Foreign policy and terrorism in UK - any connection?

[Alpinestars]

gadgetmac said:

I'm going to go back to my argument that nobody is listening to what the terrorists themselves are saying, backed up by most of the posts on this thread.

These 2, why did they kill Lee Rigby?

|https://thumbsnap.com/JO20TXbM[/url]

Anyone remember the live comments they made after the attack whilst waiting for the police to arrive. "Muslim children being killed abroad" etc.[url]

Asked if the attack was designed to intimidate the public, Adebolajo said: 'The truth is this, the Government and the British public have become aware of Jihad over the past years, a lot of people know the only reason it is occuring is because of foreign policy.'

Are we listening yet? Until we do it'll never end.

Many many examples of this from recent terrorism. Even the open letter penned by Osama Bin Laden points the finger at foreign policy. ISIS' own reasons include foreign policy. It's not the only reason, but to think it's not a major factor is thoroughly naive.

[s2art]

gadgetmac said:

I'm going to go back to my argument that nobody is listening to what the terrorists themselves are saying, backed up by most of the posts on this thread.

These 2, why did they kill Lee Rigby?

|https://thumbsnap.com/JO20TXbM[/url]

Anyone remember the live comments they made after the attack whilst waiting for the police to arrive. "Muslim children being killed abroad" etc.[url]

Asked if the attack was designed to intimidate the public, Adebolajo said: 'The truth is this, the Government and the British public have become aware of Jihad over the past years, a lot of people know the only reason it is occuring is because of foreign policy.'

Are we listening yet? Until we do it'll never end.

Its just an excuse, window dressing. The number of muslim children being killed by the west is as nothing to those kids being killed in muslim versus muslim conflict in the ME. So why do these guys make it special if the west (trying to help the non-jihadi muslims) cause few deaths but the muslims (particularly the jihadi ones) get a free pass?

[Alpinestars]

s2art said:

gadgetmac said:

I'm going to go back to my argument that nobody is listening to what the terrorists themselves are saying, backed up by most of the posts on this thread.

These 2, why did they kill Lee Rigby?

|https://thumbsnap.com/JO20TXbM[/url]

Anyone remember the live comments they made after the attack whilst waiting for the police to arrive. "Muslim children being killed abroad" etc.[url]

Asked if the attack was designed to intimidate the public, Adebolajo said: 'The truth is this, the Government and the British public have become aware of Jihad over the past years, a lot of people know the only reason it is occuring is because of foreign policy.'

Are we listening yet? Until we do it'll never end.

Its just an excuse, window dressing. The number of muslim children being killed by the west is as nothing to those kids being killed in muslim versus muslim conflict in the ME. So why do these guys make it special if the west (trying to help the non-jihadi muslims) cause few deaths but the muslims (particularly the jihadi ones) get a free pass?

You mean you don't like the reasons? Do you think they all collude and come up with a foreign policy mantra?

And we've just caused a few" deaths?

[Jazzy Jag]

s2art said:

Its just an excuse, window dressing. The number of muslim children being killed by the west is as nothing to those kids being killed in muslim versus muslim conflict in the ME. So why do these guys make it special if the west (trying to help the non-jihadi muslims) cause few deaths but the muslims (particularly the jihadi ones) get a free pass?

Ah! Yeah, but...
If a Muslim kills a Muslim child, it's Allah's will and the child is a martyr.

If an infidel kills a Muslim child, then unleash jihad!

Do try to keep up at the back.

[gadgetmac]

Alpinestars said:

s2art said:

gadgetmac said:

I'm going to go back to my argument that nobody is listening to what the terrorists themselves are saying, backed up by most of the posts on this thread.

These 2, why did they kill Lee Rigby?

|https://thumbsnap.com/JO20TXbM[/url]

Anyone remember the live comments they made after the attack whilst waiting for the police to arrive. "Muslim children being killed abroad" etc.[url]

Asked if the attack was designed to intimidate the public, Adebolajo said: 'The truth is this, the Government and the British public have become aware of Jihad over the past years, a lot of people know the only reason it is occuring is because of foreign policy.'

Are we listening yet? Until we do it'll never end.

Its just an excuse, window dressing. The number of muslim children being killed by the west is as nothing to those kids being killed in muslim versus muslim conflict in the ME. So why do these guys make it special if the west (trying to help the non-jihadi muslims) cause few deaths but the muslims (particularly the jihadi ones) get a free pass?

You mean you don't like the reasons? Do you think they all collude and come up with a foreign policy mantra?

