Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

Author
Discussion

simoid

18,347 posts

105 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Piersman2 said:
And for this alone, I'm starting to hate the Scots just a little more every day! laugh
Some would call your post anti Scottish, but I suppose it's only natural that we get judged by the quality of those we choose to represent us.

I hope you are joking, in reality.

Lefty

15,229 posts

149 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
simoid said:
Piersman2 said:
And for this alone, I'm starting to hate the Scots just a little more every day! laugh
Some would call your post anti Scottish, but I suppose it's only natural that we get judged by the quality of those we choose to represent us.

I hope you are joking, in reality.
Indeed.

Piersman, trust me, it's a very noisy small minority of scots that you should be hating.

Edinburger

7,966 posts

115 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
simoid said:
To answer your question, the SNP will point to, in no particular order:

Thatcher
Squirrels
Norway
Thatcher.

It's my personal view that they know independence will never happen, but they must ensure it is a sufficiently viable carrot in the minds of their voters. As you point out - it's good for their career prospects.
In your view simoid, what's more likely: 1) an independent Scotland, or 2) a fully federal UK constitution?


Jader1973

1,962 posts

147 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Ian Geary said:
Maybe this was covered in the last 7 volumes ( sorry, haven't checked) but have the snp put forward any analysis as to how Scotland will be stronger as a smallish country outside the EU?

On the basis an independence yes vote tomorrow couldn't enable them stay in the EU?

Their slogan should be "stronger for Scottish national party career prospects, as for Scotland, who knows"

Ian
Nail, head.

None of them are interested in what happens if a Yes vote was successful. They simply want to be the "one who got Scotland independence" and go down in history.

Ego maniacs who simply don't care about the people they supposedly represent.

don'tbesilly

8,540 posts

110 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Jader1973 said:
Ian Geary said:
Maybe this was covered in the last 7 volumes ( sorry, haven't checked) but have the snp put forward any analysis as to how Scotland will be stronger as a smallish country outside the EU?

On the basis an independence yes vote tomorrow couldn't enable them stay in the EU?

Their slogan should be "stronger for Scottish national party career prospects, as for Scotland, who knows"

Ian
Nail, head.

None of them are interested in what happens if a Yes vote was successful. They simply want to be the "one who got Scotland independence" and go down in history.

Ego maniacs who simply don't care about the people they supposedly represent.
Which was suitably demonstrated last night on QT by Joanna Cherry.
When JC was asked what should have been a straight forward question with a straight forward answer about the currency an independent Scotland would be using, she suddenly lost her voice, which given her vocality during the programme was very odd.

danllama

4,701 posts

89 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Would it be possible to simply dissolve Scotland into England?

That seems like two birds with one stone to me.

technodup

5,827 posts

77 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
don'tbesilly said:
Which was suitably demonstrated last night on QT by Joanna Cherry.
When JC was asked what should have been a straight forward question with a straight forward answer about the currency an independent Scotland would be using, she suddenly lost her voice, which given her vocality during the programme was very odd.
I'm sure we've been through all this before, SNP want a referendum, get one, don't have any idea what currency we'd use, or a million other things other than 'Westminster bad'.

It's like fking groundhog day.

Piersman2

5,689 posts

146 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Lefty said:
simoid said:
Piersman2 said:
And for this alone, I'm starting to hate the Scots just a little more every day! laugh
Some would call your post anti Scottish, but I suppose it's only natural that we get judged by the quality of those we choose to represent us.

I hope you are joking, in reality.
Indeed.

Piersman, trust me, it's a very noisy small minority of scots that you should be hating.
Yes, I am joking, to a certain extent, see the smilie icon. I lived in Scotland for 16 years so have a good understanding of the underlying politics at play here and the attitudes of the distintly differing 'classes' of Scots. However my comment does have an element of truth behind it as well.

We did all this just 3 years ago. The rhetoric and bile that the SNP continues to broadcast to the media and therefore the rest of the UK is not good for the UK and it's certainly not good for Scotland. People down here are not hearing a message from Scotland other than Sturgeon's voice. If that's what the majority of Scots are happy to be representative of Scotland then fine, if it's not (as I suspect) then the silent majority needs to step up and get rid.

blade runner

781 posts

159 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
technodup said:
'm sure we've been through all this before, SNP want a referendum, get one, don't have any idea what currency we'd use, or a million other things other than 'Westminster bad'.

