UKIP - The Future - Volume 2
Discussion
May I ask how many occasions over the years have LibLabCon had to return party donations when it turned out there was something dodgy about them. Quite a few I can say.
Also how many times have they been caught using spads paid for by taxpayer's money for purely party political purposes. Clegg is under such an investigation as we speak.
People in glass houses and all that.
Also how many times have they been caught using spads paid for by taxpayer's money for purely party political purposes. Clegg is under such an investigation as we speak.
People in glass houses and all that.
Guam said:
Wombat3 said:
Guam said:
Wombat3 said:
Jinx said:
Wombat3 said:
How does that apply to the Westminster troughers then? (or doesn't it?)
Nigel isn't an MP. Westminster troughers had one golden rule - do not claim for anything that would bring the House into disrepute. Failed that one didn't they?I'm not sure it is possible to bring the EU into any further disrepute (how is that audit going again? ) and given as the MEPs do not have to even admit to what the money is being spent on there is not an obvious parallel.
Admittedly I would have liked a little more involvement by the UKIP MEPs - maybe setting a good example and help corrupt the other MEPs into a dissolve the EU way of thinking - but I'm ever the optimist......
Try again. How is it that an MEP troughing or mis-using his "allowances" is any different to what happened in Westminster (specifically given that said MEP has designs on being an MP). ?
Its a mis-use of public money.
The fact that MEPs don't have to account for money they are given arguably makes it worse if its abused. There is a "trust" system (and obviously it doesn't work across the board).
The point was simply being made that Farage (or St Nigel as perhaps we should address him since he seems to be so revered hereabouts) is evidently no more above abusing the system (whatever it may be) than are others of his ilk both in Westminster and the EU.
However, breaching the clear spirit of the purpose of allowances seems hardly dis-similar from someone who preaches at the rest of us about how "corrupt the political class is"
....if indeed it can be shown that this is what he has done.
Tell you what how about we get ALL the parties to agree to independent Audit of their expenses (not Parliament driven audits either), I mean we dont want to be accused of double standards now do we?
ISTR UKIP were in fact quite open about the fact that they use some of their allowances in this way though. If that's the case, allowed it may be, but "right", it is not.
FiF said:
May I ask how many occasions over the years have LibLabCon had to return party donations when it turned out there was something dodgy about them. Quite a few I can say.
Also how many times have they been caught using spads paid for by taxpayer's money for purely party political purposes. Clegg is under such an investigation as we speak.
People in glass houses and all that.
All true - people in glass houses....Also how many times have they been caught using spads paid for by taxpayer's money for purely party political purposes. Clegg is under such an investigation as we speak.
People in glass houses and all that.
Wombat3 said:
All true - people in glass houses....
One chap in a glass house who has used his allowance largely in pursuit of the aims under which he was elected vs someone who can't account for 1.3 million euros from his allowances but maintains that the elephant he bought on expenses wasn't actually, you know, a real effalump.Some glass appears thinner than others.
steveT350C said:
4 threads on the front page of NPE devoted to NF.
If nothing, he has got people talking and passionate again about politics.
Exactly, idiots on here and in the media seem hell bent on slating Nigel and anyone else that genuinely seems to want to make a difference. I dont care if they are not perfect, no one is!If nothing, he has got people talking and passionate again about politics.
Frankly until he came along I was not that interested in politics at all, I am now!
To wombat and the others on here, stop having a go at UKIP and tell me why I should vote for you/others. Poor leaders/followers always blame others when they have nothing constructive to say, just like weak bullies at school!
einsign said:
To wombat and the others on here, stop having a go at UKIP and tell me why I should vote for you/others. Poor leaders/followers always blame others when they have nothing constructive to say, just like weak bullies at school!
I agree that poor leaders blame others when they have nothing constructive to say.Tell me, what's the positive message in UKIP policy? i've quoted from their website, and invite you to show me the positives in it, the constructive ways in which they'd improve the country. I can only see a negative message which essentially blames the EU for pretty much every ill in Britain.
UKIP website said:
These are anxious and troubled times. As crisis follows crisis, our politicians do nothing in the face of dangers rearing up all around us.
Taxes and Government debt rise. Energy and transport costs soar. Unemployment is too high. The NHS and state education strain under a population increase of 4 million since 2001.
Another wave of uncontrolled immigration comes from the EU (this time Bulgaria and Romania). Yet the political class tells us the EU is good for the UK.
