Benefits of Brexit

[Rich_W]

Atomic12C said:

PH XKR said:

The wider issue is that realistically people cannot live on minimum wage ...

This is something I hear a lot by people in the UK.... I fundamentally disagree with it.

The problem is more like people are not willing to live within their means; everyone thinks they are entitled to lives of luxury and not prepared to either educate or work for it.

I'd say this was a primary result of Labour's benefit hand outs which installed in to a number of generations that it was ok to be "disadvantaged" because the system would be there for you.
Yes, there should be a safety net for those who need it, but not as a life choice which it started to turn in to.

But the problem is that people started to turn down minimum wage jobs as they had the choice of living off the taxpayer.

I think the current issue of the UK unemployed needs some messages of reality in order to allow Brexit to work.

NMW becomes £7.50 from April
Multiply by the traditional 173.33 hours per month = £1299.98
Tax £68
NIC £74
Lets assume £20 a month pension

Deductions £161
(source http://www.icalculator.info/tax_calculator/2017.ht...

£1138

Average rent 1 bed flat in the SE where I live £600 p.m.
Gas/Electric?
Food
Commuting costs?

Not a hope in hell!

Of course if you squash 6 non English speaking Poles into a 3 bed semi and they pool everything it's do-abale. But it's not exactly what the aim was with nmw!

[Atomic12C]

Rich_W said:

NMW becomes £7.50 from April
Multiply by the traditional 173.33 hours per month = £1299.98
Tax £68
NIC £74
Lets assume £20 a month pension

Deductions £161
(source http://www.icalculator.info/tax_calculator/2017.ht...

£1138

Average rent 1 bed flat in the SE where I live £600 p.m.
Gas/Electric?
Food
Commuting costs?

Not a hope in hell!

Of course if you squash 6 non English speaking Poles into a 3 bed semi and they pool everything it's do-abale. But it's not exactly what the aim was with nmw!

"Not a hope in hell" ?
I disagree.
I form my opinion on numerous individuals, couples and families that I know who are on NMW.
They happen to be some of the most down to earth and realistic people I know.

Instead of renting £600 per month accommodation they are in quite decent £400 to £500 per month. (The couples obviously splitting the costs between two).
They also don't subscribe to SKY TV nor do they 'upgrade' their mobile phone contracts every year.
They don't have TVs in every room and they don't rent the newest release of euro-box car every few years.
Finally they don't live their lives in credit card debt. They manage their income and their spending and they 'get by' relatively easily. Not a well off lifestyle by any means but they don't struggle and they don't live in fantasy land by expecting to live lives of luxury.


Take your example..
£1299 - 68 - 74 (not including pension as that may be unrealistic on this income) = 1157
- £600 rent
- 80 (electric)
- 10 (water)
- 70 (gas)
- 160 (food)

= £381

£381 left for spending on commuting/saving/additionals

Not a lot I accept but the NMW is a base level of which people should be able to "get by" without borrowing or spiraling in to debt on credit interest.


What does this mean for Brexit?
If the British mentality can change from turning down NMW jobs in favour of living off the state, then Britain would not have to rely on imported labour. It would also ease the burden on the taxpayer whereby more money can go in to the likes of education and infrastructure spending.
I think it just needs people to stop saying that the NMW is not adequate (especially if you approach it and treat it with respect and with its intended purpose).

[PH XKR]

Atomic12C said:

Rich_W said:

NMW becomes £7.50 from April
Multiply by the traditional 173.33 hours per month = £1299.98
Tax £68
NIC £74
Lets assume £20 a month pension

Deductions £161
(source http://www.icalculator.info/tax_calculator/2017.ht...

£1138

Average rent 1 bed flat in the SE where I live £600 p.m.
Gas/Electric?
Food
Commuting costs?

Not a hope in hell!

Of course if you squash 6 non English speaking Poles into a 3 bed semi and they pool everything it's do-abale. But it's not exactly what the aim was with nmw!

"Not a hope in hell" ?
I disagree.
I form my opinion on numerous individuals, couples and families that I know who are on NMW.
They happen to be some of the most down to earth and realistic people I know.