It's like fking groundhog day.
Surely it has to be the Euro though? I know Scotland might 'want' to keep using sterling, but wouldn't the EU insist that Scotland take the Euro as a condition of membership? If so, how would it work in the interim period? Would the BoE even be prepared to issue sterling loans to an independent Scotland - which surely would be essential to keep their economy from collapsing? I profess to know nothing about these sorts of issues, just genuinely curious to know how it could possibly be worked out in reality.

Edited by blade runner on Friday 17th March 10:06

r11co

6,244 posts

177 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
simoid said:
It's my personal view that they know independence will never happen, but they must ensure it is a sufficiently viable carrot in the minds of their voters. As you point out - it's good for their career prospects.
This.

Sturgeon would 'do a Gove' if Scotland were to vote for independence IMO.

worsy

3,354 posts

122 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Piersman2 said:
Lefty said:
simoid said:
Piersman2 said:
And for this alone, I'm starting to hate the Scots just a little more every day! laugh
Some would call your post anti Scottish, but I suppose it's only natural that we get judged by the quality of those we choose to represent us.

I hope you are joking, in reality.
Indeed.

Piersman, trust me, it's a very noisy small minority of scots that you should be hating.
Yes, I am joking, to a certain extent, see the smilie icon. I lived in Scotland for 16 years so have a good understanding of the underlying politics at play here and the attitudes of the distintly differing 'classes' of Scots. However my comment does have an element of truth behind it as well.

We did all this just 3 years ago. The rhetoric and bile that the SNP continues to broadcast to the media and therefore the rest of the UK is not good for the UK and it's certainly not good for Scotland. People down here are not hearing a message from Scotland other than Sturgeon's voice. If that's what the majority of Scots are happy to be representative of Scotland then fine, if it's not (as I suspect) then the silent majority needs to step up and get rid.
The issue of course is that vast swathes of voters in Scotland feel that the SNP better represent Scotland at Westminster. I have some sympathy with that position as without doubt they raise the Scottish profile. The issue of course is that they are making a hash of governing Scotland. There is little alternative though. The Conservatives have no chance as the aforementioned governing issues is creating a generation of poorly educated benefit claimants. Labour are in a mess at Westminster and completely mistrusted for getting together with the Tories around Better Together. This leaves the Lib Dems, who sans Farron, might be best placed.

gofasterrosssco

1,143 posts

183 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all

John Nicol was asked about what currency was to be used on This Week, last night.

He, like Cherry, stated that's being "worked on" and we'd get a 'Scotland's Future 2' (can we call it Back to the Future?). Can't wait for that hehe

So they are calling a referendum clearly without having worked out or come up with any credible answers to the previous big questions.. Who needs money when you've got flags though eh!

FN2TypeR

6,354 posts

40 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
gofasterrosssco said:
John Nicol was asked about what currency was to be used on This Week, last night.

He, like Cherry, stated that's being "worked on" and we'd get a 'Scotland's Future 2' (can we call it Back to the Future?). Can't wait for that hehe

So they are calling a referendum clearly without having worked out or come up with any credible answers to the previous big questions.. Who needs money when you've got flags though eh!
Well, it worked for BoJo

SilverSixer

6,100 posts

98 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Piersman2 said:
Lefty said:
simoid said:
Piersman2 said:
And for this alone, I'm starting to hate the Scots just a little more every day! laugh
Some would call your post anti Scottish, but I suppose it's only natural that we get judged by the quality of those we choose to represent us.

I hope you are joking, in reality.
Indeed.

Piersman, trust me, it's a very noisy small minority of scots that you should be hating.
Yes, I am joking, to a certain extent, see the smilie icon. I lived in Scotland for 16 years so have a good understanding of the underlying politics at play here and the attitudes of the distintly differing 'classes' of Scots. However my comment does have an element of truth behind it as well.

We did all this just 3 years ago. The rhetoric and bile that the SNP continues to broadcast to the media and therefore the rest of the UK is not good for the UK and it's certainly not good for Scotland. People down here are not hearing a message from Scotland other than Sturgeon's voice. If that's what the majority of Scots are happy to be representative of Scotland then fine, if it's not (as I suspect) then the silent majority needs to step up and get rid.
Bold bit's not really true. I'm "down here", and I hear plenty from Ruth Davidson and Kezia Dugdale, for example. I suppose it depends where you point your ears. Much to admire in Davidson I find, and that's from someone who isn't Tory inclined at the moment (have voted for them in the past before they went the full Bluekip).

r11co

6,244 posts

177 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
gofasterrosssco said:
John Nicolson.......
Arrgh. That self-righteous ahole. I can remember when he was a high school debater.