A gulf has opened between the ruling elite and the public. Because they must all follow Brussels diktats, each of the establishment main parties is now so similar voters have no real choice.
The EU controls Immigration, Business and Employment, Financial Services, Fishing, Farming, Energy and Trade. It seeks now to control Law and Order, Foreign Affairs and Tax. Only outside the EU can we start to solve the problems our country faces.
Taxes and Government debt rise. Energy and transport costs soar. Unemployment is too high. The NHS and state education strain under a population increase of 4 million since 2001.
Another wave of uncontrolled immigration comes from the EU (this time Bulgaria and Romania). Yet the political class tells us the EU is good for the UK.
A gulf has opened between the ruling elite and the public. Because they must all follow Brussels diktats, each of the establishment main parties is now so similar voters have no real choice.
The EU controls Immigration, Business and Employment, Financial Services, Fishing, Farming, Energy and Trade. It seeks now to control Law and Order, Foreign Affairs and Tax. Only outside the EU can we start to solve the problems our country faces.
longblackcoat said:
einsign said:
To wombat and the others on here, stop having a go at UKIP and tell me why I should vote for you/others. Poor leaders/followers always blame others when they have nothing constructive to say, just like weak bullies at school!
I agree that poor leaders blame others when they have nothing constructive to say.Tell me, what's the positive message in UKIP policy? i've quoted from their website, and invite you to show me the positives in it, the constructive ways in which they'd improve the country. I can only see a negative message which essentially blames the EU for pretty much every ill in Britain.
UKIP website said:
These are anxious and troubled times. As crisis follows crisis, our politicians do nothing in the face of dangers rearing up all around us.
Taxes and Government debt rise. Energy and transport costs soar. Unemployment is too high. The NHS and state education strain under a population increase of 4 million since 2001.
Another wave of uncontrolled immigration comes from the EU (this time Bulgaria and Romania). Yet the political class tells us the EU is good for the UK.
A gulf has opened between the ruling elite and the public. Because they must all follow Brussels diktats, each of the establishment main parties is now so similar voters have no real choice.
The EU controls Immigration, Business and Employment, Financial Services, Fishing, Farming, Energy and Trade. It seeks now to control Law and Order, Foreign Affairs and Tax. Only outside the EU can we start to solve the problems our country faces.
Taxes and Government debt rise. Energy and transport costs soar. Unemployment is too high. The NHS and state education strain under a population increase of 4 million since 2001.
Another wave of uncontrolled immigration comes from the EU (this time Bulgaria and Romania). Yet the political class tells us the EU is good for the UK.
A gulf has opened between the ruling elite and the public. Because they must all follow Brussels diktats, each of the establishment main parties is now so similar voters have no real choice.
The EU controls Immigration, Business and Employment, Financial Services, Fishing, Farming, Energy and Trade. It seeks now to control Law and Order, Foreign Affairs and Tax. Only outside the EU can we start to solve the problems our country faces.
love him or hate him I don't care it will be the first time I have been able to lodge a protest vote that may actually mean something. the fact we could send a whole pile of UKIPPERS to Brussels makes me smile and it will hopefully put the fear of God into the so called mainstream parties.
Timsta said:
If you'd bothered quoting the whole page it may have made more sense: http://www.ukip.org/issues
No, I quoted the bit marked "UKIP - what we stand for" as that precisely makes my point. They've set themselves out as an organisation which blames a great deal on the EU. Fair enough, it's their view. Their world view - the opening paragraphs of their statement about themselves - is almost entirely negative.Even as I read down the rest of the page, I'm struggling to see the positive, go-ahead messages. There are a great deal of "scrap this" and "prevent that" statements, but other than dogma ("No to Political Correctness - it stifles free speech") there's little to make me think that UKIP will make Britain a happier place to live.
longblackcoat said:
Timsta said:
If you'd bothered quoting the whole page it may have made more sense: http://www.ukip.org/issues
No, I quoted the bit marked "UKIP - what we stand for" as that precisely makes my point. They've set themselves out as an organisation which blames a great deal on the EU. Fair enough, it's their view. Their world view - the opening paragraphs of their statement about themselves - is almost entirely negative.Even as I read down the rest of the page, I'm struggling to see the positive, go-ahead messages. There are a great deal of "scrap this" and "prevent that" statements, but other than dogma ("No to Political Correctness - it stifles free speech") there's little to make me think that UKIP will make Britain a happier place to live.
