Macron and Calais

Author
Discussion

Randy Winkman

16,013 posts

188 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Atomic12C said:
This is not the problem of the UK government or its citizens, more an issue of geography that France must accept.
An issue they share with most countries in the world; they don't have our "island mentality". Why should they?

Eddie Strohacker

3,879 posts

85 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Jockman said:
Don’t upset him Mutph. We may lose the tapestry!!!
I like that Macron is trolling us with the loan of the Bayeux tapestry & it's flying over so many heads in the most delightful way.

Atomic12C

5,180 posts

216 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
An issue they share with most countries in the world; they don't have our "island mentality". Why should they?
You'd have to accept though that the UK is entitled to the "island mentality" due to its geography. We are privileged in respect of this issue, but of course hindered in respects to others (such as having to board a ferry/plane/tunnel to travel/visit/trade in the EU). Similarly France is privileged or hindered in those same issues.

France should accept that if the fringe EU members are not protecting the EU border, then France has the choice to protect its own border (or not).
If they've chosen not to protect its own border, then what they have done is accept new residents.

What they can not do is accept those residents on behalf of the UK and its citizens.


cayman-black

12,624 posts

215 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Oakey said:
Randy Winkman said:
Exactly - the issue is about people getting out of their country, same as if they were going to Belgium or Germany. Is a person that France doesn't want and who's trying the get out, Frances problem?
Maybe they shouldn't have let them in to begin with? I'm pretty sure I can't just rock up at JFK airport and say "I wanted to get out of the UK, I'm going to live here now". I suspect they'd turn me straight back around and send me right back where I came from?
Exactly, if they are in France surely they should sort them out and send them back if they have been refused to stay.
I see we paid a massive amount of money for that wall on the motorway and its made no difference what so ever, so we should just waste more money in Calais then? Its all of Europes problem imo.
Hey economic migrants the uk does not want you , but wtf do they care there coming like it or not. lovely people.

Amateurish

7,696 posts

221 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Genuine question, if France pulls out of the Treaty which allows UK border officials to operate on French soil, what then?

Eddie Strohacker

3,879 posts

85 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Amateurish said:
Genuine question, if France pulls out of the Treaty which allows UK border officials to operate on French soil, what then?
They won't do that.

smifffymoto

4,527 posts

204 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Amateurish said:
Genuine question, if France pulls out of the Treaty which allows UK border officials to operate on French soil, what then?
Gun boats.

If that did happen and the border was moved the UK would physically have to stop migrants making land or accept them in a holding area,process them and deport them back to where they came from.Without passport or papers that becomes very difficult.

Gun boats would be the most entertaining but I think the international community would have something to say about it.

Atomic12C

5,180 posts

216 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Amateurish said:
Genuine question, if France pulls out of the Treaty which allows UK border officials to operate on French soil, what then?
I dare say they'd move border checks on to the boats themselves. Plausable?

A 'mobile' or semi-fixed point on each boarding door or vehicle ramp, whereby they would be denied boarding.

The technology should be there to achieve that.


Amateurish

7,696 posts

221 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Don't forget current UK border controls also take place at Paris, Lille, Brussels and Eurotunnel at Calais. Maybe also Marne La Vallee and Amsterdam shortly.

mx5nut

5,404 posts

81 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Amateurish said:
Genuine question, if France pulls out of the Treaty which allows UK border officials to operate on French soil, what then?
Like many things, we wouldn't realise how good we had it until we didn't anymore.

Shay HTFC

3,585 posts

188 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Atomic12C said:
Randy Winkman said:
An issue they share with most countries in the world; they don't have our "island mentality". Why should they?
You'd have to accept though that the UK is entitled to the "island mentality" due to its geography. We are privileged in respect of this issue, but of course hindered in respects to others (such as having to board a ferry/plane/tunnel to travel/visit/trade in the EU). Similarly France is privileged or hindered in those same issues.

France should accept that if the fringe EU members are not protecting the EU border, then France has the choice to protect its own border (or not).
If they've chosen not to protect its own border, then what they have done is accept new residents.

What they can not do is accept those residents on behalf of the UK and its citizens.
At what point do the French say 'sod it, we can't be bothered to pay to look after refugees who want to go to England', and then tell UK government to get off of French soil, move the border checks back to Dover and let any Tom, Dick or Harry pay to take the ferry and be dealt with in Dover?

andymadmak

14,482 posts

269 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Shay HTFC said:
At what point do the French say 'sod it, we can't be bothered to pay to look after refugees who want to go to England', and then tell UK government to get off of French soil, move the border checks back to Dover and let any Tom, Dick or Harry pay to take the ferry and be dealt with in Dover?
I believe that the law requires the company providing the travel ability (ie, the ferry company, train company, airline etc) is required to ensure that those embarking on their journey are entitled to do so, otherwise it's the travel providers responsibility to repatriate them from whence they came - in this case France.
So if the French were to allow any Tom Dick or Harry to take the ferry to the UK, then the ferry company would be responsible for taking them back to France - or alternatively they would probably do what, for example most airlines do when you check in and again before you board your plane - that is, check your passport themselves and satisfy themselves that you have a passport and valid visa.

