Is Britain Full?

Author
Discussion

98elise

26,376 posts

160 months

Sunday 25th June 2017
quotequote all
Mojooo said:
If the current infrastructure is full but the land is not the logical step is to build a massive new city.

I once drove through Wiltshire and spent what felt like 60mins solid driving through greenery

fk the greenery I say! Or at least we can give up one section to take the pressure off surely.
Typical levels of net migration equals the population of Coventry every year. Last year it was 50% more than that.

You then need to build the infrastructure to support a new Coventry every year. You can't just plonk it I the middle of rural Wiltshire and hope it works

Once we've got to the point we're building a new Coventry every year, all we have done is maintained the status quo. We haven't even started to address current housing issues.

Building just one more city really isn't going to help much.

PRTVR

7,073 posts

220 months

Sunday 25th June 2017
quotequote all
Mojooo said:
If the current infrastructure is full but the land is not the logical step is to build a massive new city.

I once drove through Wiltshire and spent what felt like 60mins solid driving through greenery

fk the greenery I say! Or at least we can give up one section to take the pressure off surely.
The greenery you talk of is food production , something we will need more of with an increased population.
When do you stop building new cities? where does the services come from? Electricity production is running on equipment well past it sell by date, water, the last major reservoir was built when it was under national ownership a very long time ago, very easy to say build more towns far harder to do.

Mojooo

12,668 posts

179 months

Sunday 25th June 2017
quotequote all
I'm not saying we carry on building cities forever but clearly we have the land available to build at least 1 major city.

MrBrightSi

2,912 posts

169 months

Sunday 25th June 2017
quotequote all
Mojooo said:
If the current infrastructure is full but the land is not the logical step is to build a massive new city.

I once drove through Wiltshire and spent what felt like 60mins solid driving through greenery

fk the greenery I say! Or at least we can give up one section to take the pressure off surely.
fk the greenery.

How can anyone in their right mind thing that un-ending urban sprawl is ok? We're a beautiful green country, turning it into some over burdened grey metropolis with no ending to the cookie-cutter blocks of flats and spacious car parks is absolutely disheartening to hear from someone.

Do you live in a City? Do you think the rest of the country wants that?

mondeoman

Original Poster:

11,430 posts

265 months

Sunday 25th June 2017
quotequote all
JagLover said:
The Sunday Times mentions today in an article about illegal sub letting at the Grenfell tower that illegal migration was believed to be 150,000 last year and will not have been included in the official 1/2 million increase in the population.

Which may be why there are a number of unofficial population estimates that are millions higher than the governments own figure.
The supermarkets know: everyone needs food, how much are they selling, collectively...?

Vee

3,094 posts

233 months

Sunday 25th June 2017
quotequote all
BlueHave said:
The argument that they do the jobs the native Brits CBA doing is nonsense. They do the jobs that employers think they can get away with paying rubbish wages. If the employers paid a decent living wage then they would get plenty of locals applying.

How can anyone pay a mortgage, run a car or have a decent family life on £7.50 an hour.

The Poles for example will work for minimum wage or even below because it is better than the wages back home which is a pitiful 11.54 zloty which is about £2.40

Edited by BlueHave on Sunday 25th June 01:54
Only for cash in hand though.
Those that do the work for minimum wage have no mortgage, often no legal car, and get handouts on top.
Then live 4 families to a house with local infrastructure designed for 2 parents + 2 kids in each house. Mr Landlord couldn't care less because he can rent it out for 25-50% more to such families than the average family trying to get by on minimum wage can afford to pay.
Everyone's a winner, except anyone trying to make genuine go of things.

IMO, the LAs should start dealing with landlords and the employers who pay low, cash wages.

markcoznottz

7,155 posts

223 months

Sunday 25th June 2017
quotequote all
Vee said:
BlueHave said:
The argument that they do the jobs the native Brits CBA doing is nonsense. They do the jobs that employers think they can get away with paying rubbish wages. If the employers paid a decent living wage then they would get plenty of locals applying.

How can anyone pay a mortgage, run a car or have a decent family life on £7.50 an hour.