This is not aimed at any particular person or group but a general observation.
If UKIP are so wrong about everything, why are the usual suspects LibLabCon wavering about like reeds in a wind trying to sort out their policies and making stuff up on the hoof?
If they are so convinced they are right, then have some spine, the courage of their convictions and stick to them.
Well, to their credit, the LibDems have pretty much done that, apart from entering into the coalition of course. Whist it's too strong a term to say they now face annihilation at the ballot box, decimation is definitely on the cards.
So that leaves Lab and Cons. Who clearly seem to be interested in only one thing above all else, Bugger principles,bugger the public, sod the taxpayer, just get re-elected to keep on the gravy train.
The shallowness of the usual suspects is becoming ever apparent.
If UKIP are so wrong about everything, why are the usual suspects LibLabCon wavering about like reeds in a wind trying to sort out their policies and making stuff up on the hoof?
If they are so convinced they are right, then have some spine, the courage of their convictions and stick to them.
Well, to their credit, the LibDems have pretty much done that, apart from entering into the coalition of course. Whist it's too strong a term to say they now face annihilation at the ballot box, decimation is definitely on the cards.
So that leaves Lab and Cons. Who clearly seem to be interested in only one thing above all else, Bugger principles,bugger the public, sod the taxpayer, just get re-elected to keep on the gravy train.
The shallowness of the usual suspects is becoming ever apparent.
johnxjsc1985 said:
we could send a whole pile of UKIPPERS to Brussels
Lets not forget, its a European election.As far as i can see, every EU country has an anti EU right wing party, and they all seem to be lined up to do rather well next month.
Maybe with a right wing EU parl we will get the change in Europe that we are after without having to leave? I doubt it.
Timsta said:
longblackcoat said:
Timsta said:
If you'd bothered quoting the whole page it may have made more sense: http://www.ukip.org/issues
No, I quoted the bit marked "UKIP - what we stand for" as that precisely makes my point. They've set themselves out as an organisation which blames a great deal on the EU. Fair enough, it's their view. Their world view - the opening paragraphs of their statement about themselves - is almost entirely negative.Even as I read down the rest of the page, I'm struggling to see the positive, go-ahead messages. There are a great deal of "scrap this" and "prevent that" statements, but other than dogma ("No to Political Correctness - it stifles free speech") there's little to make me think that UKIP will make Britain a happier place to live.
longblackcoat said:
Even as I read down the rest of the page, I'm struggling to see the positive, go-ahead messages. There are a great deal of "scrap this" and "prevent that" statements, but other than dogma ("No to Political Correctness - it stifles free speech") there's little to make me think that UKIP will make Britain a happier place to live.
Perhaps negative about politics / current politicians is how 20%, and counting, of the population feel.....scrapping this and that may be what will make them feel more positive and happier?FiF said:
If UKIP are so wrong about everything, why are the usual suspects LibLabCon wavering about like reeds in a wind trying to sort out their policies and making stuff up on the hoof?
if you could point me to any UKIP policies (i.e. not just vague assertions) I'd be grateful. Because if anyone has a track record of just making stuff up on the hoof, it's Farage. longblackcoat said:
FiF said:
If UKIP are so wrong about everything, why are the usual suspects LibLabCon wavering about like reeds in a wind trying to sort out their policies and making stuff up on the hoof?
if you could point me to any UKIP policies (i.e. not just vague assertions) I'd be grateful. Because if anyone has a track record of just making stuff up on the hoof, it's Farage. Benbay001 said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
we could send a whole pile of UKIPPERS to Brussels
Lets not forget, its a European election.As far as i can see, every EU country has an anti EU right wing party, and they all seem to be lined up to do rather well next month.
Maybe with a right wing EU parl we will get the change in Europe that we are after without having to leave? I doubt it.
mrpurple said:
longblackcoat said:
Even as I read down the rest of the page, I'm struggling to see the positive, go-ahead messages. There are a great deal of "scrap this" and "prevent that" statements, but other than dogma ("No to Political Correctness - it stifles free speech") there's little to make me think that UKIP will make Britain a happier place to live.
Perhaps negative about politics / current politicians is how 20%, and counting, of the population feel.....scrapping this and that may be what will make them feel more positive and happier?longblackcoat said:
if you could point me to any UKIP policies (i.e. not just vague assertions) I'd be grateful.
Trick question? Are UKIP policies for 2015 not being drawn up and independently costed at the mo? Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff