North Korea - how serious should we take them?

[scherzkeks]

stourjohn said:

Their leader is an insignificant little man leading an insignificant little country who only wants recognition. Why, therefore don't we just stop reporting anything and halt his publicity.

The provocations are coming from both sides. And without war, I am not sure the US has an economy.

[Cobnapint]

scherzkeks said:

The provocations are coming from both sides. And without war, I am not sure the US has an economy.

Not true. The Norks have been provoking the South, the US, the UN and Japan for fking decades.

The only 'provoking' (if it can be called that) by anybody else is the annual 'don't even think about it' exercises the US does with SK. Apart from that, everybody else just kept hoping NK would see the light, grow up and stop playing the victim card.

The recent statements out of the US are a statement of fact, ie, the present situation of NK making continual threats to turn all it's 'enemies' into balls of fire etc etc, cannot be allowed to continue, especially as Fatty is fast approaching the day when he'll be able to actually do it.

The UN has failed, China has failed, so somebody has to act. The US statements aren't provocation, they are logical steps of the situation at hand.

[skyrover]

People seem to think that ignoring NK will make it go away.

Unfortunately the North Korean foreign policy revolves around extortion... the more you ignore, the harder they provoke.

[scherzkeks]

Cobnapint said:

The UN has failed, China has failed, so somebody has to act. The US statements aren't provocation, they are logical steps of the situation at hand.

They are provocation to feed the war machine. No doubt a unilateral first strike in violation of international law is on the table again.

[WCZ]

FourWheelDrift said:

No publicity out, but throw as much information for having a better life outside the oppressive North Korean regime in as possible. USB sticks are regularly dropped over the border by balloons this could be increased.

the whole thing reminds me of the truman show

[hidetheelephants]

Mansells Tash said:

p1stonhead said:

Genuine question because I have no idea.... how simple would it be for the US to just fire say 1000 missiles at all NK artillery on the border to disable it before NK have a scooby what the hell just happened? If NK really are in the military dark ages, they would be pretty much scuppered after this no?

Surely the US must know where most if not all of the bits and pieces are considering how much importance it is in case of it ever coming to a proper war?

From what I've been able to pick up from various news sources and reports the issue is with the Rocket Artillery they have on mobile platforms (the regular Artillery doesn't have the range to reach Seoul). Given they're mobile and can be moved/hidden relatively easily it would be neigh on impossible to destroy every one before it can be used.

The US and South would have to have a massive first strike then run rolling patrols to attack any kit that survives. I can't imagine even a couple of platforms surviving and making successful launches on Seoul would be acceptable to the USA / S.Korea so they're pretty much in a stale mate situation.

If Trump goes for their nuclear facilities I think the only non-suicidal response that NK have is to protect their own border and hunker down, maybe have his subs attack out at sea but if he so much as fires a party popper at Seoul or any other population center it will pretty quickly lead to a full strength military response from the South and the USA.

I'd be curious whether if a combination of the various ABM systems available could provide quite solid defence against any rockets actually fired at Seoul in such circumstances; the US has already caused ructions by moving THAAD to RoK so no-one would bat an eyelid if a shipload of Iron Dome turned up in downtown Seoul and parking some AEGIS equipped ships nearby might stand a chance of stopping most if not all incoming projectiles.

[Digga]

Surely, as far as North Korea are concerned, any aggression is a one-way bet? They cannot win.

The least aggro from NK and anyone with a vested interest in not being nuked themselves - China, USA, Russia - is going to put an enormous amount of military effort into snuffing the problem out before it gets chance to do any real damage.

[Cobnapint]

scherzkeks said:

They are provocating to feed the war machine. No doubt a unilateral first strike in violation of international law is on the table again.

Not that old cookie.

[Sylvaforever]

hidetheelephants said:

Mansells Tash said:

p1stonhead said:

Genuine question because I have no idea.... how simple would it be for the US to just fire say 1000 missiles at all NK artillery on the border to disable it before NK have a scooby what the hell just happened? If NK really are in the military dark ages, they would be pretty much scuppered after this no?

Surely the US must know where most if not all of the bits and pieces are considering how much importance it is in case of it ever coming to a proper war?

From what I've been able to pick up from various news sources and reports the issue is with the Rocket Artillery they have on mobile platforms (the regular Artillery doesn't have the range to reach Seoul). Given they're mobile and can be moved/hidden relatively easily it would be neigh on impossible to destroy every one before it can be used.

The US and South would have to have a massive first strike then run rolling patrols to attack any kit that survives. I can't imagine even a couple of platforms surviving and making successful launches on Seoul would be acceptable to the USA / S.Korea so they're pretty much in a stale mate situation.

If Trump goes for their nuclear facilities I think the only non-suicidal response that NK have is to protect their own border and hunker down, maybe have his subs attack out at sea but if he so much as fires a party popper at Seoul or any other population center it will pretty quickly lead to a full strength military response from the South and the USA.

