penguin said:
Which shows how nasty the unions were, even to their own.
That is how collective solidarity and collectivism works with union membership it’s the bond between you and union. You accept a slight loss of individually in return for the collect might of the union. You just don’t get collectivism vs individuality do you?
There are problems of course where the leadership manage to convince the members to go down a blind alleyway. Much of the UK industrial base destruction can be traced back to unions overplaying their hands.
What Scargill did to the members he represented was wrong and he was like many union “barrons” only after his own self interest. But for every s
t union on a hopeless crusade you have to balance this against situations where the union has improved pay and/or conditions for its members more than the employees acting individually would.Scargill wanted to bring down a government and didn’t care what happened the members. However in trying to do so having completely underestimated the planning done to mitigate he ultimately killed off an industry.
The ‘84 strikes had to happen before the supply volume deal with CEGB expired in ‘85.
b0rk said:
Mr Penguin said:
Which shows how nasty the unions were, even to their own.
That is how collective solidarity and collectivism works with union membership it’s the bond between you and union. You accept a slight loss of individually in return for the collect might of the union. You just don’t get collectivism vs individuality do you?
There are problems of course where the leadership manage to convince the members to go down a blind alleyway. Much of the UK industrial base destruction can be traced back to unions overplaying their hands.
b0rk said:
That is how collective solidarity and collectivism works with union membership it’s the bond between you and union. You accept a slight loss of individually in return for the collect might of the union.
You just don’t get collectivism vs individuality do you?
There are problems of course where the leadership manage to convince the members to go down a blind alleyway. Much of the UK industrial base destruction can be traced back to unions overplaying their hands.
What Scargill did to the members he represented was wrong and he was like many union “barrons” only after his own self interest. But for every st union on a hopeless crusade you have to balance this against situations where the union has improved pay and/or conditions for its members more than the employees acting individually would.
Scargill wanted to bring down a government and didn’t care what happened the members. However in trying to do so having completely underestimated the planning done to mitigate he ultimately killed off an industry.
The ‘84 strikes had to happen before the supply volume deal with CEGB expired in ‘85.
Good summary, thank you.You just don’t get collectivism vs individuality do you?
There are problems of course where the leadership manage to convince the members to go down a blind alleyway. Much of the UK industrial base destruction can be traced back to unions overplaying their hands.
What Scargill did to the members he represented was wrong and he was like many union “barrons” only after his own self interest. But for every s
t union on a hopeless crusade you have to balance this against situations where the union has improved pay and/or conditions for its members more than the employees acting individually would.Scargill wanted to bring down a government and didn’t care what happened the members. However in trying to do so having completely underestimated the planning done to mitigate he ultimately killed off an industry.
The ‘84 strikes had to happen before the supply volume deal with CEGB expired in ‘85.
.
Too young to remember the strikes. Documentary did well to try and show both sides and how they were trying to out manouvre each other and the extremes both sides were willing to go to. Be hard to imagine anything remotely close to that happening now. Total lack of solidarity now to fight for a belief like those miners did.
hidetheelephants said:
Jordie Barretts sock said:
It's interesting (and off topic, I know) but Thatcher likening the economy to a household budget did make everyone aware of their spending. And why the Govt couldn't just spend money.
Something that disappeared rather quickly when Blair and Brown arrived. Everyone was suddenly 'worth it' and 'entitled' and that's never gone away.
It was nonsense then and now; national finances don't remotely resemble household finances, not least because households cannot print their own money.Something that disappeared rather quickly when Blair and Brown arrived. Everyone was suddenly 'worth it' and 'entitled' and that's never gone away.
I was reading the Wiki article of someone who was involved in politics in the 1980s and stumbled on this quote, which certainly has some truth to it although I think union-government relations had long since gone past the point where a real compromise was possible and it would all have happened later anyway due to environmental concerns.
That's right - it was Norman Tebbit
MysteryMan said:
Those mining communities had good working class values and a sense of family values. The men did real men's heavy work going down the pit. There were also some very close-knit communities which were able to deal with the few troublesome kids. If they had any problems they would take the kid round the back and give them a good clip round the ear and that would be the end of that. Many of these communities were completely devastated, with people out of work turning to drugs and no real man's work because all the jobs had gone. There is no doubt that this led to a breakdown in these communities with families breaking up and youths going out of control. The scale of the closures went too far. The damage done to those communities was enormous as a result of the strike.
