Uber are getting shirty
Discussion
El stovey said:
It's like listening to someone saying Woolworths would never go bust or online shopping will never take off.
Uber are massive. Everyone wants uber in their area.
Poor analogy. Closer to…..people communicate via social media but talking on the phone isn't going to stop.Uber are massive. Everyone wants uber in their area.
Perhaps you could accept (for example) that a household with no access to a car might use a taxi more often than a household with access to a car. Could you also see a certain correlation between a household without a vehicle and a household without a credit card? So if you create a taxi business that can only be used with a credit card, can you see that you might be unable to satisfy the higher demand from a heavy user group (non-car households) who are also households without a credit card ? There's a certain demographic which will never be able to use uber who are very heavy minicab users.
Our 300 car company required to handle 30000+ jobs a week to keep the drivers amused. Naturally we had a credit card facility for those who liked to pay that way. There was so little demand to pay by credit card that we eventually just gave the equipment back to the issuer (RBS Silverline or something) and stopped offering payment by credit card. It made ZERO difference (and I mean ZERO) to incoming demand for cars. If we had refused all payment EXCEPT by credit card we'd have been out of business within a week. That isn't really directly competitive with uber's system.
Uber can't do account work. For example Surge fares wouldn't be acceptable to account clients who not infrequently demand price/priority advantages. Accounts cannot be individually tailored by uber. What uber COULD do is change its system strategy to operate in the same way as private hire. But unless it does then it can't compete, and it is not going to.
There are loads of issues like these. But don't confuse my understanding with being anti-uber. Why? I think it's an innovative transport alternative. But it's not a substitute for anything. It's an ALTERNATIVE.
You should try accessing an uber driver's site. Tells you quite a lot about uber from that perspective. Not all rosy, to be fair.
HerrSchnell said:
My question would be what is the problem with that?
Yes some councils gave in to the private hire industry lobbying to refuse an operating licence but they are in the minority and are now not taking enforcement action because they recognise that the licensing regs are outdated and out of step with consumer demands. The only reason for restricting Uber is the protection of the existing business models and I really don't believe that is the role of local authorities.
In fact given the current focus on prevention of child sexual expoloitation within the taxi trade local authorities are missing a trick by being hostile / ambivalent toward Uber. The task of preventing sexual abuse involving taxi drivers would be a lot easier if they spoke to Uber and got them on board with information sharing agreements which would allow access to journey data held by them when Police conduct investigations.
Because there acting as Taxi's and there not (current law means that they have the wrong insurance) There are 2 systems Pre booked (Private Hire)operated by a company who accepts bookings or Hackney carriages (Taxi) who can be hailed in the street or pre booked. They have to have the knowledge as they may not have contact with a officeYes some councils gave in to the private hire industry lobbying to refuse an operating licence but they are in the minority and are now not taking enforcement action because they recognise that the licensing regs are outdated and out of step with consumer demands. The only reason for restricting Uber is the protection of the existing business models and I really don't believe that is the role of local authorities.
In fact given the current focus on prevention of child sexual expoloitation within the taxi trade local authorities are missing a trick by being hostile / ambivalent toward Uber. The task of preventing sexual abuse involving taxi drivers would be a lot easier if they spoke to Uber and got them on board with information sharing agreements which would allow access to journey data held by them when Police conduct investigations.
The Uber drivers are licenced by the local authorities. The problem is that they are acting as Taxis and there offices are not manned. The authorities can check there records but they have to make an appointment where as a police office or Licencing office can just walk into a office.
Uber do not even care if there drivers can speak English. In my experience communication is the reason for most complaints.
Edited by hunton69 on Saturday 5th November 08:37
[quote=drainbrain]
I got the 'info' from drivers on our system who worked the uber system at peaks for the surge fares and occasionally at other times for other reasons. Uber didn't impact on our work at any time. In fact they are a boost to provincial private hire biz.
When über started up here (Glasgow) the local ph owners cartel (ahem, what's that you might ask) was very paranoid. But it was OBVIOUS what would happen next, and it did.
They must be desperate for the drivers rents then
Private Hire companies need more drivers during rush hours periods not less (That is if they have much work) Demand is higher traffic is worse so jobs take longer and therefor the good companies would not allow a driver to work some where else.
I got the 'info' from drivers on our system who worked the uber system at peaks for the surge fares and occasionally at other times for other reasons. Uber didn't impact on our work at any time. In fact they are a boost to provincial private hire biz.
When über started up here (Glasgow) the local ph owners cartel (ahem, what's that you might ask) was very paranoid. But it was OBVIOUS what would happen next, and it did.
They must be desperate for the drivers rents then
Private Hire companies need more drivers during rush hours periods not less (That is if they have much work) Demand is higher traffic is worse so jobs take longer and therefor the good companies would not allow a driver to work some where else.
hunton69 said:
Because there acting as Taxi's and there not. There are 2 systems Pre booked (Private Hire)operated by a company who accepts bookings or Hackney carriages (Taxi) who can be hailed in the street or pre booked. They have to have the knowledge as they may not have contact with a office
The Uber drivers are licenced by the local authorities. The problem is that they are acting as Taxis and there offices are not manned. The authorities can check there records but they have to make an appointment where as a police office or Licencing office can just walk into a office.
That's a problem with the licensing system rather than with Uber. The Uber drivers are licenced by the local authorities. The problem is that they are acting as Taxis and there offices are not manned. The authorities can check there records but they have to make an appointment where as a police office or Licencing office can just walk into a office.
hunton69]rainbrain said:
I got the 'info' from drivers on our system who worked the uber system at peaks for the surge fares and occasionally at other times for other reasons. Uber didn't impact on our work at any time. In fact they are a boost to provincial private hire biz.