Instead of renting £600 per month accommodation they are in quite decent £400 to £500 per month. (The couples obviously splitting the costs between two).
They also don't subscribe to SKY TV nor do they 'upgrade' their mobile phone contracts every year.
They don't have TVs in every room and they don't rent the newest release of euro-box car every few years.
Finally they don't live their lives in credit card debt. They manage their income and their spending and they 'get by' relatively easily. Not a well off lifestyle by any means but they don't struggle and they don't live in fantasy land by expecting to live lives of luxury.


Take your example..
£1299 - 68 - 74 (not including pension as that may be unrealistic on this income) = 1157
- £600 rent
- 80 (electric)
- 10 (water)
- 70 (gas)
- 160 (food)

= £381

£381 left for spending on commuting/saving/additionals

Not a lot I accept but the NMW is a base level of which people should be able to "get by" without borrowing or spiraling in to debt on credit interest.


What does this mean for Brexit?
If the British mentality can change from turning down NMW jobs in favour of living off the state, then Britain would not have to rely on imported labour. It would also ease the burden on the taxpayer whereby more money can go in to the likes of education and infrastructure spending.
I think it just needs people to stop saying that the NMW is not adequate (especially if you approach it and treat it with respect and with its intended purpose).

I live in a cheapish town, Swindon. I give you to the end of the day to find something to rent that is suitable for a couple on nmw. If you want a bigger challenge find something for a small family on nmw.

You can widen the search area but remember that adds costs on the commute.

[PH XKR]

The couple you describe could be my new tenants, except add two kids. No holidays on that list or fun days out with their kids.

Boy and girl of certain age so by law need a three bed. We are renting to them at 200 below market as wed rather they can afford rent and look after the place.

[Shakermaker]

Without Brexit, we would never have been treated to the Daily Mail featuring a front page pic of Theresa and Nicola with their legs out, with the intention of trying to make them "sexy" somehow.

I won't link to the picture, if you want to see it I suggest you eat some ice cream first so that when you inevitably throw up, you'll at least have the pleasant aftertaste of ice cream cooling the back of your throat.

[sparks_E39]

Atomic12C said:

Rich_W said:

NMW becomes £7.50 from April
Multiply by the traditional 173.33 hours per month = £1299.98
Tax £68
NIC £74
Lets assume £20 a month pension

Deductions £161
(source http://www.icalculator.info/tax_calculator/2017.ht...

£1138

Average rent 1 bed flat in the SE where I live £600 p.m.
Gas/Electric?
Food
Commuting costs?

Not a hope in hell!

Of course if you squash 6 non English speaking Poles into a 3 bed semi and they pool everything it's do-abale. But it's not exactly what the aim was with nmw!

"Not a hope in hell" ?
I disagree.
I form my opinion on numerous individuals, couples and families that I know who are on NMW.
They happen to be some of the most down to earth and realistic people I know.

Instead of renting £600 per month accommodation they are in quite decent £400 to £500 per month. (The couples obviously splitting the costs between two).
They also don't subscribe to SKY TV nor do they 'upgrade' their mobile phone contracts every year.
They don't have TVs in every room and they don't rent the newest release of euro-box car every few years.
Finally they don't live their lives in credit card debt. They manage their income and their spending and they 'get by' relatively easily. Not a well off lifestyle by any means but they don't struggle and they don't live in fantasy land by expecting to live lives of luxury.


Take your example..
£1299 - 68 - 74 (not including pension as that may be unrealistic on this income) = 1157
- £600 rent
- 80 (electric)
- 10 (water)
- 70 (gas)
- 160 (food)

= £381

£381 left for spending on commuting/saving/additionals

Not a lot I accept but the NMW is a base level of which people should be able to "get by" without borrowing or spiraling in to debt on credit interest.


What does this mean for Brexit?
If the British mentality can change from turning down NMW jobs in favour of living off the state, then Britain would not have to rely on imported labour. It would also ease the burden on the taxpayer whereby more money can go in to the likes of education and infrastructure spending.
I think it just needs people to stop saying that the NMW is not adequate (especially if you approach it and treat it with respect and with its intended purpose).

I agree, I wrote this last night but fell asleep before I finished it. Pardon me but I do go on a bit.

Rich_W said:

NMW becomes £7.50 from April
Multiply by the traditional 173.33 hours per month = £1299.98
Tax £68
NIC £74
Lets assume £20 a month pension

Deductions £161
(source http://www.icalculator.info/tax_calculator/2017.ht...

£1138

Average rent 1 bed flat in the SE where I live £600 p.m.
Gas/Electric?
Food
Commuting costs?

