James Webb space telescope getting axed?
Discussion
Andy Zarse said:
No I'm not, I simply cannot see how the US can afford thus sort of thing at the moment. The point is they haven't got any money left, QE3 or not.
Except that they've already spent well over a billion on it and it's due in space in the next few years (probably), bit of a dumbass idea to can it now. Sometimes you've got to think a little longer term. 
said:
You don't have to look to the stars to see how America's space program has touched your daily life. Look at your cell phone, your tennis shoes, your tool belt, your computer or television.
Daniel Lockney, editor of Spinoff, a NASA publication since 1976, makes it his job to inform readers of the benefits of space technology, from medicine to industry to entertainment.
"When NASA was founded in 1958," Mr. Lockney said, "Congress said, 'You can have this money for space exploration, but the money that goes up in space has to come back down in some practical and tangible forms. And we'd like to know what they are.'
"One of the goals of space exploration is to discover these new inventions and new technologies."
He also spends much of his time policing information, dispelling myths ranging from scissors and smoke detectors to Velcro and Tang, the preferred orange soft drink of man's early space missions.
"People were drinking Tang before we went into space," he said.
But much of what has been technologically achieved since the start of the space program -- such as computers and the miniaturization of electronics -- can be credited, at least partially, to that reach for the moon.
"The first integrated circuit -- the forefather of the modern microchip -- was built by Texas Instruments but funded by the Apollo program and the Air Force's Minuteman Missile Project," Mr. Lockney said. "They developed it, but the customer was NASA.
"A lot of the work is contracted out. NASA retains the usage rights, and the company retains the intellectual property rights and [is] able to create a commercial item. That's for the greater good of the economy. Everybody benefits."
The Dustbuster is a prime example, he said. Other things, such as the small, lightweight, rechargeable, battery-operated power tools so common today? Maybe not so much.
"Black and Decker had offered [the public] a cordless drill two years before NASA," Mr. Lockney said. "But NASA did work with Black and Decker, and the collaboration did lead to a stronger, longer-lasting battery."
How about those thermometers that are inserted in your ear nowadays and take your temperature in seconds? The technology was initiated by scientists who wanted to measure radiation from stars and planets. And doesn't the bottom of your tongue appreciate it.
How about the padding in the helmets worn by your favorite six-time Super Bowl champion football team? Well, that's memory foam, a visco-elastic, temperature-sensitive material that adjusts to the body weight and temperature of the user for complete comfort and support. First designed for airline seats and flight helmets, you may better know it commercially as the stuff in Tempur-Pedic mattresses.
Speaking of football, have you been watching ESPN's "SportsCenter" lately? You see those panoramic views it has of plays from all angles? That is based on robotic gigapan camera technology software used to create images of the Mars landscape from digital photos taken by space probes.
"That's really cool, and it's out of Carnegie Mellon University," Mr. Lockney said. "The robotic arms of the Mars rovers, and the software that stitches all these digital images together. These are now the 360-degree panoramic features used on Web sites for new cars, real estate and hotels, where you can take a virtual tour."
You probably know about "the space-age technology" used to develop scratch-proof lenses, composite golf clubs, high-density batteries, blue-blocking ultraviolet sunglasses, the computer mouse and freeze-dried food.
But how about infant formula?
"In the 1980s, [researchers were] working to use algae to clean water and recycle air and perhaps use as a food source during long-duration space flights," Mr. Lockney said. "During the experiments, they discovered a unique nutrient that previously had been found only in breast milk. Today, that nutrient is marketed in 95 percent of all baby formula sold in the U.S. and countries around the world."
Why, space research is part of the fabric of society, including the design and material for certain types of sports wear, ranging from the sports bras to temperature-control clothing to the swimsuits worn by every gold-medal winner in the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
And the white peaks in the roof of the David L. Lawrence Convention Center? "That is NASA's spacesuit material," Mr. Lockney said. "It's stronger than steel, pound-for-pound, but lighter. It's beautiful, and it allows light in, so it saves electricity. And it's more durable than a standard roof."
Mr. Lockney said NASA is constantly collaborating with private companies to share its resources. For example, the space agency builds a wind tunnel, but then allows NASCAR to use it for testing, or loans a zero-gravity aircraft to filmmakers.
There are lightweight, portable water filters based on NASA developments that are deployed to disaster areas and remote regions of the world where water is scarce. The "Jaws of Life" device that saves people from twisted metal wreckage. Grooves in highways that drain away water were first designed for rain-slicked runways. The self-righting raft was conceived for the astronauts who climbed from their capsules upon their return to Earth.
The morning after a 1997 gala exhibition at The Andy Warhol Museum on the North Side, it was noticed that one of the guests had planted a full-lipped smooch on Warhol's classic painting "Bathtub" -- a big red-lipsticked smack that forced the museum to withdraw the painting from the exhibition.
Curators, fearing the artwork was ruined, turned to NASA scientists at Glenn Research Center in Cleveland, led by researcher Bruce A. Banks.
"There's corrosive gas that eats away at satellites and spacecraft in low orbit. It's called 'atomic oxygen,' and it eats organic materials," Mr. Lockney said. "Glenn Research Center [scientists] built a device that duplicates atomic oxygen here on Earth.
