The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread
Discussion
Matt Harper said:
Trevatanus said:
So what happened to all the people that carry weapons to defend themselves.
Surely someone could have pulled one of their guns out and stopped him?
Because that's why they all carry weapons right?
It is illegal to carry a firearm in a bar/drinking establishment.Surely someone could have pulled one of their guns out and stopped him?
Because that's why they all carry weapons right?
duh! well there's your problem clearly! Get rid of that silly law and everyone can make sure they are armed all the time so they can intervene and
- trumplogic
Trevatanus said:
So what happened to all the people that carry weapons to defend themselves.
Surely someone could have pulled one of their guns out and stopped him?
Because that's why they all carry weapons right?
Unfortunately, there's very little that can be done in an armed shooter scenario and is a ridiculous argument to suggest that arming people will stop this from happening. We saw that in the Dallas shooting a couple of years ago where several armed police were killed. It took a good guy with a bomb disposal robot strapped to the teeth with explosives to stop a bad guy with a gun right there.Surely someone could have pulled one of their guns out and stopped him?
Because that's why they all carry weapons right?
With that said, I grew up in London and moved to the US when I was 27. i've been here 18 years and I feel much safer in Dallas than I ever did in London. I'm sure that there's no shortage of nut cases in DFW but it's amazing how the idea that anyone could have a concealed weapon has on those personalities.
rscott said:
Noodle1982 said:
s1962a said:
What a sad loss of life 
Since there is no 20 page thread on PH about it, I presume it's not Islamist terrorism related?
Don't count your chickens...Since there is no 20 page thread on PH about it, I presume it's not Islamist terrorism related?
alabbasi said:
Trevatanus said:
So what happened to all the people that carry weapons to defend themselves.
Surely someone could have pulled one of their guns out and stopped him?
Because that's why they all carry weapons right?
Unfortunately, there's very little that can be done in an armed shooter scenario and is a ridiculous argument to suggest that arming people will stop this from happening. We saw that in the Dallas shooting a couple of years ago where several armed police were killed. It took a good guy with a bomb disposal robot strapped to the teeth with explosives to stop a bad guy with a gun right there.Surely someone could have pulled one of their guns out and stopped him?
Because that's why they all carry weapons right?
With that said, I grew up in London and moved to the US when I was 27. i've been here 18 years and I feel much safer in Dallas than I ever did in London. I'm sure that there's no shortage of nut cases in DFW but it's amazing how the idea that anyone could have a concealed weapon has on those personalities.
Randy Winkman said:
Do you think your change in lifestyle, as you've got older has affected that?
No, this was something that I noticed immediately upon moving and even before as my work took my here often (company move). I would think it would more apparent as one gets older as older people tend be easier victims in the UK compared to the US which gives people the right to arm themselves.Certainly shootings are more common in DFW vs London. Stabbings, ABH , GBH, home invasions etc are practically unheard off. In simple terms, everybody is aware that they or the other guy may be armed. IMO, I believe that this has a calming influence because very few people want the legal liability of shooting somebody or want to get shot themselves.
Edited by alabbasi on Thursday 8th November 20:53
alabbasi said:
Randy Winkman said:
Do you think your change in lifestyle, as you've got older has affected that?
No, this was something that I noticed immediately upon moving and even before as my work took my here often (company move). I would think it would more apparent as one gets older as older people tend be easier victims in the UK compared to the US which gives people the right to arm themselves.Certainly shootings are more common in DFW vs London. Stabbings, ABH , GBH, home invasions etc are practically unheard off. In simple terms, everybody is aware that they or the other guy may be armed. IMO, I believe that this has a calming influence because very few people want the legal liability of shooting somebody or want to get shot themselves.
Edited by alabbasi on Thursday 8th November 20:53
https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-...
And oddly enough the two times I’ve been burgled were when I was in the US.
After spending twenty years living in other countries and being ex-military, my personal belief is guns do not reduce crime, they just make it considerably more violent. I mean if guns did help with crime, there would be no crime or it would be very low in the US right given there are more guns in the US than people.
I see they are saying that the perp having PTSD from afghan is a factor in this shooting.
I watched a programme about WW1 last night, and marvelled at the old fellas that had served in the trenches for 4 years, under constant threat of death, seeing their chums vaporised around them. I really can’t work out how they didn’t all turn into psychotic murderers. Yet they were all remarkable stoic proud men that remembered their fallen friends with tears in their eyes. All passed away now.
PTSD. Perhaps we are all too eager to pass a diagnosis that somehow gives reason for these killings? I thunk this guy was just a loser. Typical angry man blaming other people for being a waste of skin. Lashing out because he can’t make something of himself.
I watched a programme about WW1 last night, and marvelled at the old fellas that had served in the trenches for 4 years, under constant threat of death, seeing their chums vaporised around them. I really can’t work out how they didn’t all turn into psychotic murderers. Yet they were all remarkable stoic proud men that remembered their fallen friends with tears in their eyes. All passed away now.
PTSD. Perhaps we are all too eager to pass a diagnosis that somehow gives reason for these killings? I thunk this guy was just a loser. Typical angry man blaming other people for being a waste of skin. Lashing out because he can’t make something of himself.
scenario8 said:
Well hang on, you seem quite keen to diagnose the chap from a position of never having met him, studied his mental health or history and, I suspect, with no academic or medical qualifications to diagnose his mental health in any case.
Or am I horribly mistaken?
Millions of people have had PTSD over the last 100 years, didn’t turn them into mass murderers. Or am I horribly mistaken?
The diagnosis is coming from the US authorities.
TTmonkey said:
I see they are saying that the perp having PTSD from afghan is a factor in this shooting.
I watched a programme about WW1 last night, and marvelled at the old fellas that had served in the trenches for 4 years, under constant threat of death, seeing their chums vaporised around them. I really can’t work out how they didn’t all turn into psychotic murderers. Yet they were all remarkable stoic proud men that remembered their fallen friends with tears in their eyes. All passed away now.
PTSD. Perhaps we are all too eager to pass a diagnosis that somehow gives reason for these killings? I thunk this guy was just a loser. Typical angry man blaming other people for being a waste of skin. Lashing out because he can’t make something of himself.
There wasn't that understanding at the time though, and help with mental health was virtually non-existent. So they likely just had to put up with their demons which doubtless remained with many for the rest of their days. During the war itself you could have also ended up being shot for cowardice, so that stoicism was very much required. Not too long I read a book about Waterloo, and it's obvious that many veterans suffered from it, but it was all just put down to strange dreams or eccentric behaviour.I watched a programme about WW1 last night, and marvelled at the old fellas that had served in the trenches for 4 years, under constant threat of death, seeing their chums vaporised around them. I really can’t work out how they didn’t all turn into psychotic murderers. Yet they were all remarkable stoic proud men that remembered their fallen friends with tears in their eyes. All passed away now.
PTSD. Perhaps we are all too eager to pass a diagnosis that somehow gives reason for these killings? I thunk this guy was just a loser. Typical angry man blaming other people for being a waste of skin. Lashing out because he can’t make something of himself.
TTmonkey said:
scenario8 said:
Well hang on, you seem quite keen to diagnose the chap from a position of never having met him, studied his mental health or history and, I suspect, with no academic or medical qualifications to diagnose his mental health in any case.
Or am I horribly mistaken?
Millions of people have had PTSD over the last 100 years, didn’t turn them into mass murderers. Or am I horribly mistaken?
The diagnosis is coming from the US authorities.
Scobblelotcher said:
I appreciate how you feel but the stats point to the opposite being true.
https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-...
Unfortunately, they don't. The stats you point to (UK vs US) are somewhat skewed as they don't reflect London vs DFW (or NY for that matter). If you take a look at the stats for those two cities. You'll see that aside from murder. Violent crime in London is close to double what we see in Dallas for everything else (rape, robbery assault). Furthermore, the crime in Dallas is isolated to certain parts of town where there's a lot of gang activity. The rest of the city is generally much safer.https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-...
The most important point that people miss about Americans, they're much less willing to accept being a statistic. Whereas police in the UK tell people to call the police if they witness a crime, the police here tell people that they can't be everywhere at all times and that it's up to the individual to protect themselves. It's a huge cultural difference between the two counties.
Edited by alabbasi on Thursday 8th November 23:54
alabbasi said:
With that said, I grew up in London and moved to the US when I was 27. i've been here 18 years and I feel much safer in Dallas than I ever did in London. I'm sure that there's no shortage of nut cases in DFW but it's amazing how the idea that anyone could have a concealed weapon has on those personalities.
I know what you mean Alabbasi. I moved from suburbs of Paris where we had been burgled multiple times to a very cop full area of south Miami. We left our house with twin alarm systems, 5 point locks, etc, to move into a rental with a Mickey Mouse lock, very limited security. I feel much safer here relative to nuisance crime, but have to accept that the statistics show that the risk of a member of my family dying due to a bullet is at least 1000, if not a factor of 10 more, higher than when I was in Europe.
It’s actually quite bizarre, feeling safer yet knowing that for the really serious s
t you’re much more exposed.Max_Torque said:
Matt Harper said:
Trevatanus said:
So what happened to all the people that carry weapons to defend themselves.
Surely someone could have pulled one of their guns out and stopped him?
Because that's why they all carry weapons right?
It is illegal to carry a firearm in a bar/drinking establishment.Surely someone could have pulled one of their guns out and stopped him?
Because that's why they all carry weapons right?
duh! well there's your problem clearly! Get rid of that silly law and everyone can make sure they are armed all the time so they can intervene and
- trumplogic
alabbasi said:
Scobblelotcher said:
I appreciate how you feel but the stats point to the opposite being true.
https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-...
Actually it's not. The stats you point to (UK vs US) are somewhat skewed when we're talking about London vs DFW (or NY for that matter). If you take a look at the stats for those two cities. You'll see that aside from murder. Violent crime in London is close to double what we see in Dallas for everything else (rape, robbery assault). Furthermore, the crime in Dallas is isolated to certain parts of town where there's a lot of gang activity. The rest of the city is generally much safer.https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-...
The most important point that people miss about Americans, they're much less willing to accept being a statistic. Whereas police in the UK tell people to call the police if they witness a crime, the police here tell people that they can't be everywhere at all times and that it's up to the individual to protect themselves. It's a huge cultural difference between the two counties.
As for saying crime is contained to specific parts of the city, well that’s any city.
The only clear stat and arguably the most important is murder and it’s a stat that demonstrates London is in that context safer than any major American city, which shouldn’t be a surprise given guns are banned here.
As an example, murder rate between the two cities you mention is as follows (per 100k pop)
Dallas - 10.4
New York - 3.4
London - 1.8
Article discussing it here: https://www.statista.com/chart/13767/london-homici...
Scobblelotcher said:
Can you decipher the other stats since they are reported entirely different?
Yep, no problem.Dallas
Murder 10.4
Rape 60.1
Robbery 320.8
aggravated assault 302.8
London
Murder Rate 1.2
Rape 120
Robbery 430
ABH and GBH 700
So yep, if somebody gets shot, they'll probably die from their wounds hence the high murder rate but rape, robbery and assault and considerably lower. Probably for the same reason.