Not a hope in hell!

Of course if you squash 6 non English speaking Poles into a 3 bed semi and they pool everything it's do-abale. But it's not exactly what the aim was with nmw!

Respectfully, I disagree. There is a hope in hell. Christ I know multiple people earning around NMW and they all get on fine. Good honest decent hard working people. Because you don't need to have Sky TV, spend £5 every lunch time or spend more than £35 a week on food for two. You don't have to plough through £30 of booze every weekend and you don't need to send your kids to private school or buy them an iPhone 7 to stop getting bullied. I hear "school fees" a lot on PH. The only "school fees" my parents had to fork out for was around £25 on uniform maybe twice a year and packed lunch. A homemade sandwich some crisps and a drink rather than giving me £25 a week for lunch. You don't have to have a financed car on the drive. A single person can house share. £350 - £400pm in Dorset for somewhere nice. Two sensible people earning NMW can afford £650 pm renting. I know it's down to circumstance but if you're a low earner spending loads commuting, move closer. Car share, cycle. If it's possible, just do something about it. Also relevant to this discussion are children. They aren't an entitlement, you need to be sure that if you are bringing a life into this world you can decently provide for it. Granted it doesn't always work that way, but thinking "we want kids and I'll just bear the repercussions later" isn't the best way forward for someone earning NMW with uncontrollable debts. A low earning couple with a sensible outlook can manage.

It isn't glamorous I agree, but live within your means, you'll have a hope in hell. It is all you need to do. It's what my parents did and what we do, and genuinely, life is good. As detailed we earn not a huge amount more than NMW each, so we are living it, I'm hardly pulling all this out of thin air. The vast majority of people I have seen struggling are the ones who have lived beyond their means for so long, crippling debt is getting on top of them. It's not what they earn that's the issue, it's what they feel they're entitled to. On my wages why am I allowed thousands of pounds worth of credit, that if I were to exploit would cripple me for decades? I shouldn't be. That's the problem, it's too easy. Buy now pay think later is what sends millions of people's finances down the stter.

Putting £550 each into a joint account each month covers everything to do with living costs. We then have other bills circa £200 each. The rest of it is ours to spend or save as we wish. Out of a joint income of around £2600 take home, we're okay. We are planning ahead for kids. With childcare plus the willing assistance of childcare from parents (grandparents to be), maternity pay and other entitlements (read not grabbing every benefit going, but like the NMW using the system properly) we believe we can do it. Sacrifices will have to be made. Jetting off every year for holiday is out of the question and I might not be able to keep a second car.. I'll have to wait for an Xbox game to be in the bargain bin etc etc, but we have these expectations.

[Murph7355]

sparks_E39 said:

Respectfully, I disagree. There is a hope in hell. Christ I know multiple people earning around NMW and they all get on fine. Good honest decent hard working people. Because you don't need to have Sky TV, spend £5 every lunch time or spend more than £35 a week on food for two. You don't have to plough through £30 of booze every weekend and you don't need to send your kids to private school or buy them an iPhone 7 to stop getting bullied. I hear "school fees" a lot on PH. The only "school fees" my parents had to fork out for was around £25 on uniform maybe twice a year and packed lunch. A homemade sandwich some crisps and a drink rather than giving me £25 a week for lunch. You don't have to have a financed car on the drive. A single person can house share. £350 - £400pm in Dorset for somewhere nice. Two sensible people earning NMW can afford £650 pm renting. I know it's down to circumstance but if you're a low earner spending loads commuting, move closer. Car share, cycle. If it's possible, just do something about it. Also relevant to this discussion are children. They aren't an entitlement, you need to be sure that if you are bringing a life into this world you can decently provide for it. Granted it doesn't always work that way, but thinking "we want kids and I'll just bear the repercussions later" isn't the best way forward for someone earning NMW with uncontrollable debts. A low earning couple with a sensible outlook can manage.

It isn't glamorous I agree, but live within your means, you'll have a hope in hell. It is all you need to do. It's what my parents did and what we do, and genuinely, life is good. As detailed we earn not a huge amount more than NMW each, so we are living it, I'm hardly pulling all this out of thin air. The vast majority of people I have seen struggling are the ones who have lived beyond their means for so long, crippling debt is getting on top of them. It's not what they earn that's the issue, it's what they feel they're entitled to. On my wages why am I allowed thousands of pounds worth of credit, that if I were to exploit would cripple me for decades? I shouldn't be. That's the problem, it's too easy. Buy now pay think later is what sends millions of people's finances down the stter.

Putting £550 each into a joint account each month covers everything to do with living costs. We then have other bills circa £200 each. The rest of it is ours to spend or save as we wish. Out of a joint income of around £2600 take home, we're okay. We are planning ahead for kids. With childcare plus the willing assistance of childcare from parents (grandparents to be), maternity pay and other entitlements (read not grabbing every benefit going, but like the NMW using the system properly) we believe we can do it. Sacrifices will have to be made. Jetting off every year for holiday is out of the question and I might not be able to keep a second car.. I'll have to wait for an Xbox game to be in the bargain bin etc etc, but we have these expectations.

[PH XKR]

Atomic12C said:

Rich_W said:

NMW becomes £7.50 from April
Multiply by the traditional 173.33 hours per month = £1299.98
Tax £68
NIC £74
Lets assume £20 a month pension

Deductions £161
(source http://www.icalculator.info/tax_calculator/2017.ht...

£1138

Average rent 1 bed flat in the SE where I live £600 p.m.
Gas/Electric?
Food
Commuting costs?

Not a hope in hell!

Of course if you squash 6 non English speaking Poles into a 3 bed semi and they pool everything it's do-abale. But it's not exactly what the aim was with nmw!

"Not a hope in hell" ?
I disagree.
I form my opinion on numerous individuals, couples and families that I know who are on NMW.
They happen to be some of the most down to earth and realistic people I know.

Instead of renting £600 per month accommodation they are in quite decent £400 to £500 per month. (The couples obviously splitting the costs between two).
They also don't subscribe to SKY TV nor do they 'upgrade' their mobile phone contracts every year.
They don't have TVs in every room and they don't rent the newest release of euro-box car every few years.
Finally they don't live their lives in credit card debt. They manage their income and their spending and they 'get by' relatively easily. Not a well off lifestyle by any means but they don't struggle and they don't live in fantasy land by expecting to live lives of luxury.


Take your example..
£1299 - 68 - 74 (not including pension as that may be unrealistic on this income) = 1157
- £600 rent
- 80 (electric)
- 10 (water)
- 70 (gas)
- 160 (food)

= £381

£381 left for spending on commuting/saving/additionals

Not a lot I accept but the NMW is a base level of which people should be able to "get by" without borrowing or spiraling in to debt on credit interest.


What does this mean for Brexit?
If the British mentality can change from turning down NMW jobs in favour of living off the state, then Britain would not have to rely on imported labour. It would also ease the burden on the taxpayer whereby more money can go in to the likes of education and infrastructure spending.
I think it just needs people to stop saying that the NMW is not adequate (especially if you approach it and treat it with respect and with its intended purpose).

so following a very easy challenge, you either couldn't be bothered or couldn't prove your point.

[mickytruelove]

We might even get powerful vacuum cleaners back!

[///ajd]

sparks_E39 said:

Respectfully, I disagree. There is a hope in hell. Christ I know multiple people earning around NMW and they all get on fine. Good honest decent hard working people. Because you don't need to have Sky TV, spend £5 every lunch time or spend more than £35 a week on food for two. You don't have to plough through £30 of booze every weekend and you don't need to send your kids to private school or buy them an iPhone 7 to stop getting bullied. I hear "school fees" a lot on PH. The only "school fees" my parents had to fork out for was around £25 on uniform maybe twice a year and packed lunch. A homemade sandwich some crisps and a drink rather than giving me £25 a week for lunch. You don't have to have a financed car on the drive. A single person can house share. £350 - £400pm in Dorset for somewhere nice. Two sensible people earning NMW can afford £650 pm renting. I know it's down to circumstance but if you're a low earner spending loads commuting, move closer. Car share, cycle. If it's possible, just do something about it. Also relevant to this discussion are children. They aren't an entitlement, you need to be sure that if you are bringing a life into this world you can decently provide for it. Granted it doesn't always work that way, but thinking "we want kids and I'll just bear the repercussions later" isn't the best way forward for someone earning NMW with uncontrollable debts. A low earning couple with a sensible outlook can manage.