The Poles for example will work for minimum wage or even below because it is better than the wages back home which is a pitiful 11.54 zloty which is about £2.40

Edited by BlueHave on Sunday 25th June 01:54
Only for cash in hand though.
Those that do the work for minimum wage have no mortgage, often no legal car, and get handouts on top.
Then live 4 families to a house with local infrastructure designed for 2 parents + 2 kids in each house. Mr Landlord couldn't care less because he can rent it out for 25-50% more to such families than the average family trying to get by on minimum wage can afford to pay.
Everyone's a winner, except anyone trying to make genuine go of things.

IMO, the LAs should start dealing with landlords and the employers who pay low, cash wages.
Nothing to see there, sheds with beds are also left alone for similar reasons.

Hayek

8,969 posts

207 months

Sunday 25th June 2017
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
Mojooo said:
If the current infrastructure is full but the land is not the logical step is to build a massive new city.

I once drove through Wiltshire and spent what felt like 60mins solid driving through greenery

fk the greenery I say! Or at least we can give up one section to take the pressure off surely.
The greenery you talk of is food production , something we will need more of with an increased population.
When do you stop building new cities? where does the services come from? Electricity production is running on equipment well past it sell by date, water, the last major reservoir was built when it was under national ownership a very long time ago, very easy to say build more towns far harder to do.
Sadly this line of argument seems to not be appealing enough for the average person/electorate. Suspect that the sooner we crash the car the better.

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
Mojooo said:
I'm not saying we carry on building cities forever but clearly we have the land available to build at least 1 major city.
i have not read the thread, but we have a net income of 380,000 people a year, that means we need to build a city the size of Cambridge or Oxford every 6 months to put it into perspective.

How much land do you think is available that would require demolishing peoples homes?


CoolHands

18,496 posts

194 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
It's just the decline of the human race being played out. Population growth means the population of the world be near 10 billion by 2050. People in the st counties want to go to the good countries. If we can only manage to grow by Coventry every year, we'll probably be doing well.

Out of interest where I am (in London) there's loads of foreigners who are clearly unskilled and don't work, and roam about the streets drinking, taking spice & making it very unpleasant. But it's politically incorrect to say so.

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
It's just the decline of the human race being played out. Population growth means the population of the world be near 10 billion by 2050. People in the st counties want to go to the good countries. If we can only manage to grow by Coventry every year, we'll probably be doing well.

Out of interest where I am (in London) there's loads of foreigners who are clearly unskilled and don't work, and roam about the streets drinking, taking spice & making it very unpleasant. But it's politically incorrect to say so.
Yeah, mate has just moved out of London for exactly this.
His wive was pushed to the ground with the pushchair trying to get up the steps to their place. No other reason than they were off their heads in their doorway.

This is Leinster Gardens at the top end of Kensington Church Street too, so hardly the rough end of town. The house across the street is now welfare, but they don't sit on their own doorstep.

They have just had enough of it. You can't say fk all without the fktards calling your racist or privileged. Calling the police because people are lying in your doorway is not racist, if it was a Brit they wouldn't like it either, but the it is not Brits.


markcoznottz

7,155 posts

223 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
GDP growth by importing people, worked for America 100 years ago, Pretty lazy method though, if that's the best whitehalls finest can come up with.

babatunde

736 posts

189 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
It's just the decline of the human race being played out. Population growth means the population of the world be near 10 billion by 2050. People in the st counties want to go to the good countries. If we can only manage to grow by Coventry every year, we'll probably be doing well.

Out of interest where I am (in London) there's loads of foreigners who are clearly unskilled and don't work, and roam about the streets drinking, taking spice & making it very unpleasant. But it's politically incorrect to say so.
Well I kind of see the opposite, jump on a night bus at 3 in the morning it's full of "English" people struggling to get home after a night drinking and "immigrants" off to work.

People who leave their homes and travel half way round the world trying to make a better life for themselves and their families are logically not lazy, even when they are poorly educated.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/CDP_16_11.pd...
studies show the 2nd generation immigrants outperform educationally native populations in the UK.

