Macron and Calais
Discussion
Randy Winkman said:
An issue they share with most countries in the world; they don't have our "island mentality". Why should they?
You'd have to accept though that the UK is entitled to the "island mentality" due to its geography. We are privileged in respect of this issue, but of course hindered in respects to others (such as having to board a ferry/plane/tunnel to travel/visit/trade in the EU). Similarly France is privileged or hindered in those same issues.France should accept that if the fringe EU members are not protecting the EU border, then France has the choice to protect its own border (or not).
If they've chosen not to protect its own border, then what they have done is accept new residents.
What they can not do is accept those residents on behalf of the UK and its citizens.
Oakey said:
Randy Winkman said:
Exactly - the issue is about people getting out of their country, same as if they were going to Belgium or Germany. Is a person that France doesn't want and who's trying the get out, Frances problem?
Maybe they shouldn't have let them in to begin with? I'm pretty sure I can't just rock up at JFK airport and say "I wanted to get out of the UK, I'm going to live here now". I suspect they'd turn me straight back around and send me right back where I came from?I see we paid a massive amount of money for that wall on the motorway and its made no difference what so ever, so we should just waste more money in Calais then? Its all of Europes problem imo.
Hey economic migrants the uk does not want you , but wtf do they care there coming like it or not. lovely people.
Amateurish said:
Genuine question, if France pulls out of the Treaty which allows UK border officials to operate on French soil, what then?
Gun boats.If that did happen and the border was moved the UK would physically have to stop migrants making land or accept them in a holding area,process them and deport them back to where they came from.Without passport or papers that becomes very difficult.
Gun boats would be the most entertaining but I think the international community would have something to say about it.
Amateurish said:
Genuine question, if France pulls out of the Treaty which allows UK border officials to operate on French soil, what then?
I dare say they'd move border checks on to the boats themselves. Plausable?A 'mobile' or semi-fixed point on each boarding door or vehicle ramp, whereby they would be denied boarding.
The technology should be there to achieve that.
Atomic12C said:
Randy Winkman said:
An issue they share with most countries in the world; they don't have our "island mentality". Why should they?
You'd have to accept though that the UK is entitled to the "island mentality" due to its geography. We are privileged in respect of this issue, but of course hindered in respects to others (such as having to board a ferry/plane/tunnel to travel/visit/trade in the EU). Similarly France is privileged or hindered in those same issues.France should accept that if the fringe EU members are not protecting the EU border, then France has the choice to protect its own border (or not).
If they've chosen not to protect its own border, then what they have done is accept new residents.
What they can not do is accept those residents on behalf of the UK and its citizens.
Shay HTFC said:
At what point do the French say 'sod it, we can't be bothered to pay to look after refugees who want to go to England', and then tell UK government to get off of French soil, move the border checks back to Dover and let any Tom, Dick or Harry pay to take the ferry and be dealt with in Dover?
I believe that the law requires the company providing the travel ability (ie, the ferry company, train company, airline etc) is required to ensure that those embarking on their journey are entitled to do so, otherwise it's the travel providers responsibility to repatriate them from whence they came - in this case France. So if the French were to allow any Tom Dick or Harry to take the ferry to the UK, then the ferry company would be responsible for taking them back to France - or alternatively they would probably do what, for example most airlines do when you check in and again before you board your plane - that is, check your passport themselves and satisfy themselves that you have a passport and valid visa.
Shay HTFC said:
At what point do the French say 'sod it, we can't be bothered to pay to look after refugees who want to go to England', and then tell UK government to get off of French soil, move the border checks back to Dover and let any Tom, Dick or Harry pay to take the ferry and be dealt with in Dover?
Why would it be any different to any airport.......wrong / no papers = no travel?eta as already stated ^^^^^^
andymadmak said:
Shay HTFC said:
At what point do the French say 'sod it, we can't be bothered to pay to look after refugees who want to go to England', and then tell UK government to get off of French soil, move the border checks back to Dover and let any Tom, Dick or Harry pay to take the ferry and be dealt with in Dover?
I believe that the law requires the company providing the travel ability (ie, the ferry company, train company, airline etc) is required to ensure that those embarking on their journey are entitled to do so, otherwise it's the travel providers responsibility to repatriate them from whence they came - in this case France. So if the French were to allow any Tom Dick or Harry to take the ferry to the UK, then the ferry company would be responsible for taking them back to France - or alternatively they would probably do what, for example most airlines do when you check in and again before you board your plane - that is, check your passport themselves and satisfy themselves that you have a passport and valid visa.
IroningMan said:
andymadmak said:
Shay HTFC said:
At what point do the French say 'sod it, we can't be bothered to pay to look after refugees who want to go to England', and then tell UK government to get off of French soil, move the border checks back to Dover and let any Tom, Dick or Harry pay to take the ferry and be dealt with in Dover?
I believe that the law requires the company providing the travel ability (ie, the ferry company, train company, airline etc) is required to ensure that those embarking on their journey are entitled to do so, otherwise it's the travel providers responsibility to repatriate them from whence they came - in this case France. So if the French were to allow any Tom Dick or Harry to take the ferry to the UK, then the ferry company would be responsible for taking them back to France - or alternatively they would probably do what, for example most airlines do when you check in and again before you board your plane - that is, check your passport themselves and satisfy themselves that you have a passport and valid visa.
Ghibli said:
Amateurish said:
Genuine question, if France pulls out of the Treaty which allows UK border officials to operate on French soil, what then?
I would imagine the French will be putting those foreigners back on the Ferry and sending them back to the uk where they came from Next
TooMany2cvs said:
Murph7355 said:
I'm obviously a little partisan, but how about Macron does something about his other borders so that people don't get the opportunity to congregate in Calais?
Clue: SchengenFrance doesn't have any land borders to do anything about.
TooMany2cvs said:
Clue: Schengen
France doesn't have any land borders to do anything about.
France very much still has land borders. As a result of Schengen it is delegating its responsibilities to the outer boundary nations of the Schengen zone. France doesn't have any land borders to do anything about.
That is not the UK's issue. We used our opt out for Schengen, so why should we be picking up any of the tab for the Calais issue? It very much seems a case of despite us having an opt out, we still pick up the tab. A good result of being members, no?
We are geographically very fortunate. France and the Schengen countries should be dealing with it. We know they are incapable, but that is not our issue.
If France don't like what is happening in Calais, they should be reconsidering their Schengen membership, or getting the outer border states to sort it (good luck with that while Merkel is in charge).
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