"Well, they realized that [atomic oxygen] could be used for removing soot and other carbon-based materials from artwork that had been damaged in a local church fire."
And it wiped the Warhol's work clean of its kiss.
"For NASA to take credit for it all is not entirely accurate," Mr. Lockney said. "But to say that it's all part of a larger space economy is quite accurate."
Yeah, fDaniel Lockney, editor of Spinoff, a NASA publication since 1976, makes it his job to inform readers of the benefits of space technology, from medicine to industry to entertainment.
"When NASA was founded in 1958," Mr. Lockney said, "Congress said, 'You can have this money for space exploration, but the money that goes up in space has to come back down in some practical and tangible forms. And we'd like to know what they are.'
"One of the goals of space exploration is to discover these new inventions and new technologies."
He also spends much of his time policing information, dispelling myths ranging from scissors and smoke detectors to Velcro and Tang, the preferred orange soft drink of man's early space missions.
"People were drinking Tang before we went into space," he said.
But much of what has been technologically achieved since the start of the space program -- such as computers and the miniaturization of electronics -- can be credited, at least partially, to that reach for the moon.
"The first integrated circuit -- the forefather of the modern microchip -- was built by Texas Instruments but funded by the Apollo program and the Air Force's Minuteman Missile Project," Mr. Lockney said. "They developed it, but the customer was NASA.
"A lot of the work is contracted out. NASA retains the usage rights, and the company retains the intellectual property rights and [is] able to create a commercial item. That's for the greater good of the economy. Everybody benefits."
The Dustbuster is a prime example, he said. Other things, such as the small, lightweight, rechargeable, battery-operated power tools so common today? Maybe not so much.
"Black and Decker had offered [the public] a cordless drill two years before NASA," Mr. Lockney said. "But NASA did work with Black and Decker, and the collaboration did lead to a stronger, longer-lasting battery."
How about those thermometers that are inserted in your ear nowadays and take your temperature in seconds? The technology was initiated by scientists who wanted to measure radiation from stars and planets. And doesn't the bottom of your tongue appreciate it.
How about the padding in the helmets worn by your favorite six-time Super Bowl champion football team? Well, that's memory foam, a visco-elastic, temperature-sensitive material that adjusts to the body weight and temperature of the user for complete comfort and support. First designed for airline seats and flight helmets, you may better know it commercially as the stuff in Tempur-Pedic mattresses.
Speaking of football, have you been watching ESPN's "SportsCenter" lately? You see those panoramic views it has of plays from all angles? That is based on robotic gigapan camera technology software used to create images of the Mars landscape from digital photos taken by space probes.
"That's really cool, and it's out of Carnegie Mellon University," Mr. Lockney said. "The robotic arms of the Mars rovers, and the software that stitches all these digital images together. These are now the 360-degree panoramic features used on Web sites for new cars, real estate and hotels, where you can take a virtual tour."
You probably know about "the space-age technology" used to develop scratch-proof lenses, composite golf clubs, high-density batteries, blue-blocking ultraviolet sunglasses, the computer mouse and freeze-dried food.
But how about infant formula?
"In the 1980s, [researchers were] working to use algae to clean water and recycle air and perhaps use as a food source during long-duration space flights," Mr. Lockney said. "During the experiments, they discovered a unique nutrient that previously had been found only in breast milk. Today, that nutrient is marketed in 95 percent of all baby formula sold in the U.S. and countries around the world."
Why, space research is part of the fabric of society, including the design and material for certain types of sports wear, ranging from the sports bras to temperature-control clothing to the swimsuits worn by every gold-medal winner in the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
And the white peaks in the roof of the David L. Lawrence Convention Center? "That is NASA's spacesuit material," Mr. Lockney said. "It's stronger than steel, pound-for-pound, but lighter. It's beautiful, and it allows light in, so it saves electricity. And it's more durable than a standard roof."
Mr. Lockney said NASA is constantly collaborating with private companies to share its resources. For example, the space agency builds a wind tunnel, but then allows NASCAR to use it for testing, or loans a zero-gravity aircraft to filmmakers.
There are lightweight, portable water filters based on NASA developments that are deployed to disaster areas and remote regions of the world where water is scarce. The "Jaws of Life" device that saves people from twisted metal wreckage. Grooves in highways that drain away water were first designed for rain-slicked runways. The self-righting raft was conceived for the astronauts who climbed from their capsules upon their return to Earth.
The morning after a 1997 gala exhibition at The Andy Warhol Museum on the North Side, it was noticed that one of the guests had planted a full-lipped smooch on Warhol's classic painting "Bathtub" -- a big red-lipsticked smack that forced the museum to withdraw the painting from the exhibition.
Curators, fearing the artwork was ruined, turned to NASA scientists at Glenn Research Center in Cleveland, led by researcher Bruce A. Banks.
"There's corrosive gas that eats away at satellites and spacecraft in low orbit. It's called 'atomic oxygen,' and it eats organic materials," Mr. Lockney said. "Glenn Research Center [scientists] built a device that duplicates atomic oxygen here on Earth.
"Well, they realized that [atomic oxygen] could be used for removing soot and other carbon-based materials from artwork that had been damaged in a local church fire."
And it wiped the Warhol's work clean of its kiss.
"For NASA to take credit for it all is not entirely accurate," Mr. Lockney said. "But to say that it's all part of a larger space economy is quite accurate."
k it, useless bds. And beyond the obvious economic benefits outlined, space is REALLY fking big and there's a lot of st out there, wouldn't you actually like to know just a little bit more about it? Wouldn't you like to expand your knowledge of the universe we live in and potentially where we come from?
king big and there's a lot of st out there, wouldn't you actually like to know just a little bit more about it? Wouldn't you like to expand your knowledge of the universe we live in and potentially where we come from? 
Andy Zarse said:
Very interesting article, though a little otiose to the question. I want to know what immediate benefits this telescope will give us and why the project can't be mothballed?
Did you even read the article? It's impossible to say. Do you think the NASA scientists thought 'Oh, this memory foam will help out footballers!' when they invented the stuff? No. The technology trickled down.
Maybe the battery technology used on this telescope could be used to power your mobile phone a bit longer. Maybe the metal alloys invented could keep a car engine cooler. Maybe the precision low powered joints used to align the solar panels with the sun could be used in medicine for a heart operation you could need in the future.
Who knows, and frankly all that stuff is an encore to the main show which is the scientific research that will be carried out by the telescope its self.
Basically your argument is 'What did the romans ever do for us?'..
for all we know this telescope could reveal the universe to be teeming with life. Who knows!
ETA: Here's another new one;
ETA: Here's another new one;
web said:
"NASA's Atlantis shuttle is set to launch this Friday, and its crew will be testing an innovative device that can recycle human urine into a sugary sports drink. The bag uses forward osmosis technology and features a semi-permeable membrane capable of isolating water from virtually any liquid. Recycling urine in this way has a significant effect on a ship's payload, and considering that a single pound adds $10,000 of cost, that slight weight difference can translate to serious savings."
Edited by Oakey on Thursday 7th July 22:49
Eric Mc said:
Mr Arse only thinks that investing in a new technology is viable when you know in advance the benefits that will ac crue from that technology.
If the human race had adhered to that principle, we would still be largely rolling boulders.
So Caveman Eric...ug...why we...err.... bash rocks together... ug?..If the human race had adhered to that principle, we would still be largely rolling boulders.
Nonsense. For every item of technology you cite, there are thousands that have been developed without recourse to space programs. All those things would arguably have been invented by commercial means in any event.
Nobody has yet ventured any proper answer as to how this telescope will benefit mankind in light of the financial deficit facing the US treasury. If they were awash with cash then maybe, it might be an interesting experiment. You don't swm to understand the desperate financial plight facing the US, unless the debt ceiling is raised public employees wont get paid. It's that bad. And you think they can afford tonwaste money on a bit more star gazing? I despair.
Ps Interesting item on newsnight about private enterprise and space. Puts it in a bit of perspective.
Nobody has yet ventured any proper answer as to how this telescope will benefit mankind in light of the financial deficit facing the US treasury. If they were awash with cash then maybe, it might be an interesting experiment. You don't swm to understand the desperate financial plight facing the US, unless the debt ceiling is raised public employees wont get paid. It's that bad. And you think they can afford tonwaste money on a bit more star gazing? I despair.
Ps Interesting item on newsnight about private enterprise and space. Puts it in a bit of perspective.
As someone with an interest in astronomy (not astrology - FFS) this does sadden me, however thanks to digital technology and interference optics, the issues that had previously hampered atmospheric telescopes are largely being solved, so maybe we can live without another space telescope.
If it was as bad as you say it is then they sure as hell wouldn't be wasting all that money in Afghanistan.
They come home 2 weeks earlier from Afghanistan and BAM. Telescope paid for.
I'd rather have the telescope than the occupation of some sthole country that very few people actually care about.
They come home 2 weeks earlier from Afghanistan and BAM. Telescope paid for.
I'd rather have the telescope than the occupation of some s
thole country that very few people actually care about. Well, considering the amount of demand for Hubble I'm pretty sure they could allow access to this thing for an astronomical 
price negating most of its costs. Saying space programs are useless is similar (tiny scale compared though) to the people who say F1 is useless ignoring all the benefits we get from people pushing boundaries of what is possible.
Anyone think this could be a religious thing? Last thing they want is Americas own flagship company saying 'this is exactly how/when/where the universe started' for many reasons. Could also be a case of 'what could we cut where there will be public outrage or someone else will just give us the money anyway'. They're my cynical thoughts for the day.
price negating most of its costs. Saying space programs are useless is similar (tiny scale compared though) to the people who say F1 is useless ignoring all the benefits we get from people pushing boundaries of what is possible. Anyone think this could be a religious thing? Last thing they want is Americas own flagship company saying 'this is exactly how/when/where the universe started' for many reasons. Could also be a case of 'what could we cut where there will be public outrage or someone else will just give us the money anyway'. They're my cynical thoughts for the day.
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