When über started up here (Glasgow) the local ph owners cartel (ahem, what's that you might ask) was very paranoid. But it was OBVIOUS what would happen next, and it did.
£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
They must be desperate for the drivers rents then
Private Hire companies need more drivers during rush hours periods not less (That is if they have much work) Demand is higher traffic is worse so jobs take longer and therefor the good companies would not allow a driver to work some where else.
Drivers' "rents" (of PDAs) are what forms the ph firm's income. When über started up here (Glasgow) the local ph owners cartel (ahem, what's that you might ask) was very paranoid. But it was OBVIOUS what would happen next, and it did.
£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
They must be desperate for the drivers rents then
Private Hire companies need more drivers during rush hours periods not less (That is if they have much work) Demand is higher traffic is worse so jobs take longer and therefor the good companies would not allow a driver to work some where else.
ph companies DO need more drivers and would like more to be logged on during rush hour because - as is obvious- it's a time of high demand. BUT because of exactly what you said, traffic volume, it isn't a popular time for drivers esp. the evening rush hour,and that's because again exactly as you said jobs take longer, less of them get done, so less money's made. So it's at least a consolation if the uber guys are happy (because of surge fares) to pick up the rush hour stress trade and satisfy the punter.Of course it also confirms the relative costliness of uber for any ph 'regular' who will rush back to their usual firm for better prices, so punters certainly don't get lost to uber. Of course ph firms could introduce surge prices at rush hours, but won't. Which is one of the reasons that all uber'll ever get is the overspill work, and welcome to it too!
It's not about 'allowing' or not allowing drivers to work with 2 radios. ph drivers are self-employed and often open-shifted so they do what they like (within the law).
drainbrain said:
There's so much wrong with that post that it's hardly possible to answer.
1) 20-30% cheaper. Where do you think their drivers are from? Outer Space? They're mostly bribed to leave ph firms. How many drivers do you think will leave a ph firm for 20-30% lower wages? Ok yes for the sometimes big bribe. And a few weeks later? Come on…..get real. Reality? They are DEARER. But uber can't get them a fraction of the work.
2) the app. Why don't you try another company that uses apps? And you know how it works. Have a look and see how many little black ants you can see through the day in some big outlying Newcastle housing scheme? Here you get the odd one in, say, Easterhouse. 30000 people. 1 or 2 cars….30000 people. Hopefully you're not the 300th person that hour who's looking for a taxi in Easterhouse. You'll be waiting a while if you're a dedicated uber user. About a week, maybe. Course you could always wait for one to run out from the city centre 12 miles away. If any of these drivers are daft enough to run that many empty miles for 20-30% less wages.
3) corporate contract? Uber don't do accounts (do they? Don't up here anyway) How can they? Business model couldn't accommodate it. And don't think for one minute contract work isn't taken seriously by both providers and users. Why do you think likes of Glasgow NHS use ph not uber ? Just for fun, what would you GUESS that contract's worth? Or Scotrail's?
4) It's GREAT for tourists who know nothing about local ph. I'd certainly use them if they were available somewhere I'd landed abroad and didn't know anything about any local ph including a number.
They are what they are. It ain't normal UK ph and it ain't a hack biz either. What's faster? Apping for an uber or flagging down a hack with a begging light? etc etc etc.
I LIKE über. It's interesting. But I know quite a number of owners of ph firms and nobody's hurting. There's ONE guy who must be 2nd only to Add Lee in the number he owns. 1000's. He could put uber oob overnight. Very simple. Offer the drivers £1k a skull to leave. Next day do you know how many drivers uber would have? None. But he's no different to anyone else. They're useful to him and that's how they'll stay.
Must say the London experience is so totally different it's unsurprising uber gets some serious biz there. But elsewhere? Not a chance. I think you must have been using some pretty poor ph firms if they lie when you ask where your taxi is? Or is there an undiscovered opportunity for a good ph firm in n'castle?
Not sure how you know my journeys are more expensive with Uber - the receipts I get say they are cheaper. 1) 20-30% cheaper. Where do you think their drivers are from? Outer Space? They're mostly bribed to leave ph firms. How many drivers do you think will leave a ph firm for 20-30% lower wages? Ok yes for the sometimes big bribe. And a few weeks later? Come on…..get real. Reality? They are DEARER. But uber can't get them a fraction of the work.
2) the app. Why don't you try another company that uses apps? And you know how it works. Have a look and see how many little black ants you can see through the day in some big outlying Newcastle housing scheme? Here you get the odd one in, say, Easterhouse. 30000 people. 1 or 2 cars….30000 people. Hopefully you're not the 300th person that hour who's looking for a taxi in Easterhouse. You'll be waiting a while if you're a dedicated uber user. About a week, maybe. Course you could always wait for one to run out from the city centre 12 miles away. If any of these drivers are daft enough to run that many empty miles for 20-30% less wages.
3) corporate contract? Uber don't do accounts (do they? Don't up here anyway) How can they? Business model couldn't accommodate it. And don't think for one minute contract work isn't taken seriously by both providers and users. Why do you think likes of Glasgow NHS use ph not uber ? Just for fun, what would you GUESS that contract's worth? Or Scotrail's?
4) It's GREAT for tourists who know nothing about local ph. I'd certainly use them if they were available somewhere I'd landed abroad and didn't know anything about any local ph including a number.
They are what they are. It ain't normal UK ph and it ain't a hack biz either. What's faster? Apping for an uber or flagging down a hack with a begging light? etc etc etc.
