Where is the dark web, and what's on it?
Discussion
marksx said:
Ari said:
I'm curious about how people find this kind of stuff in the first place (the Dark Web, not the stuff on it).
I have no interest in anything on the 'dark web', yet my inquisitive mind wonders, if I wanted a wild weekend on the marching powder, and couldn't be bothered following the local range rovers around, how would you go about getting it online?Baffles me.
If the internet is just a load of computers talking to each other, has someone just built another internet, that only talks to had computers, in black cases?
Do you access with a secret password through a virtual back door?
People do stuff via the internet such as:
Surf websites (the web)
Send email
Stream movies/media
Transfer data/files
Etc.
The "dark web" is just a term for all the really dodgy stuff that goes on on the internet, and is hidden by the users. It isn't a seperate tangible thing.
bazza white said:
Im a fairly curious person but never strayed into the dark web. TOR has its uses like communication during the turkish coup.
Even though encrypted can ISP's tell your using TOR. Does it not justbset alarm bells ringing for further investigation using TOR.
ISP's will be able to spot TOR traffic. Many enterprise grade firewalls can block TOR traffic for instance.Even though encrypted can ISP's tell your using TOR. Does it not justbset alarm bells ringing for further investigation using TOR.
I'm sure TOR traffic would raise suspicion about a user in some countries.
I believe lot of stuff is word of mouth & invite / approval only, I've personally never gone on TOR mostly because of it's association in my mind with crims and the worst of the worst. Which is a shame because if it was more normal to use it then it would give more cover to those that might legitimately need it like gays in iran or whatever, but that's just how it is I guess.
The 'Dark Web' is, as others have said, not one single entity.
At a basic level, it's anything that search engines do not index. So back ends of databases, your dropbox storage - anything that you couldn't access directly by searching for it in Google.
The 'Dark Web' referred to in this instance are hidden websites, only accessible by using specialist browsers, most commonly the 'TOR' browser. It's called 'TOR' because it stands for 'The Onion Router.' This reasonably effectively anonymises your web traffic by bouncing it through 3 (Or more) relays, before arriving at it's destination. At each relay a layer of encryption is added or removed - the layering principle giving it it's Onion name. The only relay that sees your real IP address is the first relay (Or the last relay if it's information coming to you). That relay sends it onto the next relay in the chain, which only sees the IP address of the first relay NOT your actual IP address. Rinse and repeat until it reaches it's destination. Reverse on the way back to you. There's a lot more hugely technical stuff going on that I don't really understand, but the upshot is, if you're using TOR, it's impossible for anyone observing the destination server to see your real IP address using it. This works if you're using another 'surface web' (Normal) website.
The Dark Web 'Onion' websites are websites hosted on servers using the same technology to disguise themselves. As someone else mentioned they end in '.onion' rather than .com or .co.uk or whatever. They are only accessible using the TOR browser, and their true geographic location is hidden.
The technology was indeed initially developed by the US Navy, and then made public for a very very simple reason - ISP's can see when someone is using TOR. While they can't see the content of the traffic, or where it's going to, they can see that it is TOR traffic, as the IP address's of the gateway relays are public. If only the US Navy were using it for 'secret' traffic, it would immediately be obvious which internet traffic was US Navy traffic. So government agencies that use it to anonymise their traffic need other people to use it too, so that they can hide in the 'noise.'
It has many uses. Whistle blowers use it, activists in oppressive regimes use it, human rights lawyers use it, journalists use it to protect their sources. It's really really not just drugs/weapons/paedophilia.
The fact that criminals use it does lead to the slightly bizarre situation where one branch of the US Government (NSA/FBI) is trying to compromise a technology that another branch (the military) still actively funds the development of.....!
Current thinking is the whole shebang still works, and hasn't been broken or compromised. People who have been caught using it have normally been caught through errors. If you sign into your personal email while using it, obviously you're not anonymous anymore! Other methods of tracing people have included javascript attacks that force the browser to ping another server outside the network, revealing your real IP address.
You could argue that's it's very bad uses mean it should be broken/outlawed - but then what of the people who use it for extremely good uses? It's a bit like cars. Most people use them for good purposes. A minority of people use them as weapons and get away cars. Sadly any technology always enables both good and bad.
It's very possible to use TOR/The Dark Web, and never come across anything illegal. You just need to be a bit careful.
At a basic level, it's anything that search engines do not index. So back ends of databases, your dropbox storage - anything that you couldn't access directly by searching for it in Google.