It isn't glamorous I agree, but live within your means, you'll have a hope in hell. It is all you need to do. It's what my parents did and what we do, and genuinely, life is good. As detailed we earn not a huge amount more than NMW each, so we are living it, I'm hardly pulling all this out of thin air. The vast majority of people I have seen struggling are the ones who have lived beyond their means for so long, crippling debt is getting on top of them. It's not what they earn that's the issue, it's what they feel they're entitled to. On my wages why am I allowed thousands of pounds worth of credit, that if I were to exploit would cripple me for decades? I shouldn't be. That's the problem, it's too easy. Buy now pay think later is what sends millions of people's finances down the stter.

Putting £550 each into a joint account each month covers everything to do with living costs. We then have other bills circa £200 each. The rest of it is ours to spend or save as we wish. Out of a joint income of around £2600 take home, we're okay. We are planning ahead for kids. With childcare plus the willing assistance of childcare from parents (grandparents to be), maternity pay and other entitlements (read not grabbing every benefit going, but like the NMW using the system properly) we believe we can do it. Sacrifices will have to be made. Jetting off every year for holiday is out of the question and I might not be able to keep a second car.. I'll have to wait for an Xbox game to be in the bargain bin etc etc, but we have these expectations.

Well said, nice to see common sense is alive and well.

[Atomic12C]

PH XKR said:

so following a very easy challenge, you either couldn't be bothered or couldn't prove your point.

Couldn't be bothered is the correct answer - after literally a 2min search on zoopla turned up 6 results straight away for £600 (or below) rentals in Swindon - I presumed you were trolling.

I may still be proven right on your next reply

[BoRED S2upid]

PH XKR said:

I live in a cheapish town, Swindon. I give you to the end of the day to find something to rent that is suitable for a couple on nmw. If you want a bigger challenge find something for a small family on nmw.

You can widen the search area but remember that adds costs on the commute.

There are plenty of 1 bed excouncil flats to rent for £450-£500 pcm some with bills included.

[jjlynn27]

sparks_E39 said:

Respectfully, I disagree. There is a hope in hell. Christ I know multiple people earning around NMW and they all get on fine. Good honest decent hard working people. Because you don't need to have Sky TV, spend £5 every lunch time or spend more than £35 a week on food for two. You don't have to plough through £30 of booze every weekend and you don't need to send your kids to private school or buy them an iPhone 7 to stop getting bullied. I hear "school fees" a lot on PH. The only "school fees" my parents had to fork out for was around £25 on uniform maybe twice a year and packed lunch. A homemade sandwich some crisps and a drink rather than giving me £25 a week for lunch. You don't have to have a financed car on the drive. A single person can house share. £350 - £400pm in Dorset for somewhere nice. Two sensible people earning NMW can afford £650 pm renting. I know it's down to circumstance but if you're a low earner spending loads commuting, move closer. Car share, cycle. If it's possible, just do something about it. Also relevant to this discussion are children. They aren't an entitlement, you need to be sure that if you are bringing a life into this world you can decently provide for it. Granted it doesn't always work that way, but thinking "we want kids and I'll just bear the repercussions later" isn't the best way forward for someone earning NMW with uncontrollable debts. A low earning couple with a sensible outlook can manage.

It isn't glamorous I agree, but live within your means, you'll have a hope in hell. It is all you need to do. It's what my parents did and what we do, and genuinely, life is good. As detailed we earn not a huge amount more than NMW each, so we are living it, I'm hardly pulling all this out of thin air. The vast majority of people I have seen struggling are the ones who have lived beyond their means for so long, crippling debt is getting on top of them. It's not what they earn that's the issue, it's what they feel they're entitled to. On my wages why am I allowed thousands of pounds worth of credit, that if I were to exploit would cripple me for decades? I shouldn't be. That's the problem, it's too easy. Buy now pay think later is what sends millions of people's finances down the stter.

Putting £550 each into a joint account each month covers everything to do with living costs. We then have other bills circa £200 each. The rest of it is ours to spend or save as we wish. Out of a joint income of around £2600 take home, we're okay. We are planning ahead for kids. With childcare plus the willing assistance of childcare from parents (grandparents to be), maternity pay and other entitlements (read not grabbing every benefit going, but like the NMW using the system properly) we believe we can do it. Sacrifices will have to be made. Jetting off every year for holiday is out of the question and I might not be able to keep a second car.. I'll have to wait for an Xbox game to be in the bargain bin etc etc, but we have these expectations.