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Shay HTFC said:
At what point do the French say 'sod it, we can't be bothered to pay to look after refugees who want to go to England', and then tell UK government to get off of French soil, move the border checks back to Dover and let any Tom, Dick or Harry pay to take the ferry and be dealt with in Dover?
Why would it be any different to any airport.......wrong / no papers = no travel?

eta as already stated ^^^^^^

IroningMan

10,154 posts

245 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
andymadmak said:
Shay HTFC said:
At what point do the French say 'sod it, we can't be bothered to pay to look after refugees who want to go to England', and then tell UK government to get off of French soil, move the border checks back to Dover and let any Tom, Dick or Harry pay to take the ferry and be dealt with in Dover?
I believe that the law requires the company providing the travel ability (ie, the ferry company, train company, airline etc) is required to ensure that those embarking on their journey are entitled to do so, otherwise it's the travel providers responsibility to repatriate them from whence they came - in this case France.
So if the French were to allow any Tom Dick or Harry to take the ferry to the UK, then the ferry company would be responsible for taking them back to France - or alternatively they would probably do what, for example most airlines do when you check in and again before you board your plane - that is, check your passport themselves and satisfy themselves that you have a passport and valid visa.
Hang on, so you mean that we and the French government have been wasting money and effort all this time? We could just have left it all in the hands of the ferry companies?

JagLover

42,263 posts

234 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
IroningMan said:
andymadmak said:
Shay HTFC said:
At what point do the French say 'sod it, we can't be bothered to pay to look after refugees who want to go to England', and then tell UK government to get off of French soil, move the border checks back to Dover and let any Tom, Dick or Harry pay to take the ferry and be dealt with in Dover?
I believe that the law requires the company providing the travel ability (ie, the ferry company, train company, airline etc) is required to ensure that those embarking on their journey are entitled to do so, otherwise it's the travel providers responsibility to repatriate them from whence they came - in this case France.
So if the French were to allow any Tom Dick or Harry to take the ferry to the UK, then the ferry company would be responsible for taking them back to France - or alternatively they would probably do what, for example most airlines do when you check in and again before you board your plane - that is, check your passport themselves and satisfy themselves that you have a passport and valid visa.
Hang on, so you mean that we and the French government have been wasting money and effort all this time? We could just have left it all in the hands of the ferry companies?
There are not just passenger involved but lorries as well. Far easier to have a physical barrier separating them from migrants trying to stow away then slowly check each lorry as it boards.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
I'm obviously a little partisan, but how about Macron does something about his other borders so that people don't get the opportunity to congregate in Calais?
Clue: Schengen

France doesn't have any land borders to do anything about.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Amateurish said:
Genuine question, if France pulls out of the Treaty which allows UK border officials to operate on French soil, what then?
I would imagine the French will be putting those foreigners back on the Ferry and sending them back to the uk where they came from wink

don'tbesilly

13,900 posts

162 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
Amateurish said:
Genuine question, if France pulls out of the Treaty which allows UK border officials to operate on French soil, what then?
I would imagine the French will be putting those foreigners back on the Ferry and sending them back to the uk where they came from wink
I must have missed the announcement of planned deportations of EU nationals from the UK, or was that yet another rather daft post.

Next biggrin

del mar

2,838 posts

198 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Murph7355 said:
I'm obviously a little partisan, but how about Macron does something about his other borders so that people don't get the opportunity to congregate in Calais?
Clue: Schengen

France doesn't have any land borders to do anything about.
Unles there are too many migrants at the border crossing to Italy at ventimiglia. They managed to introduce one there all of a sudden ....

Murph7355

Original Poster:

37,648 posts

255 months

Wednesday 17th January 2018
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Clue: Schengen

France doesn't have any land borders to do anything about.
France very much still has land borders. As a result of Schengen it is delegating its responsibilities to the outer boundary nations of the Schengen zone.

That is not the UK's issue. We used our opt out for Schengen, so why should we be picking up any of the tab for the Calais issue? It very much seems a case of despite us having an opt out, we still pick up the tab. A good result of being members, no?

We are geographically very fortunate. France and the Schengen countries should be dealing with it. We know they are incapable, but that is not our issue.

If France don't like what is happening in Calais, they should be reconsidering their Schengen membership, or getting the outer border states to sort it (good luck with that while Merkel is in charge).