Nicolson is a classic greasy-pole career climber and champagne socialist.

gruffalo

6,018 posts

173 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
SilverSixer said:
Piersman2 said:
Lefty said:
simoid said:
Piersman2 said:
And for this alone, I'm starting to hate the Scots just a little more every day! laugh
Some would call your post anti Scottish, but I suppose it's only natural that we get judged by the quality of those we choose to represent us.

I hope you are joking, in reality.
Indeed.

Piersman, trust me, it's a very noisy small minority of scots that you should be hating.
Yes, I am joking, to a certain extent, see the smilie icon. I lived in Scotland for 16 years so have a good understanding of the underlying politics at play here and the attitudes of the distintly differing 'classes' of Scots. However my comment does have an element of truth behind it as well.

We did all this just 3 years ago. The rhetoric and bile that the SNP continues to broadcast to the media and therefore the rest of the UK is not good for the UK and it's certainly not good for Scotland. People down here are not hearing a message from Scotland other than Sturgeon's voice. If that's what the majority of Scots are happy to be representative of Scotland then fine, if it's not (as I suspect) then the silent majority needs to step up and get rid.
Bold bit's not really true. I'm "down here", and I hear plenty from Ruth Davidson and Kezia Dugdale, for example. I suppose it depends where you point your ears. Much to admire in Davidson I find, and that's from someone who isn't Tory inclined at the moment (have voted for them in the past before they went the full Bluekip).
I am also down here in the sunny south east and every time I see a clip from parliament where the SNP are exercising their vocal chords they are not putting a good image of Scotland forward, unless of course Scotland wants to be seen as behaving like a petulant child.


steviegunn

1,232 posts

131 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
drab1 said:
In the build up to the first once in a generation vote, I posted on here (using an older account) about how i was going to vote yes. My reasoning was something along the lines of "yes it will probably not be good for Scotland but at least we'll stand / fall on our own two feet". By the time the day to vote arrived i wasn't quite sure about it, and ended up declining to vote as neither side had put forward a coherent argument.

This time, they could wheel out Einstein and Plato as the yes figureheads and I'd still vote to stay just out of principle. I'm ashamed that there's still people in this country who believe another referendum can possibly be the right thing to do. I sincerely hope the majority of my fellow Scots realise the UK has more pressing issues to deal with just now than this nonsense.
I am in a similar position, other than I did vote for Independence in 2014, partly to get out of the EU, partly to end the winging of the swathes of my fellow countryfolk who constantly blame all their ills on England but mostly because I believe smaller developed nations better serve their populations than larger ones (something for a different debate on happiness and well being indexes, etc).

I also voted Brexit for similar reasons, however I oppose another Independence referendum and would definately vote no to leave the UK, at least until we have left the EU and a reasonable period of time has passed for the place of the UK and it's constituent parts in the world has settled. For Scotland to exit the UK at the same time is just not on, I expect Brexit to be pretty messy, throwing a load more fuel on the fire is insanity.

Sturgeon and the SNP need to concentrate on governing Scotland properly, something they are becoming more and more useless at. They are in government by default, having been "competent" for the last couple of parliaments, Labour are a shambles, the Lib Dems are barely relevent, it's a shame the Conservatives are still so loathed by so many, particularly in the central belt, I think Scotland could do rather well with a Ruth Davidson lead Holyrood.

The SNP also need to reign in a number of their more vociferous gobstes (MPs and MSPs), who with their pointless diatribes, more and more, resemble the braindead, ill informed, vacious ranters I stumble upon on Youtube from time to time.

percymk4

365 posts

133 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
https://www.facebook.com/theSNP/videos/vb.77249349...

If anyone fancies a laugh/ cry. SNP conference live now.

Sylvaforever

2,212 posts

45 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
To answer your question, the SNP will point to, in no particular order:

Thatcher
Squirrels
Norway
Thatcher.

It's my personal view that they know independence will never happen, but they must ensure it is a sufficiently viable carrot in the minds of their voters. As you point out - it's good for their career prospects.
In your view simoid, what's more likely: 1) an independent Scotland, or 2) a fully federal UK constitution?
You need to answer some questions before setting your own, nat.

Sylvaforever

2,212 posts

45 months

Friday 17th March 2017
quotequote all
technodup said:
'm sure we've been through all this before, SNP want a referendum, get one, don't have any idea what currency we'd use, or a million other things other than 'Westminster bad'.

It's like fking groundhog day.
No it's...

CONFERENCE TIME