Can you guess who it was?That's right - it was Norman Tebbit
Mr Penguin said:
BBC4 also had mining documentaries. One from 1984 talking about why the mines had to be closed and how much they cost to run and some discussion about the strikes in the 70s. Also this which goes into the rich culture (music, art, camaraderie) that existed in the mining communities. Much more than brass bands and sadly forgotten.
That Panorama also shows the striking difference in how current affairs programmes have changed; quite dry and factual, less editorialising than tends to be the case now and the interviews against the blackness(not a background I think, just camera dynamic range showing black).Mr Penguin said:
Pit Pony said:
In percentage terms a very different number though..
Wilson cut an average of 35k per year, Thatcher cut an average of 18k per year. Unless the working age population of the UK more than halved between 1964 and 1979 I don't think that claim will hold.So actually I was wrong.
Although in total 90% of the workforce.
And now 100%
I live in a NE ex mining village, born in '79, son of a blacksmith at the pit, and can trace the family history back to when my family moved here to sink the first shaft. previously the 'village' was a farm and a few houses.
There has been a blacksmith in the family as far back as my dad has managed to get the family tree, approx 1700's. My dad is the last one. So further to previous poster you can see how heritage plays a part.
My dad didn't agree with the strike as saw the writing on the wall, but he didn't go to work either, being a 'scab' destroyed people's lives, and is still brought up regularly now, even on the local Facebook 'have your say'.
He and the sensible ones I've spoke to say the pit closing was a good thing, if the only thing is stopped is their sons going down the mines to work.
The police actions, of rounding up known strike leaders and beating them, to also just giving people a good hiding because they felt like it. There was always a suspicion that the army were brought in to swell the ranks and the met officers wading in on horses waving batons around. Of course there is 2 sides to every story and is quite obvious that the tit for tat just kept escalating on both sides.
To the posts re moving on afterwards, and the subsequent posts confirming that a middle aged miner isn't going to sit down and suddenly be a call centre or similar type. A lot of those that I knew owned their houses also, imagine what would of happened if all these tens of thousands up sticks and moved at the same time, all the pit villages would of been decimated. Who would buy the houses so the people could move on? Where would they have gone? What would of that kind of influx have had on the areas they moved to?
I would say things have picked up in the last 20 years or so, but most jobs are still call centres/retail or related to the local car factory( which says its leaving everywhere week or so it seems).
The area is magnitudes cleaner, beaches are better, my kids don't go and play on the local pit heaps like we did, air is cleaner. My house was a previous NCB house for the manager's so is right next to where the pit was. I've a picture somewhere of a African royal that came to visit for some reason when the west tower was being built and my house is in the background not 50 feet away. When I refurbed it the amount of coal dust and soot was inches deep behind every ceiling, floor, even the houses rising damp issues was because the wall cavity was filled with soot. No wonder chest problems were/are still rife.
We are better off without the pits, even if it's just for the heath reasons. But it'll be a cold day in hell before most of the locals will forgive thatcher and open their eyes to see scargill and his mates played their part too.
There has been a blacksmith in the family as far back as my dad has managed to get the family tree, approx 1700's. My dad is the last one. So further to previous poster you can see how heritage plays a part.
My dad didn't agree with the strike as saw the writing on the wall, but he didn't go to work either, being a 'scab' destroyed people's lives, and is still brought up regularly now, even on the local Facebook 'have your say'.
He and the sensible ones I've spoke to say the pit closing was a good thing, if the only thing is stopped is their sons going down the mines to work.
The police actions, of rounding up known strike leaders and beating them, to also just giving people a good hiding because they felt like it. There was always a suspicion that the army were brought in to swell the ranks and the met officers wading in on horses waving batons around. Of course there is 2 sides to every story and is quite obvious that the tit for tat just kept escalating on both sides.
To the posts re moving on afterwards, and the subsequent posts confirming that a middle aged miner isn't going to sit down and suddenly be a call centre or similar type. A lot of those that I knew owned their houses also, imagine what would of happened if all these tens of thousands up sticks and moved at the same time, all the pit villages would of been decimated. Who would buy the houses so the people could move on? Where would they have gone? What would of that kind of influx have had on the areas they moved to?