I LIKE über. It's interesting. But I know quite a number of owners of ph firms and nobody's hurting. There's ONE guy who must be 2nd only to Add Lee in the number he owns. 1000's. He could put uber oob overnight. Very simple. Offer the drivers £1k a skull to leave. Next day do you know how many drivers uber would have? None. But he's no different to anyone else. They're useful to him and that's how they'll stay.
Must say the London experience is so totally different it's unsurprising uber gets some serious biz there. But elsewhere? Not a chance. I think you must have been using some pretty poor ph firms if they lie when you ask where your taxi is? Or is there an undiscovered opportunity for a good ph firm in n'castle?
I don't want to try other apps or apps that are specific to some location. I've got an app. Press the button and a car appears 10 minutes later. Hasn't failed yet. Works in London, Newcastle, Madrid, Stockholm....everywhere.
Good luck with a business model that focuses on people with no credit or debit cards.
rxe said:
Not sure how you know my journeys are more expensive with Uber - the receipts I get say they are cheaper.
I don't want to try other apps or apps that are specific to some location. I've got an app. Press the button and a car appears 10 minutes later. Hasn't failed yet. Works in London, Newcastle, Madrid, Stockholm....everywhere.
Good luck with a business model that focuses on people with no credit or debit cards.
Yes you say they are 20-30% cheaper. Plus of course no tips. So the ex-local ph driver who has joined them is making 20-30% less + no tip from your business. Which, of course, he is totally happy to do in the same way you'll be looking for a job that pays you 20-30% less + no bonus for doing the same thing as you do now. Yeah yeah yeah. You know that's nonsense you just don't want to accept it. Next you'll be telling me surge prices are lower than average ph too. Jog on. I don't want to try other apps or apps that are specific to some location. I've got an app. Press the button and a car appears 10 minutes later. Hasn't failed yet. Works in London, Newcastle, Madrid, Stockholm....everywhere.
Good luck with a business model that focuses on people with no credit or debit cards.
All ph businesses are specific to one location. Which is why it is pretty pointless for a ph firm to spend advertising budget on seo etc.
But UBER is not ph. It is something different. It is most excellent for the person who has roaming minicab needs in multi locations and has no idea where or how to order a pre-booked car in many or even any of them. THAT'S arguably it's sole and certainly biggest benefit. And in terms of regular work that must represent about 0.0001% of the population. Of course great for holidaymakers to big cities too.
As to 'car in 10 minutes', that's nonsense too. If the nearest uber willing to take your job is 10 minutes away then it'll be 10 minutes. If it's 1 minute away it'll be 1 minute. And if it's 20 minutes away it'll be 20 minutes. Of course, if you know when you'll need a car you can pre-book ph to be there WHENEVER you want it. Like people going to airports do. Or 'meet and greet' arrivers at airports do. And if you need one spontaneously, say, in a city centre, say, how can you summon an uber faster than you can wave down a hack with a light?
Uber's great when you arrive in StrangeCity and need a minicab. Unless it's StrangeTown you arrive in and the nearest uber centre is in StrangeCity 20 miles away in which case you may be some time till it arrives. Forever at a guess. What do you do in Berlin? Wait for one to get there in 10 minutes from Vienna?
It isn't about creating a business model focussing on non-card users, it's about a firm discovering how little demand there is for credit card users to pay for taxi fares. There is no problem with taking card payment. It just isn't popular with either users or drivers, although I'm sure some firms find it more popular than I did.
Put the other way round, if you focus on operating a card only payment system in a locality with pretty low or no demand for payment by card then good luck with that. Then try add in offering drivers employment at 20-30% below the going wage rate…...
Uber's been going for years now in London. Last time I was there the place was still crawling with black hacks and Add-Lees.
Another difference with this 'new' uber transport system is that the hacks and Addison make tangible trading profit, and plenty of it; uber doesn't.
What's your opinion of the sustainability of a business model that doesn't generate any operating profit and seems to generate an inordinate amount of acrimony with local and legal authorities and amongst its own staff as well? Wouldn't like to see the size of their legal bills.
Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 5th November 16:31
El stovey said:
Uber aim to get rid of drivers altogether. Uber will be operating driverless cars all over the world in the near future. Simply put, they're the future of transport. That's the sustainability of their business model.
I'd certainly agree that the driverless electric car is the future of road transport. Effectively it's just A N Other robot. How near in the future it is I wouldn't like to speculate. But why only uber should be implementing these vehicles I don't really understand at all. And if ph, hacks and uber are all using them how is that going to advantage the uber business model? There are a substantial number of hurdles to overcome before the driverless electric vehicle is a feasible commonplace. Some are going to require some enormous input to surmount. And some may actually be impossible. The randomness and unpredictability of real life can only to a certain extent be fully robotised so it may take some time before it's realised.
For example, without illegalising it, how are people who want, like, pay for and use a chauffeur, temporary or permanent, to be shoehorned into the driverless car? And how much ancillary infrastructure will be required for its successful operation? How hi-tech will a robocar have to be, for example, to recognise that a passenger has become unconscious because they've fainted and if not attended instantly may die? Something a driver can see and respond to.
Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 5th November 16:29
wolf1 said:
Quite a few private hire drivers round here are leaving uber as HMRC has a better knowledge of their earnings due to the way uber pays the drivers into their banks. I'd say HMRC will sit this one out as they'll be receiving more from this sector than before apparently.