I'd be curious whether if a combination of the various ABM systems available could provide quite solid defence against any rockets actually fired at Seoul in such circumstances; the US has already caused ructions by moving THAAD to RoK so no-one would bat an eyelid if a shipload of Iron Dome turned up in downtown Seoul and parking some AEGIS equipped ships nearby might stand a chance of stopping most if not all incoming projectiles.

Nope is the short answer. Art is dug in and in range of Seoul, you wont get them all pre-emptively

It would only take a small number of shells/rockets to cause massive civ casualties using WMD.

[Efbe]

skyrover said:

People seem to think that ignoring NK will make it go away.

Unfortunately the North Korean foreign policy revolves around extortion... the more you ignore, the harder they provoke.

what exactly are they doing though?

if I call you a fknut, do you a) ignore me, b) call me a fknut back, or c) roll up with a tank, maybe three to my house and threaten to invade my house?

and what are they doing now that they havent done for the last few decades?

[p1stonhead]

Efbe said:

skyrover said:

People seem to think that ignoring NK will make it go away.

Unfortunately the North Korean foreign policy revolves around extortion... the more you ignore, the harder they provoke.

what exactly are they doing though?

if I call you a fknut, do you a) ignore me, b) call me a fknut back, or c) roll up with a tank, maybe three to my house and threaten to invade my house?

and what are they doing now that they havent done for the last few decades?

Yeah surely this is only going one way if they end up with the ability of actually getting a nuke launched out of NK itself (apparently not that close yet). Being able to hit another country changes their petty threats dramatically doesn't it?

[skyrover]

Randomly shelled a south Korean village

Torpedoed and sunk a south Korean corvette.

Multiple targeting/shooting at South Korean border patrol guards

Etc etc

They are skilled at violent provocations to extort money and food aid from the international community, but soon will have Nuclear weapons as the ultimate failsafe.

It will allow them to launch random conventional missiles at anyone to extort more aid, knowing full well they are untouchable and safe from retaliation.

This will allow the Kim dynasty to continue indefinitely

[p1stonhead]

skyrover said:

Randomly shelled a south Korean village

Torpedoed and sunk a south Korean corvette.

Multiple targeting/shooting at South Korean border patrol guards

Etc etc

They are skilled at violent provocations to extort money and food aid from the international community, but soon will have Nuclear weapons as the ultimate failsafe.

It will allow them to launch random conventional missiles at anyone to extort more aid, knowing full well they are untouchable and safe from retaliation.

This will allow the Kim dynasty to continue indefinitely

Except now the US has a fatty lunatic in charge too

[Efbe]

p1stonhead said:

Yeah surely this is only going one way if they end up with the ability of actually getting a nuke launched out of NK itself (apparently not that close yet). Being able to hit another country changes their petty threats dramatically doesn't it?

maybe... but I am 100% sure that the way to deal with a despot who thinks the world hates him, and only gains such control by proving it to his people... is not by proving it for him.

This US policy is retarded, like many before it. China is the route to end this. encourge trade, give NK a chance to work itself out of poverty and all of a sudden you will have a middle class with too much to lose. At this point you have a country you can turn. Right now you have one nutjob, and millions of lemmings.
Hw on earth can 1 (or 3?) battlegroups help solve this, and what complete fknut thinks Tubs is suddenly going to say, oh sorry guys, I'll play nicely now.

[skyrover]

The Chinese have been pushing the North Koreans to reform for years, they simply do not want to.

They recently emphasised that point by executing China's favourite NK diplomat

You are living in fantasy land

[PhillipM]

p1stonhead said:

Except now the US has a fatty lunatic in charge too

Wait, wait, just a moment. Short, small hands, slightly portly, speaks English poorly, terrible hair, mad as a box of frogs and randomly attacks other countries...has anyone seen them both in the same room!?

[eharding]

PhillipM said:

p1stonhead said:

Except now the US has a fatty lunatic in charge too

Wait, wait, just a moment. Short, small hands, slightly portly, speaks English poorly, terrible hair, mad as a box of frogs and randomly attacks other countries...has anyone seen them both in the same room!?

These criteria also select Nigel Farage during one of his legendary, and not infrequent, barsteward hangovers from Hell. Just saying.

[jbswagger]

North Korea tension: US 'armada' was not sailing to Korean peninsula

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39638012

[loafer123]

I assumed they were waiting for some additional supplies to be loaded before leaving the friendly waters & infrastructure of Australia.

[tuffer]

loafer123 said:

I assumed they were waiting for some additional supplies to be loaded before leaving the friendly waters & infrastructure of Australia.

They were in Singapore, they were due to head to Australia and had set off in that direction before doing an about turn.