I would say things have picked up in the last 20 years or so, but most jobs are still call centres/retail or related to the local car factory( which says its leaving everywhere week or so it seems).
The area is magnitudes cleaner, beaches are better, my kids don't go and play on the local pit heaps like we did, air is cleaner. My house was a previous NCB house for the manager's so is right next to where the pit was. I've a picture somewhere of a African royal that came to visit for some reason when the west tower was being built and my house is in the background not 50 feet away. When I refurbed it the amount of coal dust and soot was inches deep behind every ceiling, floor, even the houses rising damp issues was because the wall cavity was filled with soot. No wonder chest problems were/are still rife.
We are better off without the pits, even if it's just for the heath reasons. But it'll be a cold day in hell before most of the locals will forgive thatcher and open their eyes to see scargill and his mates played their part too.
Edited by nails1979 to add some extra spaces on Thursday 22 February 18:12
on Thursday 22 February 18:12Edited by nails1979 on Thursday 22 February 18:25
nails1979 said:
I live in a NE ex mining village, born in '79, son of a blacksmith at the pit, and can trace the family history back to when my family moved here to sink the first shaft.
There has been a blacksmith in the family as far back as my dad has managed to get the family tree, approx 1700's. My dad is the last one. So further to previous poster you can see how heritage plays a part.
My dad didn't agree with the strike as saw the writing on the wall, but he didn't go to work either, being a 'scab' destroyed people's lives, and is still brought up regularly now, even on the local Facebook 'have your say'.
He and the sensible ones I've spoke to say the pit closing was good thing, if the only thing is stopped is their sons going down the mines to work.
The police actions, of rounding up known strike leaders and beating them, to also just giving people a good hiding because they felt like it. There was always a suspicion that the army were brought in to swell the ranks and the met officers wading in on horses waving batons around. Of course there is 2 sides to every story and is quite obvious that the tit for tat just kept escalating on both sides.
To the posts re moving on afterwards, and the subsequent posts confirming that a middle aged miner isn't going to sit down and suddenly be a call centre or similar type. A lot of those that I knew owned their houses also, imagine what would of happened if all these tens of thousands up sticks and moved at the same time, all the pit villages would of been decimated. Who would buy the houses so the people could move on? Where would they have gone? What would of that kind of influx have had on the areas they moved to?
I would say things have picked up in the last 20 years or so, but most jobs are still call centres/retail or related to the local car factory( which says its leaving everywhere week or so it seems).
The area is magnitudes cleaner, beaches are better, my kids don't go and play on the local pit heaps like we did, air is cleaner. My house was a previous NCB house for the manager's so is right next to where the pit was. I've a picture somewhere of a African royal that came to visit for some reason when the west tower was being built and my house is in the background not 50 feet away. When I refurbed it the amount of coal dust and soot was inches deep behind every ceiling, floor, even the houses rising damp issues was because the wall cavity was filled with soot.
We are better off without the pits, even if it's just for the heath reasons. But it'll be a cold day in hell before most of the locals will forgive thatcher and open their eyes to see scargill and his mates played their part too.
Thanks - a wonderful post.There has been a blacksmith in the family as far back as my dad has managed to get the family tree, approx 1700's. My dad is the last one. So further to previous poster you can see how heritage plays a part.
My dad didn't agree with the strike as saw the writing on the wall, but he didn't go to work either, being a 'scab' destroyed people's lives, and is still brought up regularly now, even on the local Facebook 'have your say'.
He and the sensible ones I've spoke to say the pit closing was good thing, if the only thing is stopped is their sons going down the mines to work.
The police actions, of rounding up known strike leaders and beating them, to also just giving people a good hiding because they felt like it. There was always a suspicion that the army were brought in to swell the ranks and the met officers wading in on horses waving batons around. Of course there is 2 sides to every story and is quite obvious that the tit for tat just kept escalating on both sides.
To the posts re moving on afterwards, and the subsequent posts confirming that a middle aged miner isn't going to sit down and suddenly be a call centre or similar type. A lot of those that I knew owned their houses also, imagine what would of happened if all these tens of thousands up sticks and moved at the same time, all the pit villages would of been decimated. Who would buy the houses so the people could move on? Where would they have gone? What would of that kind of influx have had on the areas they moved to?
I would say things have picked up in the last 20 years or so, but most jobs are still call centres/retail or related to the local car factory( which says its leaving everywhere week or so it seems).