I was under the impression that was was probably part of the reason for taxi drivers objecting to Uber. They know that Uber drivers will be paying tax on all their earnings, and they don't want to be sucked into using it, or a similar system themselves.drainbrain said:
Drivers' "rents" (of PDAs) are what forms the ph firm's income.
ph companies DO need more drivers and would like more to be logged on during rush hour because - as is obvious- it's a time of high demand. BUT because of exactly what you said, traffic volume, it isn't a popular time for drivers esp. the evening rush hour,and that's because again exactly as you said jobs take longer, less of them get done, so less money's made. So it's at least a consolation if the uber guys are happy (because of surge fares) to pick up the rush hour stress trade and satisfy the punter.Of course it also confirms the relative costliness of uber for any ph 'regular' who will rush back to their usual firm for better prices, so punters certainly don't get lost to uber. Of course ph firms could introduce surge prices at rush hours, but won't. Which is one of the reasons that all uber'll ever get is the overspill work, and welcome to it too!
It's not about 'allowing' or not allowing drivers to work with 2 radios. ph drivers are self-employed and often open-shifted so they do what they like (within the law).
I'm struggling to get where your information comes from.ph companies DO need more drivers and would like more to be logged on during rush hour because - as is obvious- it's a time of high demand. BUT because of exactly what you said, traffic volume, it isn't a popular time for drivers esp. the evening rush hour,and that's because again exactly as you said jobs take longer, less of them get done, so less money's made. So it's at least a consolation if the uber guys are happy (because of surge fares) to pick up the rush hour stress trade and satisfy the punter.Of course it also confirms the relative costliness of uber for any ph 'regular' who will rush back to their usual firm for better prices, so punters certainly don't get lost to uber. Of course ph firms could introduce surge prices at rush hours, but won't. Which is one of the reasons that all uber'll ever get is the overspill work, and welcome to it too!
It's not about 'allowing' or not allowing drivers to work with 2 radios. ph drivers are self-employed and often open-shifted so they do what they like (within the law).
Apart from London every private hire driver can use a meter and I am sure most do. Therefor all farers are more expensive during rush hour as the meter has waiting built into them. Uber's surge fares are based on this and when there is a shortage of cars the fares get very expensive so customers decline a car instead of being told there is hour wait.
Uber will not and cannot ever take over the PH trade for lots of reasons.
Uber should also be paying Vat on the profit that they make per journey but do they?
Friday lunch time will be very expensive,
drainbrain said:
Yes you say they are 20-30% cheaper. Plus of course no tips. So the ex-local ph driver who has joined them is making 20-30% less + no tip from your business. Which, of course, he is totally happy to do in the same way you'll be looking for a job that pays you 20-30% less + no bonus for doing the same thing as you do now. Yeah yeah yeah. You know that's nonsense you just don't want to accept it. Next you'll be telling me surge prices are lower than average ph too. Jog on.
All ph businesses are specific to one location. Which is why it is pretty pointless for a ph firm to spend advertising budget on seo etc.
But UBER is not ph. It is something different. It is most excellent for the person who has roaming minicab needs in multi locations and has no idea where or how to order a pre-booked car in many or even any of them. THAT'S arguably it's sole and certainly biggest benefit. And in terms of regular work that must represent about 0.0001% of the population. Of course great for holidaymakers to big cities too.
As to 'car in 10 minutes', that's nonsense too. If the nearest uber willing to take your job is 10 minutes away then it'll be 10 minutes. If it's 1 minute away it'll be 1 minute. And if it's 20 minutes away it'll be 20 minutes. Of course, if you know when you'll need a car you can pre-book ph to be there WHENEVER you want it. Like people going to airports do. Or 'meet and greet' arrivers at airports do. And if you need one spontaneously, say, in a city centre, say, how can you summon an uber faster than you can wave down a hack with a light?
Uber's great when you arrive in StrangeCity and need a minicab. Unless it's StrangeTown you arrive in and the nearest uber centre is in StrangeCity 20 miles away in which case you may be some time till it arrives. Forever at a guess. What do you do in Berlin? Wait for one to get there in 10 minutes from Vienna?
It isn't about creating a business model focussing on non-card users, it's about a firm discovering how little demand there is for credit card users to pay for taxi fares. There is no problem with taking card payment. It just isn't popular with either users or drivers, although I'm sure some firms find it more popular than I did.
Put the other way round, if you focus on operating a card only payment system in a locality with pretty low or no demand for payment by card then good luck with that. Then try add in offering drivers employment at 20-30% below the going wage rate…...
Uber's been going for years now in London. Last time I was there the place was still crawling with black hacks and Add-Lees.
Another difference with this 'new' uber transport system is that the hacks and Addison make tangible trading profit, and plenty of it; uber doesn't.
What's your opinion of the sustainability of a business model that doesn't generate any operating profit and seems to generate an inordinate amount of acrimony with local and legal authorities and amongst its own staff as well? Wouldn't like to see the size of their legal bills.
Um, we'll have to agree to differ on whether they are cheaper or not. My experience is that they are, and I have the receipts to prove it. All ph businesses are specific to one location. Which is why it is pretty pointless for a ph firm to spend advertising budget on seo etc.
But UBER is not ph. It is something different. It is most excellent for the person who has roaming minicab needs in multi locations and has no idea where or how to order a pre-booked car in many or even any of them. THAT'S arguably it's sole and certainly biggest benefit. And in terms of regular work that must represent about 0.0001% of the population. Of course great for holidaymakers to big cities too.
As to 'car in 10 minutes', that's nonsense too. If the nearest uber willing to take your job is 10 minutes away then it'll be 10 minutes. If it's 1 minute away it'll be 1 minute. And if it's 20 minutes away it'll be 20 minutes. Of course, if you know when you'll need a car you can pre-book ph to be there WHENEVER you want it. Like people going to airports do. Or 'meet and greet' arrivers at airports do. And if you need one spontaneously, say, in a city centre, say, how can you summon an uber faster than you can wave down a hack with a light?
Uber's great when you arrive in StrangeCity and need a minicab. Unless it's StrangeTown you arrive in and the nearest uber centre is in StrangeCity 20 miles away in which case you may be some time till it arrives. Forever at a guess. What do you do in Berlin? Wait for one to get there in 10 minutes from Vienna?
It isn't about creating a business model focussing on non-card users, it's about a firm discovering how little demand there is for credit card users to pay for taxi fares. There is no problem with taking card payment. It just isn't popular with either users or drivers, although I'm sure some firms find it more popular than I did.
Put the other way round, if you focus on operating a card only payment system in a locality with pretty low or no demand for payment by card then good luck with that. Then try add in offering drivers employment at 20-30% below the going wage rate…...
Uber's been going for years now in London. Last time I was there the place was still crawling with black hacks and Add-Lees.
Another difference with this 'new' uber transport system is that the hacks and Addison make tangible trading profit, and plenty of it; uber doesn't.
What's your opinion of the sustainability of a business model that doesn't generate any operating profit and seems to generate an inordinate amount of acrimony with local and legal authorities and amongst its own staff as well? Wouldn't like to see the size of their legal bills.
Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 5th November 16:31
As to availability, 6 months, 5 countries, 100+ rides - I've never had to wait more than 14 minutes for a cab. Average is about 7 minutes. Again, deny it all you want, but that is my experience.
hunton69 said:
I'm struggling to get where your information comes from.
Apart from London every private hire driver can use a meter and I am sure most do. Therefor all farers are more expensive during rush hour as the meter has waiting built into them. Uber's surge fares are based on this and when there is a shortage of cars the fares get very expensive so customers decline a car instead of being told there is hour wait.
Uber will not and cannot ever take over the PH trade for lots of reasons.
Uber should also be paying Vat on the profit that they make per journey but do they?
Friday lunch time will be very expensive,
Info based on owning and running a ph firm from July 2007-May 2016 including the period when uber arrived as a noisy (tho' now much quieter) neighbour. Apart from London every private hire driver can use a meter and I am sure most do. Therefor all farers are more expensive during rush hour as the meter has waiting built into them. Uber's surge fares are based on this and when there is a shortage of cars the fares get very expensive so customers decline a car instead of being told there is hour wait.
Uber will not and cannot ever take over the PH trade for lots of reasons.
Uber should also be paying Vat on the profit that they make per journey but do they?
Friday lunch time will be very expensive,
Our drivers had a techno-meter inbuilt in the dispatch/pda system but used a fare chart based on distance travelled. In our area that was common but probably not UK universal. Fares could be flexible which was sometimes a boon and sometimes not. Overcharging was taken very very seriously and, on second offence, sanctioned by withdrawal of PDA. AFAI remember waiting time in traffic (as per hacks) wasn't applied, although waiting time was applied in various other circumstances. Possibly if traffic waiting time had been applied via meter in rush hours we'd have kept more drivers logged on. But that would have just caused more regular- passenger- moaning if same journey was being charged higher rate.
I agree they won't take over ph, but think that they will find a niche to operate comfortably alongside ph and eventually come into co-operation with ph like the hacks have done. And yes, if they're taking the fares then fares form their turnover so vat rules should apply. Tbh don't know if they do Vat-account themselves or not. Unless they say they're only safeguarding the incoming for driver-clients like letting agents do. Still have to pay vat on their commission. Can't see how they could argue that one.
Forgive me, but I don't understand the 'Fri lunchtime' comment although that's probably because I'm already on my 3rd Sat eve glass of something tasty.
Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 5th November 20:27
rxe said:
Um, we'll have to agree to differ on whether they are cheaper or not. My experience is that they are, and I have the receipts to prove it.
As to availability, 6 months, 5 countries, 100+ rides - I've never had to wait more than 14 minutes for a cab. Average is about 7 minutes. Again, deny it all you want, but that is my experience.
In your experience not only are uber fares lower than ph, but, according to you they are 20-30% lower. I have explained to you very simply and logically why this is not so. But what I didn't explain and what you must know is that there is no such thing as an uber fare that doesn't vary according to all the circumstances in which 'surge rates' are applied. As to availability, 6 months, 5 countries, 100+ rides - I've never had to wait more than 14 minutes for a cab. Average is about 7 minutes. Again, deny it all you want, but that is my experience.
As to waiting times, I assume they are of interest to you as you've timed them but have now changed your uber waiting time from 10 minutes to 7 minutes. I certainly denied that there was some fixed uber waiting time of 10 minutes which your previous post said. But isn't it quicker to simply stop one when you want one or take the first one on rank which would save you waiting at all if speed is important? I've also said that you might extend that waiting time considerably if you hail one in certain places and at certain times, and of course if you're in one of the many places which has no uber you'll be waiting forever.
You're comparing apples and oranges. They have many things in common, but they're not the same. Uber has certain advantages over ph in certain circumstances for certain people. But more disadvantages to my way of thinking. So if, right now, I was to be offered a ph firm or an uber franchise I know which I'd take.
Surely even their ready and quick availability when ph and hacks aren't available tells you something?
drainbrain said:
In your experience not only are uber fares lower than ph, but, according to you they are 20-30% lower. I have explained to you very simply and logically why this is not so. But what I didn't explain and what you must know is that there is no such thing as an uber fare that doesn't vary according to all the circumstances in which 'surge rates' are applied.
As to waiting times, I assume they are of interest to you as you've timed them but have now changed your uber waiting time from 10 minutes to 7 minutes. I certainly denied that there was some fixed uber waiting time of 10 minutes which your previous post said. But isn't it quicker to simply stop one when you want one or take the first one on rank which would save you waiting at all if speed is important? I've also said that you might extend that waiting time considerably if you hail one in certain places and at certain times, and of course if you're in one of the many places which has no uber you'll be waiting forever.
You're comparing apples and oranges. They have many things in common, but they're not the same. Uber has certain advantages over ph in certain circumstances for certain people. But more disadvantages to my way of thinking. So if, right now, I was to be offered a ph firm or an uber franchise I know which I'd take.
Surely even their ready and quick availability when ph and hacks aren't available tells you something?
This is hard. OK, Newcastle station to our office, ends up between 13 - 14 quid, depending on the precise state of the traffic, using the rank outside the station. Gets rounded up to £15 as I don't want a load of shrapnel. Same journey in Uber, same conditions, £11 max, frequently less than a tenner. Never had surge on that journey.As to waiting times, I assume they are of interest to you as you've timed them but have now changed your uber waiting time from 10 minutes to 7 minutes. I certainly denied that there was some fixed uber waiting time of 10 minutes which your previous post said. But isn't it quicker to simply stop one when you want one or take the first one on rank which would save you waiting at all if speed is important? I've also said that you might extend that waiting time considerably if you hail one in certain places and at certain times, and of course if you're in one of the many places which has no uber you'll be waiting forever.
You're comparing apples and oranges. They have many things in common, but they're not the same. Uber has certain advantages over ph in certain circumstances for certain people. But more disadvantages to my way of thinking. So if, right now, I was to be offered a ph firm or an uber franchise I know which I'd take.
Surely even their ready and quick availability when ph and hacks aren't available tells you something?
Surge is rare and fine with me. I'm not price sensitive, If I need to pay a tenner extra to get a car now (and effectively jump the queue), that's OK.
Waiting times, well what can I say, those are the times I experience. My experience of PH is far, far worse. Both in terms of stated waiting time, and then the car actually showing up at that time. The trick you are missing with Uber is the data and precision it gives the end user. Simple example - I'm at work in the evening and I need to get to the other side of town for dinner. Fire up the app with plenty of time in hand and look at the wait times, if low, don't ask for a car until the last minute. If high, order a car and carry on working. When car is 3 minutes away, pack up, leave office, get in car.
Hailing cabs in the street? People still do that? I haven't done that for ages.
As to your last point - what it tells me is that Uber is providing a better service that is more relevant to my needs,
rxe said:
This is hard. OK, Newcastle station to our office, ends up between 13 - 14 quid, depending on the precise state of the traffic, using the rank outside the station. Gets rounded up to £15 as I don't want a load of shrapnel. Same journey in Uber, same conditions, £11 max, frequently less than a tenner. Never had surge on that journey.
Surge is rare and fine with me. I'm not price sensitive, If I need to pay a tenner extra to get a car now (and effectively jump the queue), that's OK.
Waiting times, well what can I say, those are the times I experience. My experience of PH is far, far worse. Both in terms of stated waiting time, and then the car actually showing up at that time. The trick you are missing with Uber is the data and precision it gives the end user. Simple example - I'm at work in the evening and I need to get to the other side of town for dinner. Fire up the app with plenty of time in hand and look at the wait times, if low, don't ask for a car until the last minute. If high, order a car and carry on working. When car is 3 minutes away, pack up, leave office, get in car.
Hailing cabs in the street? People still do that? I haven't done that for ages.
As to your last point - what it tells me is that Uber is providing a better service that is more relevant to my needs,
The price comparison you have made is between uber and a ranked-up hack. Uber probably are price competitive with hacks. But you haven't compared uber and ph. You've also hinted that the uber fare is variable. Does that mean that for the same regular journey the non-surge fare may vary so you never know how much it's going to be? That's odd. What's causing the variance, system or driver whim? I'd suggest the latter. You're getting drivers who've been sacked by other firms for overcharging. And I have to say that in a town like Newcastle there will be plenty of drivers who've been around the block with plenty of ph firms who end up at uber. Surge is rare and fine with me. I'm not price sensitive, If I need to pay a tenner extra to get a car now (and effectively jump the queue), that's OK.
Waiting times, well what can I say, those are the times I experience. My experience of PH is far, far worse. Both in terms of stated waiting time, and then the car actually showing up at that time. The trick you are missing with Uber is the data and precision it gives the end user. Simple example - I'm at work in the evening and I need to get to the other side of town for dinner. Fire up the app with plenty of time in hand and look at the wait times, if low, don't ask for a car until the last minute. If high, order a car and carry on working. When car is 3 minutes away, pack up, leave office, get in car.
Hailing cabs in the street? People still do that? I haven't done that for ages.
As to your last point - what it tells me is that Uber is providing a better service that is more relevant to my needs,
Having made an issue of price difference you then say you're not price sensitive and will happily pay a tenner more on a journey although your previous story illustrated a £3 difference that did seem important. Ok. Surge is priced on supply/demand. But you can only get a car at all when it's really busy from a firm with too many drivers. Firms with too many drivers end up with good drivers leaving because there's not enough work, so even at peak times there are drivers sitting empty (like the ones uber can provide). A ph firm has to very carefully balance driver numbers with job totals. Uber doesn't. It takes on ANYone. Which is why it's far more a revolving door. Which, I'm afraid, isn't really ideal as a business model. Nor is carrying too many drivers. But now we're edging into why uber is unprofitable which is a different matter.
Waiting times are very simple. The ph licence is for a pre-book service ONLY. So if you know when you're leaving the office, or when your wife wants you home for dinner or when the train/plane/boat is leaving or when your appointment is or ……..anything other than the spontaneous, phone the ph firm and book the car for a specific timed pickup. That'll save you having to schedule your trip to when uber are or aren't busy or waiting any minutes at all. Do it a month in advance if you like.
The reason why you'll see some taxis with a light usually on the roof is to let you know that they're available (light on) or unavailable (light off). It's not changed…ever. Of course people still use it. That's why they have the light there in the first place. In hackland there are some drivers who only work with the begging light and don't take radio work. Suggest you try it and see what happens. Outside London I could tell you what'll happen but you'll get a nice surprise so I won't spoil it.
What it tells you when uber's the only place you can get a car quick because the rest are unavailable is that they don't have enough work for the drivers they take on. But being a firm surviving on overspill isn't a great business model. And I'm afraid, in the provinces, especially in the huge densely populated lower economic demographies that's all uber are if even that.
Great for tourists, frequent intercity travellers (both traditional hack customers) and the occasional discounted category like students. Otherwise pretty well a waste of time. Almost inevitably clustered in the centre of main conurbations competing with each other and the hacks. Whilst the ph firms - rarely if ever city centre located - are busy working their patch for their regulars and their accounts, the majority of the former of whom are from the locality where the ph firm is based. See your uber app. Open it up and widen the map. What I guarantee you'll see is a reducing number of little black ants as you get further from the city centre. And as the map takes in the big sprawling out of city centre housing schemes- every one of which will have at least one ph firm - how many ants do you see 'ranked up' to catch the 1000's of jobs pouring in for minicabs? 1? 2? 5? Get it yet?
Edited by drainbrain on Sunday 6th November 12:48
drainbrain said:
The price comparison you have made is between uber and a ranked-up hack. Uber probably are price competitive with hacks. But you haven't compared uber and ph. You've also hinted that the uber fare is variable. Does that mean that for the same regular journey the non-surge fare may vary so you never know how much it's going to be? That's odd. What's causing the variance, system or driver whim? I'd suggest the latter. You're getting drivers who've been sacked by other firms for overcharging. And I have to say that in a town like Newcastle there will be plenty of drivers who've been around the block with plenty of ph firms who end up at uber.
Having made an issue of price difference you then say you're not price sensitive and will happily pay a tenner more on a journey although your previous story illustrated a £3 difference that did seem important. Ok. Surge is priced on supply/demand. But you can only get a car at all when it's really busy from a firm with too many drivers. Firms with too many drivers end up with good drivers leaving because there's not enough work, so even at peak times there are drivers sitting empty (like the ones uber can provide). A ph firm has to very carefully balance driver numbers with job totals. Uber doesn't. It takes on ANYone. Which is why it's far more a revolving door. Which, I'm afraid, isn't really ideal as a business model. Nor is carrying too many drivers. But now we're edging into why uber is unprofitable which is a different matter.
Waiting times are very simple. The ph licence is for a pre-book service ONLY. So if you know when you're leaving the office, or when your wife wants you home for dinner or when the train/plane/boat is leaving or when your appointment is or ……..anything other than the spontaneous, phone the ph firm and book the car for a specific timed pickup. That'll save you having to schedule your trip to when uber are or aren't busy or waiting any minutes at all. Do it a month in advance if you like.
The reason why you'll see some taxis with a light usually on the roof is to let you know that they're available (light on) or unavailable (light off). It's not changed…ever. Of course people still use it. That's why they have the light there in the first place. In hackland there are some drivers who only work with the begging light and don't take radio work. Suggest you try it and see what happens. Outside London I could tell you what'll happen but you'll get a nice surprise so I won't spoil it.
What it tells you when uber's the only place you can get a car quick because the rest are unavailable is that they don't have enough work for the drivers they take on. But being a firm surviving on overspill isn't a great business model. And I'm afraid, in the provinces, especially in the huge densely populated lower economic demographies that's all uber are if even that.
Great for tourists, frequent intercity travellers (both traditional hack customers) and the occasional discounted category like students. Otherwise pretty well a waste of time. Almost inevitably clustered in the centre of main conurbations competing with each other and the hacks. Whilst the ph firms - rarely if ever city centre located - are busy working their patch for their regulars and their accounts, the majority of the former of whom are from the locality where the ph firm is based. See your uber app. Open it up and widen the map. What I guarantee you'll see is a reducing number of little black ants as you get further from the city centre. And as the map takes in the big sprawling out of city centre housing schemes- every one of which will have at least one ph firm - how many ants do you see 'ranked up' to catch the 1000's of jobs pouring in for minicabs? 1? 2? 5? Get it yet?
I don't understand what the point is that you are trying to make?Having made an issue of price difference you then say you're not price sensitive and will happily pay a tenner more on a journey although your previous story illustrated a £3 difference that did seem important. Ok. Surge is priced on supply/demand. But you can only get a car at all when it's really busy from a firm with too many drivers. Firms with too many drivers end up with good drivers leaving because there's not enough work, so even at peak times there are drivers sitting empty (like the ones uber can provide). A ph firm has to very carefully balance driver numbers with job totals. Uber doesn't. It takes on ANYone. Which is why it's far more a revolving door. Which, I'm afraid, isn't really ideal as a business model. Nor is carrying too many drivers. But now we're edging into why uber is unprofitable which is a different matter.
Waiting times are very simple. The ph licence is for a pre-book service ONLY. So if you know when you're leaving the office, or when your wife wants you home for dinner or when the train/plane/boat is leaving or when your appointment is or ……..anything other than the spontaneous, phone the ph firm and book the car for a specific timed pickup. That'll save you having to schedule your trip to when uber are or aren't busy or waiting any minutes at all. Do it a month in advance if you like.