How refreshing. Good on both of you and all the best for the future.

[BoRED S2upid]

///ajd said:

sparks_E39 said:

Respectfully, I disagree. There is a hope in hell. Christ I know multiple people earning around NMW and they all get on fine. Good honest decent hard working people. Because you don't need to have Sky TV, spend £5 every lunch time or spend more than £35 a week on food for two. You don't have to plough through £30 of booze every weekend and you don't need to send your kids to private school or buy them an iPhone 7 to stop getting bullied. I hear "school fees" a lot on PH. The only "school fees" my parents had to fork out for was around £25 on uniform maybe twice a year and packed lunch. A homemade sandwich some crisps and a drink rather than giving me £25 a week for lunch. You don't have to have a financed car on the drive. A single person can house share. £350 - £400pm in Dorset for somewhere nice. Two sensible people earning NMW can afford £650 pm renting. I know it's down to circumstance but if you're a low earner spending loads commuting, move closer. Car share, cycle. If it's possible, just do something about it. Also relevant to this discussion are children. They aren't an entitlement, you need to be sure that if you are bringing a life into this world you can decently provide for it. Granted it doesn't always work that way, but thinking "we want kids and I'll just bear the repercussions later" isn't the best way forward for someone earning NMW with uncontrollable debts. A low earning couple with a sensible outlook can manage.

It isn't glamorous I agree, but live within your means, you'll have a hope in hell. It is all you need to do. It's what my parents did and what we do, and genuinely, life is good. As detailed we earn not a huge amount more than NMW each, so we are living it, I'm hardly pulling all this out of thin air. The vast majority of people I have seen struggling are the ones who have lived beyond their means for so long, crippling debt is getting on top of them. It's not what they earn that's the issue, it's what they feel they're entitled to. On my wages why am I allowed thousands of pounds worth of credit, that if I were to exploit would cripple me for decades? I shouldn't be. That's the problem, it's too easy. Buy now pay think later is what sends millions of people's finances down the stter.

Putting £550 each into a joint account each month covers everything to do with living costs. We then have other bills circa £200 each. The rest of it is ours to spend or save as we wish. Out of a joint income of around £2600 take home, we're okay. We are planning ahead for kids. With childcare plus the willing assistance of childcare from parents (grandparents to be), maternity pay and other entitlements (read not grabbing every benefit going, but like the NMW using the system properly) we believe we can do it. Sacrifices will have to be made. Jetting off every year for holiday is out of the question and I might not be able to keep a second car.. I'll have to wait for an Xbox game to be in the bargain bin etc etc, but we have these expectations.

Well said, nice to see common sense is alive and well.

Likewise E39 good post. I do hope your only car is an E39 how cool is that.

A lot of us were brought up this way my summer holidays were 2 weeks in a crappy caravan as money was tight. You can still get by now on very little I have mates bringing up kids on NMW yes it's tough they don't have big houses or new cars but they get by and are happy with their lot.

[PH XKR]

BoRED S2upid said:

PH XKR said:

I live in a cheapish town, Swindon. I give you to the end of the day to find something to rent that is suitable for a couple on nmw. If you want a bigger challenge find something for a small family on nmw.

You can widen the search area but remember that adds costs on the commute.

There are plenty of 1 bed excouncil flats to rent for £450-£500 pcm some with bills included.

So we are back to the point you cant find something with 3 bedrooms as required by law for the kids.

[sparks_E39]

BoRED S2upid said:

///ajd said:

sparks_E39 said:

Respectfully, I disagree. There is a hope in hell. Christ I know multiple people earning around NMW and they all get on fine. Good honest decent hard working people. Because you don't need to have Sky TV, spend £5 every lunch time or spend more than £35 a week on food for two. You don't have to plough through £30 of booze every weekend and you don't need to send your kids to private school or buy them an iPhone 7 to stop getting bullied. I hear "school fees" a lot on PH. The only "school fees" my parents had to fork out for was around £25 on uniform maybe twice a year and packed lunch. A homemade sandwich some crisps and a drink rather than giving me £25 a week for lunch. You don't have to have a financed car on the drive. A single person can house share. £350 - £400pm in Dorset for somewhere nice. Two sensible people earning NMW can afford £650 pm renting. I know it's down to circumstance but if you're a low earner spending loads commuting, move closer. Car share, cycle. If it's possible, just do something about it. Also relevant to this discussion are children. They aren't an entitlement, you need to be sure that if you are bringing a life into this world you can decently provide for it. Granted it doesn't always work that way, but thinking "we want kids and I'll just bear the repercussions later" isn't the best way forward for someone earning NMW with uncontrollable debts. A low earning couple with a sensible outlook can manage.