The area is magnitudes cleaner, beaches are better, my kids don't go and play on the local pit heaps like we did, air is cleaner. My house was a previous NCB house for the manager's so is right next to where the pit was. I've a picture somewhere of a African royal that came to visit for some reason when the west tower was being built and my house is in the background not 50 feet away. When I refurbed it the amount of coal dust and soot was inches deep behind every ceiling, floor, even the houses rising damp issues was because the wall cavity was filled with soot.
We are better off without the pits, even if it's just for the heath reasons. But it'll be a cold day in hell before most of the locals will forgive thatcher and open their eyes to see scargill and his mates played their part too.
hidetheelephants said:
That Panorama also shows the striking difference in how current affairs programmes have changed; quite dry and factual, less editorialising than tends to be the case now and the interviews against the blackness(not a background I think, just camera dynamic range showing black).
It helps that they actually let the interviewee speak rather than constantly speak over them.Vasco said:
nails1979 said:
I live in a NE ex mining village, born in '79, son of a blacksmith at the pit, and can trace the family history back to when my family moved here to sink the first shaft.
There has been a blacksmith in the family as far back as my dad has managed to get the family tree, approx 1700's. My dad is the last one. So further to previous poster you can see how heritage plays a part.
My dad didn't agree with the strike as saw the writing on the wall, but he didn't go to work either, being a 'scab' destroyed people's lives, and is still brought up regularly now, even on the local Facebook 'have your say'.
He and the sensible ones I've spoke to say the pit closing was good thing, if the only thing is stopped is their sons going down the mines to work.
The police actions, of rounding up known strike leaders and beating them, to also just giving people a good hiding because they felt like it. There was always a suspicion that the army were brought in to swell the ranks and the met officers wading in on horses waving batons around. Of course there is 2 sides to every story and is quite obvious that the tit for tat just kept escalating on both sides.
To the posts re moving on afterwards, and the subsequent posts confirming that a middle aged miner isn't going to sit down and suddenly be a call centre or similar type. A lot of those that I knew owned their houses also, imagine what would of happened if all these tens of thousands up sticks and moved at the same time, all the pit villages would of been decimated. Who would buy the houses so the people could move on? Where would they have gone? What would of that kind of influx have had on the areas they moved to?
I would say things have picked up in the last 20 years or so, but most jobs are still call centres/retail or related to the local car factory( which says its leaving everywhere week or so it seems).
The area is magnitudes cleaner, beaches are better, my kids don't go and play on the local pit heaps like we did, air is cleaner. My house was a previous NCB house for the manager's so is right next to where the pit was. I've a picture somewhere of a African royal that came to visit for some reason when the west tower was being built and my house is in the background not 50 feet away. When I refurbed it the amount of coal dust and soot was inches deep behind every ceiling, floor, even the houses rising damp issues was because the wall cavity was filled with soot.
We are better off without the pits, even if it's just for the heath reasons. But it'll be a cold day in hell before most of the locals will forgive thatcher and open their eyes to see scargill and his mates played their part too.
Thanks - a wonderful post.There has been a blacksmith in the family as far back as my dad has managed to get the family tree, approx 1700's. My dad is the last one. So further to previous poster you can see how heritage plays a part.
My dad didn't agree with the strike as saw the writing on the wall, but he didn't go to work either, being a 'scab' destroyed people's lives, and is still brought up regularly now, even on the local Facebook 'have your say'.
He and the sensible ones I've spoke to say the pit closing was good thing, if the only thing is stopped is their sons going down the mines to work.
The police actions, of rounding up known strike leaders and beating them, to also just giving people a good hiding because they felt like it. There was always a suspicion that the army were brought in to swell the ranks and the met officers wading in on horses waving batons around. Of course there is 2 sides to every story and is quite obvious that the tit for tat just kept escalating on both sides.
To the posts re moving on afterwards, and the subsequent posts confirming that a middle aged miner isn't going to sit down and suddenly be a call centre or similar type. A lot of those that I knew owned their houses also, imagine what would of happened if all these tens of thousands up sticks and moved at the same time, all the pit villages would of been decimated. Who would buy the houses so the people could move on? Where would they have gone? What would of that kind of influx have had on the areas they moved to?