The reason why you'll see some taxis with a light usually on the roof is to let you know that they're available (light on) or unavailable (light off). It's not changed…ever. Of course people still use it. That's why they have the light there in the first place. In hackland there are some drivers who only work with the begging light and don't take radio work. Suggest you try it and see what happens. Outside London I could tell you what'll happen but you'll get a nice surprise so I won't spoil it.
What it tells you when uber's the only place you can get a car quick because the rest are unavailable is that they don't have enough work for the drivers they take on. But being a firm surviving on overspill isn't a great business model. And I'm afraid, in the provinces, especially in the huge densely populated lower economic demographies that's all uber are if even that.
Great for tourists, frequent intercity travellers (both traditional hack customers) and the occasional discounted category like students. Otherwise pretty well a waste of time. Almost inevitably clustered in the centre of main conurbations competing with each other and the hacks. Whilst the ph firms - rarely if ever city centre located - are busy working their patch for their regulars and their accounts, the majority of the former of whom are from the locality where the ph firm is based. See your uber app. Open it up and widen the map. What I guarantee you'll see is a reducing number of little black ants as you get further from the city centre. And as the map takes in the big sprawling out of city centre housing schemes- every one of which will have at least one ph firm - how many ants do you see 'ranked up' to catch the 1000's of jobs pouring in for minicabs? 1? 2? 5? Get it yet?
Edited by drainbrain on Sunday 6th November 12:48
So, Uber is a complete and utter disaster from beginning to end. Only, it isn't.
People that want to use Uber are using Uber. People that want to drive for Uber are driving for Uber.
As long as everybody is operating within the law - and they seem to be, what's your beef?
Just tell us. Instead of constantly nibbling away at this bone, what do you want them to do? Go away? That's not going to happen.
The Mad Monk said:
I don't understand what the point is that you are trying to make?
So, Uber is a complete and utter disaster from beginning to end. Only, it isn't.
People that want to use Uber are using Uber. People that want to drive for Uber are driving for Uber.
As long as everybody is operating within the law - and they seem to be, what's your beef?
Just tell us. Instead of constantly nibbling away at this bone, what do you want them to do? Go away? That's not going to happen.
It's an ongoing conversation on a social media site. What point is it you DON'T understand. Actually if it isn't evident then my point is that it doesn't compare well with ph because it is not exactly the same as ph.So, Uber is a complete and utter disaster from beginning to end. Only, it isn't.
People that want to use Uber are using Uber. People that want to drive for Uber are driving for Uber.
As long as everybody is operating within the law - and they seem to be, what's your beef?
Just tell us. Instead of constantly nibbling away at this bone, what do you want them to do? Go away? That's not going to happen.
Uber isn't a complete and utter disaster to me either as my input to the conversation clearly stated as my opinion, including that when I am a tourist or traveller to somewhere at or near many a major conurbation I may very well use it. That's their key niche and selling point to me.
Beef? None. Uber's a transport service which has it's place in the transport system. You can see that's my opinion. But where's my problem with it? Is debating with what I see as exe's misconceptions about it the same as having a problem with it?
Does that "tell us"? I don't want or not want uber to go away. They'll be handy if I go somewhere I don't have a number for local ph and there's not a prevalence of ranks. Unfortunately not Berlin tho because they have indeed 'gone away' like they did in Edinburgh tho' they have returned. And returning to the relevance of the thread's original subject, the impact of the recent legal change may well be a 'stay or go' issue at uber head office.
I live in a suburb 12 miles from the centre of a city. There are NO uber cars in my locality. It would take the current nearest uber car 20 minutes to get here. if any driver fancied 12 empty miles. It is Sunday afternoon. Tickover time for ph and not heavily overstretched. The local ph firm on the local little shopping street would have a car here in 5 minutes if I wanted one. The normal uber fare would be more than the local ph firm's fare. I could only use a card to pay for the uber rather than get the ride put on my account. These are facts. Not complaints. They illustrate some of the real time right now benefits over uber of using local ph. But it's comparing an apple and an orange. And it's not naysaying uber. Uber's great for telling you the name of the driver and even how he rates trip advisor style. It's price competitive with inner city black hacks. Ok, if I was in town right now on the street and wanting a cab I could wave an arm faster than I could use the uber app - and for a cab that's there instantly. But that's just another fact.
This is an uber thread. What's the problem with commenting about them on it? Can I suggest if the thread's of any interest to you especially if you've something to add to the conversation with Mr rxe then it'd be great to read it. And if the matter's of no interest to you then why bother with it?
Edited by drainbrain on Sunday 6th November 13:57
drainbrain said:
So if you know when you're leaving the office, or when your wife wants you home for dinner or when the train/plane/boat is leaving or when your appointment is or ……..anything other than the spontaneous, phone the ph firm and book the car for a specific timed pickup. That'll save you having to schedule your trip to when uber are or aren't busy or waiting any minutes at all.[/footnote]
You mean like I did recently. Journey involved two trains and a trip across London, so wasn't sure whether I would end up at my home town at 3pm or 4pm so couldn't book until I arrived at Kings Cross. When I knew about an hour before I needed the car, I phoned the PH firm at my home town (there is only one firm)."sorry, can't book you a mini-cab as they are all on school runs. You will have to wait an hour or so before I an get you one".
And then the next time, booked the mini-cab two hours in advance. They were still 20 minutes late.
Never had any issue with Uber not being able to provide a car or being 20 minutes late.
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