It isn't glamorous I agree, but live within your means, you'll have a hope in hell. It is all you need to do. It's what my parents did and what we do, and genuinely, life is good. As detailed we earn not a huge amount more than NMW each, so we are living it, I'm hardly pulling all this out of thin air. The vast majority of people I have seen struggling are the ones who have lived beyond their means for so long, crippling debt is getting on top of them. It's not what they earn that's the issue, it's what they feel they're entitled to. On my wages why am I allowed thousands of pounds worth of credit, that if I were to exploit would cripple me for decades? I shouldn't be. That's the problem, it's too easy. Buy now pay think later is what sends millions of people's finances down the stter.

Putting £550 each into a joint account each month covers everything to do with living costs. We then have other bills circa £200 each. The rest of it is ours to spend or save as we wish. Out of a joint income of around £2600 take home, we're okay. We are planning ahead for kids. With childcare plus the willing assistance of childcare from parents (grandparents to be), maternity pay and other entitlements (read not grabbing every benefit going, but like the NMW using the system properly) we believe we can do it. Sacrifices will have to be made. Jetting off every year for holiday is out of the question and I might not be able to keep a second car.. I'll have to wait for an Xbox game to be in the bargain bin etc etc, but we have these expectations.

Well said, nice to see common sense is alive and well.

Likewise E39 good post. I do hope your only car is an E39 how cool is that.

Thanks, of course everyone has different circumstances but I only speak from experience. Sadly I'm no longer in an E39, we have a Polo at the moment and I'm on the lookout for a sub £2k Mercedes 190e, as I fancy a reasonable to run classic.

[minimoog]

Here's the most popular anticipated/hoped for benefits of Brexit:



Looking forward to stringing up a few (hopefully) wrong 'uns and the rightful restoration of our passport colour.

For England, Lizzy, and St George!

[Camoradi]

minimoog said:

Here's the most popular anticipated/hoped for benefits of Brexit:



Looking forward to stringing up a few (hopefully) wrong 'uns and the rightful restoration of our passport colour.

For England, Lizzy, and St George!

That could be remain voters picking the idiotic options to skew the results

[tribalsurfer]

Atomic12C said:

"Not a hope in hell" ?
I disagree.
I form my opinion on numerous individuals, couples and families that I know who are on NMW.
They happen to be some of the most down to earth and realistic people I know.

Instead of renting £600 per month accommodation they are in quite decent £400 to £500 per month. (The couples obviously splitting the costs between two).
They also don't subscribe to SKY TV nor do they 'upgrade' their mobile phone contracts every year.
They don't have TVs in every room and they don't rent the newest release of euro-box car every few years.
Finally they don't live their lives in credit card debt. They manage their income and their spending and they 'get by' relatively easily. Not a well off lifestyle by any means but they don't struggle and they don't live in fantasy land by expecting to live lives of luxury.


Take your example..
£1299 - 68 - 74 (not including pension as that may be unrealistic on this income) = 1157
- £600 rent
- 80 (electric)
- 10 (water)
- 70 (gas)
- 160 (food)

= £381

£381 left for spending on commuting/saving/additionals

Not a lot I accept but the NMW is a base level of which people should be able to "get by" without borrowing or spiraling in to debt on credit interest.


What does this mean for Brexit?
If the British mentality can change from turning down NMW jobs in favour of living off the state, then Britain would not have to rely on imported labour. It would also ease the burden on the taxpayer whereby more money can go in to the likes of education and infrastructure spending.
I think it just needs people to stop saying that the NMW is not adequate (especially if you approach it and treat it with respect and with its intended purpose).

Surely if a couple, there could be 2 adults on NMW and therefore using the example above you could have rent of £1200 and a disposable income of £762.

[PH XKR]

tribalsurfer said:

Surely if a couple, there could be 2 adults on NMW and therefore using the example above you could have rent of £1200 and a disposable income of £762.

That I exactly how it works