I would say things have picked up in the last 20 years or so, but most jobs are still call centres/retail or related to the local car factory( which says its leaving everywhere week or so it seems).
The area is magnitudes cleaner, beaches are better, my kids don't go and play on the local pit heaps like we did, air is cleaner. My house was a previous NCB house for the manager's so is right next to where the pit was. I've a picture somewhere of a African royal that came to visit for some reason when the west tower was being built and my house is in the background not 50 feet away. When I refurbed it the amount of coal dust and soot was inches deep behind every ceiling, floor, even the houses rising damp issues was because the wall cavity was filled with soot.
We are better off without the pits, even if it's just for the heath reasons. But it'll be a cold day in hell before most of the locals will forgive thatcher and open their eyes to see scargill and his mates played their part too.
Very difficult to read.
Alickadoo said:
Vasco said:
nails1979 said:
I live in a NE ex mining village, born in '79, son of a blacksmith at the pit, and can trace the family history back to when my family moved here to sink the first shaft.
There has been a blacksmith in the family as far back as my dad has managed to get the family tree, approx 1700's. My dad is the last one. So further to previous poster you can see how heritage plays a part.
My dad didn't agree with the strike as saw the writing on the wall, but he didn't go to work either, being a 'scab' destroyed people's lives, and is still brought up regularly now, even on the local Facebook 'have your say'.
He and the sensible ones I've spoke to say the pit closing was good thing, if the only thing is stopped is their sons going down the mines to work.
The police actions, of rounding up known strike leaders and beating them, to also just giving people a good hiding because they felt like it. There was always a suspicion that the army were brought in to swell the ranks and the met officers wading in on horses waving batons around. Of course there is 2 sides to every story and is quite obvious that the tit for tat just kept escalating on both sides.
To the posts re moving on afterwards, and the subsequent posts confirming that a middle aged miner isn't going to sit down and suddenly be a call centre or similar type. A lot of those that I knew owned their houses also, imagine what would of happened if all these tens of thousands up sticks and moved at the same time, all the pit villages would of been decimated. Who would buy the houses so the people could move on? Where would they have gone? What would of that kind of influx have had on the areas they moved to?
I would say things have picked up in the last 20 years or so, but most jobs are still call centres/retail or related to the local car factory( which says its leaving everywhere week or so it seems).
The area is magnitudes cleaner, beaches are better, my kids don't go and play on the local pit heaps like we did, air is cleaner. My house was a previous NCB house for the manager's so is right next to where the pit was. I've a picture somewhere of a African royal that came to visit for some reason when the west tower was being built and my house is in the background not 50 feet away. When I refurbed it the amount of coal dust and soot was inches deep behind every ceiling, floor, even the houses rising damp issues was because the wall cavity was filled with soot.
We are better off without the pits, even if it's just for the heath reasons. But it'll be a cold day in hell before most of the locals will forgive thatcher and open their eyes to see scargill and his mates played their part too.
Thanks - a wonderful post.There has been a blacksmith in the family as far back as my dad has managed to get the family tree, approx 1700's. My dad is the last one. So further to previous poster you can see how heritage plays a part.
My dad didn't agree with the strike as saw the writing on the wall, but he didn't go to work either, being a 'scab' destroyed people's lives, and is still brought up regularly now, even on the local Facebook 'have your say'.
He and the sensible ones I've spoke to say the pit closing was good thing, if the only thing is stopped is their sons going down the mines to work.
The police actions, of rounding up known strike leaders and beating them, to also just giving people a good hiding because they felt like it. There was always a suspicion that the army were brought in to swell the ranks and the met officers wading in on horses waving batons around. Of course there is 2 sides to every story and is quite obvious that the tit for tat just kept escalating on both sides.
To the posts re moving on afterwards, and the subsequent posts confirming that a middle aged miner isn't going to sit down and suddenly be a call centre or similar type. A lot of those that I knew owned their houses also, imagine what would of happened if all these tens of thousands up sticks and moved at the same time, all the pit villages would of been decimated. Who would buy the houses so the people could move on? Where would they have gone? What would of that kind of influx have had on the areas they moved to?
I would say things have picked up in the last 20 years or so, but most jobs are still call centres/retail or related to the local car factory( which says its leaving everywhere week or so it seems).
The area is magnitudes cleaner, beaches are better, my kids don't go and play on the local pit heaps like we did, air is cleaner. My house was a previous NCB house for the manager's so is right next to where the pit was. I've a picture somewhere of a African royal that came to visit for some reason when the west tower was being built and my house is in the background not 50 feet away. When I refurbed it the amount of coal dust and soot was inches deep behind every ceiling, floor, even the houses rising damp issues was because the wall cavity was filled with soot.
We are better off without the pits, even if it's just for the heath reasons. But it'll be a cold day in hell before most of the locals will forgive thatcher and open their eyes to see scargill and his mates played their part too.
Very difficult to read.
Alickadoo said:
Vasco said:
nails1979 said:
I live in a NE ex mining village, born in '79, son of a blacksmith at the pit, and can trace the family history back to when my family moved here to sink the first shaft.
There has been a blacksmith in the family as far back as my dad has managed to get the family tree, approx 1700's. My dad is the last one. So further to previous poster you can see how heritage plays a part.
My dad didn't agree with the strike as saw the writing on the wall, but he didn't go to work either, being a 'scab' destroyed people's lives, and is still brought up regularly now, even on the local Facebook 'have your say'.
He and the sensible ones I've spoke to say the pit closing was good thing, if the only thing is stopped is their sons going down the mines to work.
The police actions, of rounding up known strike leaders and beating them, to also just giving people a good hiding because they felt like it. There was always a suspicion that the army were brought in to swell the ranks and the met officers wading in on horses waving batons around. Of course there is 2 sides to every story and is quite obvious that the tit for tat just kept escalating on both sides.
To the posts re moving on afterwards, and the subsequent posts confirming that a middle aged miner isn't going to sit down and suddenly be a call centre or similar type. A lot of those that I knew owned their houses also, imagine what would of happened if all these tens of thousands up sticks and moved at the same time, all the pit villages would of been decimated. Who would buy the houses so the people could move on? Where would they have gone? What would of that kind of influx have had on the areas they moved to?
I would say things have picked up in the last 20 years or so, but most jobs are still call centres/retail or related to the local car factory( which says its leaving everywhere week or so it seems).
The area is magnitudes cleaner, beaches are better, my kids don't go and play on the local pit heaps like we did, air is cleaner. My house was a previous NCB house for the manager's so is right next to where the pit was. I've a picture somewhere of a African royal that came to visit for some reason when the west tower was being built and my house is in the background not 50 feet away. When I refurbed it the amount of coal dust and soot was inches deep behind every ceiling, floor, even the houses rising damp issues was because the wall cavity was filled with soot.
We are better off without the pits, even if it's just for the heath reasons. But it'll be a cold day in hell before most of the locals will forgive thatcher and open their eyes to see scargill and his mates played their part too.
Thanks - a wonderful post.There has been a blacksmith in the family as far back as my dad has managed to get the family tree, approx 1700's. My dad is the last one. So further to previous poster you can see how heritage plays a part.
My dad didn't agree with the strike as saw the writing on the wall, but he didn't go to work either, being a 'scab' destroyed people's lives, and is still brought up regularly now, even on the local Facebook 'have your say'.
He and the sensible ones I've spoke to say the pit closing was good thing, if the only thing is stopped is their sons going down the mines to work.
The police actions, of rounding up known strike leaders and beating them, to also just giving people a good hiding because they felt like it. There was always a suspicion that the army were brought in to swell the ranks and the met officers wading in on horses waving batons around. Of course there is 2 sides to every story and is quite obvious that the tit for tat just kept escalating on both sides.
To the posts re moving on afterwards, and the subsequent posts confirming that a middle aged miner isn't going to sit down and suddenly be a call centre or similar type. A lot of those that I knew owned their houses also, imagine what would of happened if all these tens of thousands up sticks and moved at the same time, all the pit villages would of been decimated. Who would buy the houses so the people could move on? Where would they have gone? What would of that kind of influx have had on the areas they moved to?
I would say things have picked up in the last 20 years or so, but most jobs are still call centres/retail or related to the local car factory( which says its leaving everywhere week or so it seems).
The area is magnitudes cleaner, beaches are better, my kids don't go and play on the local pit heaps like we did, air is cleaner. My house was a previous NCB house for the manager's so is right next to where the pit was. I've a picture somewhere of a African royal that came to visit for some reason when the west tower was being built and my house is in the background not 50 feet away. When I refurbed it the amount of coal dust and soot was inches deep behind every ceiling, floor, even the houses rising damp issues was because the wall cavity was filled with soot.