The England is full argument strikes me as "I've got mine" through an accident of birth, fk everyone else even though they are smarter, work harder, are more motivated and add more to the common GDP. It's a global village ironically the British empire was a big factor in opening up global trade, so to a large extent the net immigration is our fault.

vonuber

17,868 posts

164 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
I've always wondered how, if you don't hear someone speak, you can tell they are an immigrant.

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
Mojooo said:
I'm not saying we carry on building cities forever but clearly we have the land available to build at least 1 major city.
So at some point we have to stop bringing migrants because we can't put them anywhere.So why not stop now?

Ps migrants from the third world are an economic net loss and have been for 30 plus years somon top of ruining the land, infrastructure we don't have, food we don't have, shoools hospitals and doctors we don't have. We don't have any money to build these cities with in the first place.

PRTVR

7,073 posts

220 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
babatunde said:
CoolHands said:
It's just the decline of the human race being played out. Population growth means the population of the world be near 10 billion by 2050. People in the st counties want to go to the good countries. If we can only manage to grow by Coventry every year, we'll probably be doing well.

Out of interest where I am (in London) there's loads of foreigners who are clearly unskilled and don't work, and roam about the streets drinking, taking spice & making it very unpleasant. But it's politically incorrect to say so.
Well I kind of see the opposite, jump on a night bus at 3 in the morning it's full of "English" people struggling to get home after a night drinking and "immigrants" off to work.

People who leave their homes and travel half way round the world trying to make a better life for themselves and their families are logically not lazy, even when they are poorly educated.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/CDP_16_11.pd...
studies show the 2nd generation immigrants outperform educationally native populations in the UK.

The England is full argument strikes me as "I've got mine" through an accident of birth, fk everyone else even though they are smarter, work harder, are more motivated and add more to the common GDP. It's a global village ironically the British empire was a big factor in opening up global trade, so to a large extent the net immigration is our fault.
Not quite true though is it, if what you say was correct the areas that have high migrant levels would be nice places, does anybody aspire to live in certain parts of the likes of Bradford or Birmingham, Please do not start with the It's all our fault, its not , the past is the past, we live in a modern age mostly brought about by British inventions, a few years ago I was talking to a group of well educated Indian guys and the role of the UK in India's past cameup, all thought it was positive, with things like education law and the common use of the English language having make India a better place than it would have been without it ,
just look at Zimbabwe, use to be the bread basket of Africa under British rule, now a net importer of food, is that our fault also ? should we have stayed ?

gooner1

10,223 posts

178 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
vonuber said:
Troubleatmill said:
Now if you do want German do-lally - The rain water that goes down your gutters and drains is on a meter - and you get billed for that.
That's sensible - encourages the use of sustainable urban drainage systems.


You do know you pay a flat charge for the disposal of surface water, yes?
I , for one was't aware of this.
Would a house with no down pipes be exempt from, or discounted , this flat charge.
The house in question, is end of terrace, with guttering that runs straight through to the furthest end of the adjoining house. More out of curiosity than anything else, tbh.

vonuber

17,868 posts

164 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
gooner1 said:
I , for one was't aware of this.
Would a house with no down pipes be exempt from, or discounted , this flat charge.
The house in question, is end of terrace, with guttering that runs straight through to the furthest end of the adjoining house. More out of curiosity than anything else, tbh.
If your rainwater ultimately ends up in the sewer then no. If it goes to ground or direct to a watercoursr then yes.

It's not much, current rebate from Thames water is about £27/a, although I can see this rising in the future as an inventive for people to do it.

wiggy001

6,542 posts

270 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
vonuber said:
I've always wondered how, if you don't hear someone speak, you can tell they are an immigrant.
That depends. If they are what I will lazily call "integrated" immigrants then there is no way you can or should be able to tell if they are immigrants or not.

If they have chosen to come to live in a ghetto made up of their own people, choose not to speak English, choose to only work with their own people then it is pretty obvious.

Your immigrant status should be like your religion and your sexuality - it should be impossible to tell without speaking to you. But that's often not the case.

KrissKross

2,182 posts

100 months

Monday 26th June 2017
quotequote all
vonuber said:
I've always wondered how, if you don't hear someone speak, you can tell they are an immigrant.
Passports or some other type of ID?