And we've just caused a few" deaths?

s2art exemplifies completely the mentality that allows this to continue. He doesn't listen to the other side but then goes even further by installing his own view on why the killer(s) do what they do. It's breathtaking. It's like telling me why I really won't paint my bedroom this weekend even though I've explained it to the missus twice already. Those who don't listen don't learn.

[s2art]

gadgetmac said:

Alpinestars said:

s2art said:

gadgetmac said:

I'm going to go back to my argument that nobody is listening to what the terrorists themselves are saying, backed up by most of the posts on this thread.

These 2, why did they kill Lee Rigby?

|https://thumbsnap.com/JO20TXbM[/url]

Anyone remember the live comments they made after the attack whilst waiting for the police to arrive. "Muslim children being killed abroad" etc.[url]

Asked if the attack was designed to intimidate the public, Adebolajo said: 'The truth is this, the Government and the British public have become aware of Jihad over the past years, a lot of people know the only reason it is occuring is because of foreign policy.'

Are we listening yet? Until we do it'll never end.

Its just an excuse, window dressing. The number of muslim children being killed by the west is as nothing to those kids being killed in muslim versus muslim conflict in the ME. So why do these guys make it special if the west (trying to help the non-jihadi muslims) cause few deaths but the muslims (particularly the jihadi ones) get a free pass?

You mean you don't like the reasons? Do you think they all collude and come up with a foreign policy mantra?

And we've just caused a few" deaths?

s2art exemplifies completely the mentality that allows this to continue. He doesn't listen to the other side but then goes even further by installing his own view on why the killer(s) do what they do. It's breathtaking. It's like telling me why I really won't paint my bedroom this weekend even though I've explained it to the missus twice already. Those who don't listen don't learn.

And wrong. Try listening to what ISIS actually says on the subject. Try thinking about why countries such as Sweden, Belgium or Spain have suffered terrorist attacks (what did their foreign policy have to do with it?). Go back a few pages and read the analysis from Freedland. Conclusion is that they would attack us whatever our foreign policy is. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Deptford Draylons]

gadgetmac said:

I'm going to go back to my argument that nobody is listening to what the terrorists themselves are saying, backed up by most of the posts on this thread.

These 2, why did they kill Lee Rigby?

|https://thumbsnap.com/JO20TXbM[/url]

Anyone remember the live comments they made after the attack whilst waiting for the police to arrive. "Muslim children being killed abroad" etc.[url]

Asked if the attack was designed to intimidate the public, Adebolajo said: 'The truth is this, the Government and the British public have become aware of Jihad over the past years, a lot of people know the only reason it is occuring is because of foreign policy.'

Are we listening yet? Until we do it'll never end.

Partly true. First they have to find the religion to feel aggrieved enough to kill for it on the basis of 'killing us Muslims', but yes no doubt getting involved is a factor that increased the problem, but not the sole cause.
By your own standard though we do then have to listen to others who say they are motivated by a novel or a cartoon to do the same, and those who say foreign policy, but that they would hate the west and non Muslims anyway, as ISIS have said. I trust we aren't just looking for a selective ' its all our fault line' for easy blame games.

[gadgetmac]

s2art said:

gadgetmac said:

Alpinestars said:

s2art said:

gadgetmac said:

I'm going to go back to my argument that nobody is listening to what the terrorists themselves are saying, backed up by most of the posts on this thread.

These 2, why did they kill Lee Rigby?

|https://thumbsnap.com/JO20TXbM[/url]

Anyone remember the live comments they made after the attack whilst waiting for the police to arrive. "Muslim children being killed abroad" etc.[url]

Asked if the attack was designed to intimidate the public, Adebolajo said: 'The truth is this, the Government and the British public have become aware of Jihad over the past years, a lot of people know the only reason it is occuring is because of foreign policy.'

Are we listening yet? Until we do it'll never end.

Its just an excuse, window dressing. The number of muslim children being killed by the west is as nothing to those kids being killed in muslim versus muslim conflict in the ME. So why do these guys make it special if the west (trying to help the non-jihadi muslims) cause few deaths but the muslims (particularly the jihadi ones) get a free pass?

You mean you don't like the reasons? Do you think they all collude and come up with a foreign policy mantra?

And we've just caused a few" deaths?

s2art exemplifies completely the mentality that allows this to continue. He doesn't listen to the other side but then goes even further by installing his own view on why the killer(s) do what they do. It's breathtaking. It's like telling me why I really won't paint my bedroom this weekend even though I've explained it to the missus twice already. Those who don't listen don't learn.

And wrong. Try listening to what ISIS actually says on the subject. Try thinking about why countries such as Sweden, Belgium or Spain have suffered terrorist attacks (what did their foreign policy have to do with it?). Go back a few pages and read the analysis from Freedland. Conclusion is that they would attack us whatever our foreign policy is. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Sweden you say?

http://www.ibtimes.com/sweden-sends-troops-help-fi...

Who cares what ISIS says, thats like listening to what you say, pointless, whats important is what the actual killers themselves say.

[s2art]

gadgetmac said:

s2art said:

gadgetmac said:

Alpinestars said:

s2art said:

gadgetmac said:

I'm going to go back to my argument that nobody is listening to what the terrorists themselves are saying, backed up by most of the posts on this thread.

These 2, why did they kill Lee Rigby?

|https://thumbsnap.com/JO20TXbM[/url]

Anyone remember the live comments they made after the attack whilst waiting for the police to arrive. "Muslim children being killed abroad" etc.[url]

Asked if the attack was designed to intimidate the public, Adebolajo said: 'The truth is this, the Government and the British public have become aware of Jihad over the past years, a lot of people know the only reason it is occuring is because of foreign policy.'

Are we listening yet? Until we do it'll never end.

Its just an excuse, window dressing. The number of muslim children being killed by the west is as nothing to those kids being killed in muslim versus muslim conflict in the ME. So why do these guys make it special if the west (trying to help the non-jihadi muslims) cause few deaths but the muslims (particularly the jihadi ones) get a free pass?

You mean you don't like the reasons? Do you think they all collude and come up with a foreign policy mantra?

And we've just caused a few" deaths?

s2art exemplifies completely the mentality that allows this to continue. He doesn't listen to the other side but then goes even further by installing his own view on why the killer(s) do what they do. It's breathtaking. It's like telling me why I really won't paint my bedroom this weekend even though I've explained it to the missus twice already. Those who don't listen don't learn.

And wrong. Try listening to what ISIS actually says on the subject. Try thinking about why countries such as Sweden, Belgium or Spain have suffered terrorist attacks (what did their foreign policy have to do with it?). Go back a few pages and read the analysis from Freedland. Conclusion is that they would attack us whatever our foreign policy is. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Sweden you say?

http://www.ibtimes.com/sweden-sends-troops-help-fi...

Who cares what ISIS says, thats like listening to what you say, pointless, whats important is what the actual killers themselves say.

Why? They will rationalise their actions and simply use whatever excuse comes to mind. The underlying reason is the jihadi mindset promulgated by ISIS (and other groups). When Germany opened its doors to god knows how many muslims escaping from the st hole in the middle east, what happened? Yep, someone drove a truck into people in Berlin. What was it about German policy that prompted that? For that matter what was it about their foreign policy that got a load of coptic christians massacred? Wake up.

[Alpinestars]

s2art said:

gadgetmac said:

Alpinestars said:

s2art said:

gadgetmac said:

I'm going to go back to my argument that nobody is listening to what the terrorists themselves are saying, backed up by most of the posts on this thread.

These 2, why did they kill Lee Rigby?

|https://thumbsnap.com/JO20TXbM[/url]

Anyone remember the live comments they made after the attack whilst waiting for the police to arrive. "Muslim children being killed abroad" etc.[url]

Asked if the attack was designed to intimidate the public, Adebolajo said: 'The truth is this, the Government and the British public have become aware of Jihad over the past years, a lot of people know the only reason it is occuring is because of foreign policy.'

Are we listening yet? Until we do it'll never end.

Its just an excuse, window dressing. The number of muslim children being killed by the west is as nothing to those kids being killed in muslim versus muslim conflict in the ME. So why do these guys make it special if the west (trying to help the non-jihadi muslims) cause few deaths but the muslims (particularly the jihadi ones) get a free pass?

You mean you don't like the reasons? Do you think they all collude and come up with a foreign policy mantra?

And we've just caused a few" deaths?

s2art exemplifies completely the mentality that allows this to continue. He doesn't listen to the other side but then goes even further by installing his own view on why the killer(s) do what they do. It's breathtaking. It's like telling me why I really won't paint my bedroom this weekend even though I've explained it to the missus twice already. Those who don't listen don't learn.

And wrong. Try listening to what ISIS actually says on the subject. Try thinking about why countries such as Sweden, Belgium or Spain have suffered terrorist attacks (what did their foreign policy have to do with it?). Go back a few pages and read the analysis from Freedland. Conclusion is that they would attack us whatever our foreign policy is. Wake up and smell the coffee.

The terrorists themselves are telling us why they commit the acts. Are you denying that? It doesn't matter what ISIS state as their reasons, they don't own the people. The people decide their own reasons for atrocities and it's pretty darn clear, there's a huge link to foreign policy. If you have evidence to the contrary, feel free to share it.

ISIS itself states 2 main themes. Foreign policy, and religious difference.

You cannot have a debate about the reasons for terrorism without accepting it has something to do to with foreign policy and religion.

[gadgetmac]

When one of these terrorists stands in front of a queue of people and detonates a bomb and we find a note from him saying he did it to further the cause of Islamic rule in the UK or elsewhere then yes, thats exactly why he did it.

Usually, they don't say that.

They describe a grievance they have.

I'm not saying that grievance is right or wrong I'm saying we aint listening.

[Deptford Draylons]

So when they say they are 'a soldier of allah', I guess this is the point where we stop listening to them and taking their words as literal, but call the mental health unit of the local NHS ? Lets not all start a British national sport of excuse providing for terrorists.

[gadgetmac]

6 x Manchester.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/25/us-m...

You think that isn't more than enough reason to radicalise any of these victims relatives? Or even fellow muslims?

This isnt excuse making it's listening to what the grievence they talk about actually is.

The bombs aint working, quick, throw more bombs.

[Alpinestars]

gadgetmac said:

6 x Manchester.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/25/us-m...

You think that isn't more than enough reason to radicalise any of these victims relatives? Or even fellow muslims?

This isnt excuse making it's listening to what the grievence they talk about actually is.

The bombs aint working, quick, throw more bombs.

Don't worry. It's only a few foreigners.

[gadgetmac]

Alpinestars said:

gadgetmac said:

6 x Manchester.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/25/us-m...

You think that isn't more than enough reason to radicalise any of these victims relatives? Or even fellow muslims?

This isnt excuse making it's listening to what the grievence they talk about actually is.

The bombs aint working, quick, throw more bombs.

Don't worry. It's only a few foreigners.

Yep, and ours are the only considerations we should have too.

[Countdown]

Jazzy Jag said:

Ah! Yeah, but...
If a Muslim kills a Muslim child, it's Allah's will and the child is a martyr.

If an infidel kills a Muslim child, then unleash jihad!

Do try to keep up at the back.

There are plenty of muslims fighting ISIS and AQ. We (the West) are selling weapons to countries who support ISIS and AQ.

There needs to be a point where we need to have a stop and think.

[Jazzy Jag]

Countdown said:

There needs to be a point where we need to have a stop and think.

That much, we can agree on.

[s2art]

gadgetmac said:

When one of these terrorists stands in front of a queue of people and detonates a bomb and we find a note from him saying he did it to further the cause of Islamic rule in the UK or elsewhere then yes, thats exactly why he did it.

Usually, they don't say that.

They describe a grievance they have.

I'm not saying that grievance is right or wrong I'm saying we aint listening.

And I am saying the reasons given (by some) are merely window dressing. Who the hell finds that he disagrees with foreign policy then decides to blow himself up and wants to take a load of young women with him as a protest? It requires much deeper motivation to do that then a simple disapproval, or even extreme distaste, of foreign policy actions. Just listen to what ISIS (and other jihadi groups) actually say about why they act.

[gadgetmac]

s2art said:

And I am saying the reasons given (by some) are merely window dressing

They are most certainly not window dressing. That is you overlaying your own prejudices and preconceptions onto the situation. If you think that he's still playing mind games when he's about seperate his own head from his shoulders then you are a fool. He's probably being more honest in those seconds than he's ever been in his life.

ISIS are irrelevent at that point in time, they will use him for their own ends in the days following, but only what the terrorist believes matters and he tells you what that is and what he's dying for. I've no doubt the terrorist would like to see a world of only Muslims just like ISIS but thats not usually the motivation to kill little girls in a manchester concert. At that point their motivations are harder and more vengeful. Show me attacks carried out here where the motivations were other than that.

[Alpinestars]

s2art said:

gadgetmac said:

When one of these terrorists stands in front of a queue of people and detonates a bomb and we find a note from him saying he did it to further the cause of Islamic rule in the UK or elsewhere then yes, thats exactly why he did it.

Usually, they don't say that.

They describe a grievance they have.

I'm not saying that grievance is right or wrong I'm saying we aint listening.

And I am saying the reasons given (by some) are merely window dressing. Who the hell finds that he disagrees with foreign policy then decides to blow himself up and wants to take a load of young women with him as a protest? It requires much deeper motivation to do that then a simple disapproval, or even extreme distaste, of foreign policy actions. Just listen to what ISIS (and other jihadi groups) actually say about why they act.

How many more attacks on UK soil before you get angry enough to take action?