We are better off without the pits, even if it's just for the heath reasons. But it'll be a cold day in hell before most of the locals will forgive thatcher and open their eyes to see scargill and his mates played their part too.
Very difficult to read.
Enough paragraphs etc when I read it. Are you reading it on something 'odd' ?
My house is just out of picture on the right.
We did have access to a Olympic sized outdoor heated swimming pool which was great growing up. The slag heaps is off picture to the bottom left and is now a retail park, the pit and the transport yard (previously was a brick factory) are now either housing estates, fields and a reasonably sized wooded area
We did have access to a Olympic sized outdoor heated swimming pool which was great growing up. The slag heaps is off picture to the bottom left and is now a retail park, the pit and the transport yard (previously was a brick factory) are now either housing estates, fields and a reasonably sized wooded area
Edited by nails1979 on Thursday 22 February 18:24
Back on the subject of people who weren't familiar with the social situation around the societies which made up the pit villages probably don't appreciate some of the detail circumstances. Here's just one factor, the housing.
The miners and their families lived in houses that they often rented from the NCB. 1980 the right to buy came in, and being very well paid they took out mortgages and were proud toown their own houses that they and their parents had occupied.
Strike and as recounted above people were threatened with repossession of the homes that they had been incentenivised to buy. Plus if they wanted to sell up and move out who wanted to buy those houses. Notwithstanding the above the houses in many cases were of non traditional construction, sometimes pre fab concrete slab Airey design, sometimes cast in situ concrete. Mrs F brought up in a pit house estate still known locally as concrete canyon. For a long time it was almost impossible to obtain a mortgage on these. So no sales, and therefore no moves, no getting on Tebbit's bike. Though those who could get jobs nearby did so. However remember unemployment and redundancies in other industries eg steel.
Back on housing there's even been a PH thread on the difficulty with this construction as an aside.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
List purporting to be non standard houses around the country.
https://nonstandardhouse.com/local-authority-non-t...
Health warning, I know that list is not complete, a check on Mrs F's childhood family home which is ex NBC poured concrete construction show it's not listed, nor any on that street.
One possibly unrelated comment I will add is that looking at the Facebook page for that area shows a much better sense of community even now than is evident in many other nominally 'better' areas.
The miners and their families lived in houses that they often rented from the NCB. 1980 the right to buy came in, and being very well paid they took out mortgages and were proud toown their own houses that they and their parents had occupied.
Strike and as recounted above people were threatened with repossession of the homes that they had been incentenivised to buy. Plus if they wanted to sell up and move out who wanted to buy those houses. Notwithstanding the above the houses in many cases were of non traditional construction, sometimes pre fab concrete slab Airey design, sometimes cast in situ concrete. Mrs F brought up in a pit house estate still known locally as concrete canyon. For a long time it was almost impossible to obtain a mortgage on these. So no sales, and therefore no moves, no getting on Tebbit's bike. Though those who could get jobs nearby did so. However remember unemployment and redundancies in other industries eg steel.
Back on housing there's even been a PH thread on the difficulty with this construction as an aside.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
List purporting to be non standard houses around the country.
https://nonstandardhouse.com/local-authority-non-t...
Health warning, I know that list is not complete, a check on Mrs F's childhood family home which is ex NBC poured concrete construction show it's not listed, nor any on that street.
One possibly unrelated comment I will add is that looking at the Facebook page for that area shows a much better sense of community even now than is evident in many other nominally 'better' areas.
A few photos of Orgreave taken today. From watching the recent series on the miners strike you should recognise some places.
The scene is much changed from 1984 but the main road is still there, now called Highfield Lane, albeit the railway bridge that the police charged the miners across is no longer used, instead a new road and bridge has been built alongside to serve the area, and runs alongside the old bridge. The area is now called Waverley.
On this old map you can see the bridge on the road bend going over the railway line..
Todays satellite view shows the new road & bridge running alongside the old bridge on the left, smoothing the bend in the road..
This is quite an iconic photo of the police line with the plant behind them, note the circular gas towers which also appear on the old map above, photo taken with the bridge behind the photographer..
Todays view looks like this..
If the photographer taking that photo of the police line was to do an about turn you'd be looking at the old bridge taking the road over the railway, note the large coping stones on the bridge walls that will appear later..
And with todays view you can see the start of the old bridge that is now fenced off and overgrown with vegetation, and the new road running alongside...
As we walk up the new road and over the new bridge, the old bridge is on our right and still visible if you peer through the railings of the new bridge...
And here we are looking back at the other end of the fenced off old bridge
You can deviate off the new road and walk down through the bushes and overgrowth and go up to the fenced off old bridge...
Let's go back down the road and walk through the police line on the earlier black & white photo and over the new roundabout that is now there. If we walk on a little further before turning back around so the old bridge is in the very far distance, then I'm guessing we'd be looking at where the initial police line stood with their shields, having bricks thrown at them by the miners. This would also be where the mounted police broke through the police line to charge at the miners, followed by riot cops on foot and snatch squads and their batons..
Todays view???
Now let's walk back up the road, back over the new roundabout and back through that police line we saw in the earlier black & white photo, over the new bridge (with the old bridge to our right). in this image the police have gone over the bridge and we can see the roofs of two houses in the distance, one being a bungalow..
Here is that bungalow today. As the miners were chased along the road some disappeared down the passageways between the houses on the right to hide, but were coaxed out by the mounted police who then 'greeted' them.
As the miners were chased along the road by the police, on their left was the infamous 'Rock on Tommy' Ice cream van that appeared on the TV documentaries. Some miners tried to hide behind it and some were busy buying ice creams..
Todays view...
Just beyond that ice cream van is the crossroads with Highfield Lane and Orgreave Lane, and I think this is as far as the miners were chased, before the police turned back, went back over the bridge and returned to the plant.
This image is from the grass verge next to the ice cream van and is looking at the crossroads and up Orgreave Lane
Todays view..
.
The scene is much changed from 1984 but the main road is still there, now called Highfield Lane, albeit the railway bridge that the police charged the miners across is no longer used, instead a new road and bridge has been built alongside to serve the area, and runs alongside the old bridge. The area is now called Waverley.
On this old map you can see the bridge on the road bend going over the railway line..
Todays satellite view shows the new road & bridge running alongside the old bridge on the left, smoothing the bend in the road..
This is quite an iconic photo of the police line with the plant behind them, note the circular gas towers which also appear on the old map above, photo taken with the bridge behind the photographer..
Todays view looks like this..
If the photographer taking that photo of the police line was to do an about turn you'd be looking at the old bridge taking the road over the railway, note the large coping stones on the bridge walls that will appear later..
And with todays view you can see the start of the old bridge that is now fenced off and overgrown with vegetation, and the new road running alongside...
As we walk up the new road and over the new bridge, the old bridge is on our right and still visible if you peer through the railings of the new bridge...
And here we are looking back at the other end of the fenced off old bridge
You can deviate off the new road and walk down through the bushes and overgrowth and go up to the fenced off old bridge...
Let's go back down the road and walk through the police line on the earlier black & white photo and over the new roundabout that is now there. If we walk on a little further before turning back around so the old bridge is in the very far distance, then I'm guessing we'd be looking at where the initial police line stood with their shields, having bricks thrown at them by the miners. This would also be where the mounted police broke through the police line to charge at the miners, followed by riot cops on foot and snatch squads and their batons..
Todays view???
Now let's walk back up the road, back over the new roundabout and back through that police line we saw in the earlier black & white photo, over the new bridge (with the old bridge to our right). in this image the police have gone over the bridge and we can see the roofs of two houses in the distance, one being a bungalow..
Here is that bungalow today. As the miners were chased along the road some disappeared down the passageways between the houses on the right to hide, but were coaxed out by the mounted police who then 'greeted' them.
As the miners were chased along the road by the police, on their left was the infamous 'Rock on Tommy' Ice cream van that appeared on the TV documentaries. Some miners tried to hide behind it and some were busy buying ice creams..
Todays view...
Just beyond that ice cream van is the crossroads with Highfield Lane and Orgreave Lane, and I think this is as far as the miners were chased, before the police turned back, went back over the bridge and returned to the plant.
This image is from the grass verge next to the ice cream van and is looking at the crossroads and up Orgreave Lane
Todays view..
.
Edited by The Gauge on Friday 23 February 16:52
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