Scobblelotcher said:
As for saying crime is contained to specific parts of the city, well that’s any
It's hard to explain because it's so different but i'll try., The people that would likely mug or assault you in any city usually live nearby and have a high degree of confidence that they will get away with it because they know their landscape etc. The problem with London is that you can own a million pound house and still have a council estate around the corner, with all of its problems.Annual property taxes in Texas are around 3% of the value of the house and we don't really do welfare here. So if the houses in your area cost $400k on average, you're paying $12,000/year in property taxes. Cities like the tax revenue so they plan these neighborhoods with valuations in mind in order to collect the taxes. That's the city's focus, that's the police focus as the property taxes fund the police.
We have violent crime, sure but it's rare by comparison. It kind of stays in those areas which I'll never go to and I don't recall ever seeing it here.
I did on my last visit to London which was last September. Sitting in a wine bar in Ealing, regular as clockwork.
YankeePorker said:
I feel much safer here relative to nuisance crime, but have to accept that the statistics show that the risk of a member of my family dying due to a bullet is at least 1000, if not a factor of 10 more, higher than when I was in Europe.
I understand what you mean and agree. There's no question shootings that are fatal and instantaneous. I'm not suggesting that the current laws are adequate, especially in light of the topic of this thread. I'm merely making an observation about the cultural differences and the less obvious results. I love love love Miami. I'd move there tomorrow if i didn't have a building full of cars to also move, I feel that it's considerably more dangerous than DFW. The crooks just seem more brazen.Edited by alabbasi on Friday 9th November 02:04
Have to say I agree, not saying it's right but we live maybe 10-15 miles from Newark/Elizabeth which are pretty much daily on the news for gun/gang/drug related crime stuff. It's very, very rare that spills over to where we live. The amount of Police presence where we are, which is an affluent/middle class area is incredibly high. There was a recent spate of break ins with cars (with people who leave them unlocked I might add!) as a result of which, I've counted at least three cars the Police park and move randomly but sit empty during the day/night just so there's a visible presence. If you call the emergency services, they're at your door literally in a couple of minutes which is massively reassuring.
That said I absolutely detest the gun culture thing with the vast majority of people here.
That said I absolutely detest the gun culture thing with the vast majority of people here.
alabbasi said:
Scobblelotcher said:
Can you decipher the other stats since they are reported entirely different?
Yep, no problem.Dallas
Murder 10.4
Rape 60.1
Robbery 320.8
aggravated assault 302.8
London
Murder Rate 1.2
Rape 120
Robbery 430
ABH and GBH 700
So yep, if somebody gets shot, they'll probably die from their wounds hence the high murder rate but rape, robbery and assault and considerably lower. Probably for the same reason.
Scobblelotcher said:
As for saying crime is contained to specific parts of the city, well that’s any
It's hard to explain because it's so different but i'll try., The people that would likely mug or assault you in any city usually live nearby and have a high degree of confidence that they will get away with it because they know their landscape etc. The problem with London is that you can own a million pound house and still have a council estate around the corner, with all of its problems.Annual property taxes in Texas are around 3% of the value of the house and we don't really do welfare here. So if the houses in your area cost $400k on average, you're paying $12,000/year in property taxes. Cities like the tax revenue so they plan these neighborhoods with valuations in mind in order to collect the taxes. That's the city's focus, that's the police focus as the property taxes fund the police.
We have violent crime, sure but it's rare by comparison. It kind of stays in those areas which I'll never go to and I don't recall ever seeing it here.
I did on my last visit to London which was last September. Sitting in a wine bar in Ealing, regular as clockwork.
YankeePorker said:
I feel much safer here relative to nuisance crime, but have to accept that the statistics show that the risk of a member of my family dying due to a bullet is at least 1000, if not a factor of 10 more, higher than when I was in Europe.
I understand what you mean and agree. There's no question shootings that are fatal and instantaneous. I'm not suggesting that the current laws are adequate, especially in light of the topic of this thread. I'm merely making an observation about the cultural differences and the less obvious results. I love love love Miami. I'd move there tomorrow if i didn't have a building full of cars to also move, I feel that it's considerably more dangerous than DFW. The crooks just seem more brazen.Edited by alabbasi on Friday 9th November 02:04
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