The 'Dark Web' referred to in this instance are hidden websites, only accessible by using specialist browsers, most commonly the 'TOR' browser. It's called 'TOR' because it stands for 'The Onion Router.' This reasonably effectively anonymises your web traffic by bouncing it through 3 (Or more) relays, before arriving at it's destination. At each relay a layer of encryption is added or removed - the layering principle giving it it's Onion name. The only relay that sees your real IP address is the first relay (Or the last relay if it's information coming to you). That relay sends it onto the next relay in the chain, which only sees the IP address of the first relay NOT your actual IP address. Rinse and repeat until it reaches it's destination. Reverse on the way back to you. There's a lot more hugely technical stuff going on that I don't really understand, but the upshot is, if you're using TOR, it's impossible for anyone observing the destination server to see your real IP address using it. This works if you're using another 'surface web' (Normal) website.
The Dark Web 'Onion' websites are websites hosted on servers using the same technology to disguise themselves. As someone else mentioned they end in '.onion' rather than .com or .co.uk or whatever. They are only accessible using the TOR browser, and their true geographic location is hidden.
The technology was indeed initially developed by the US Navy, and then made public for a very very simple reason - ISP's can see when someone is using TOR. While they can't see the content of the traffic, or where it's going to, they can see that it is TOR traffic, as the IP address's of the gateway relays are public. If only the US Navy were using it for 'secret' traffic, it would immediately be obvious which internet traffic was US Navy traffic. So government agencies that use it to anonymise their traffic need other people to use it too, so that they can hide in the 'noise.'
It has many uses. Whistle blowers use it, activists in oppressive regimes use it, human rights lawyers use it, journalists use it to protect their sources. It's really really not just drugs/weapons/paedophilia.
The fact that criminals use it does lead to the slightly bizarre situation where one branch of the US Government (NSA/FBI) is trying to compromise a technology that another branch (the military) still actively funds the development of.....!
Current thinking is the whole shebang still works, and hasn't been broken or compromised. People who have been caught using it have normally been caught through errors. If you sign into your personal email while using it, obviously you're not anonymous anymore! Other methods of tracing people have included javascript attacks that force the browser to ping another server outside the network, revealing your real IP address.
You could argue that's it's very bad uses mean it should be broken/outlawed - but then what of the people who use it for extremely good uses? It's a bit like cars. Most people use them for good purposes. A minority of people use them as weapons and get away cars. Sadly any technology always enables both good and bad.
It's very possible to use TOR/The Dark Web, and never come across anything illegal. You just need to be a bit careful.
Edited by pip t on Monday 19th February 22:22
Ari said:
pip t said:
The 'Dark Web' is...
That's fascinating, thank you. It is fascinating - I got interested in it through the whole Snowden affair - it was the technology he used before he outed himself. There's a wealth of info about it out there to be read if you're interested.
Incidentally one person referenced the fact that access to TOR can be detected and therefore blocked by ISP's and commercial networks if they chose. This is true to an extent. While the gateway relays are public and therefore blockable, there are also non-publicised gateways that can be connected to - these are called 'TOR Bridges' and are rather more difficult to block. They exist so that people connecting from countries that filter and block access can still access it.
It's a good name for a group though, isn't it?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
As I understand it, it contains stuff that any human being with the faintest shred of decency wouldn't want to access.
I wouldn't be too sure of that, Twig. My son is a HSE Inspector and I was having an interesting conversation with him recently about this. Apparently, they have people constantly monitoring the dark web for suppliers of illegal/unsafe products. I would guess the police are there in numbers too. All decent people, doing a not very pleasant job for the rest of us.The Dark web is simply the internet that is not on the regular URLs in laymans terms.
You are logging in with a hidden IP address, thus you can go onto market places with your identity hidden, and log into hidden markets like "silk Road" and "Dream Market" and buy what you want.
It is the 'dark' Amazon of the the internet.
You are logging in with a hidden IP address, thus you can go onto market places with your identity hidden, and log into hidden markets like "silk Road" and "Dream Market" and buy what you want.
It is the 'dark' Amazon of the the internet.
numtumfutunch said:
Assuming the anonymity of the dark web requires a little bit of technical skill and knowledge isnt it just easier to take a laptop to your local boozer and log onto their guest wifi to do one's nefarious deeds?
Or am I missing something?
The Tor browser is designed to minimize unintentional identifying information leakage from your computer unlike your normal browser. Requires minimal skill - you download the Tor Browser and open it, then browse as you would normally.Or am I missing something?
So if you are at your local boozer, the device you are using will likely be recognizable and google will say "oh its numtumfutunch at his pub, serve him some car lease ads as he likes cars, and some offers from a rival pub". You will also have cookies saved.
Try: https://panopticlick.eff.org/ and https://amiunique.org
Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 20th February 00:05
numtumfutunch said:
Assuming the anonymity of the dark web requires a little bit of technical skill and knowledge isnt it just easier to take a laptop to your local boozer and log onto their guest wifi to do one's nefarious deeds?
Or am I missing something?
Sort of, but not really. You would come from the pub's IP address rather than your home one, yes. But the encryption element of TOR wouldn't apply in the same way. Your computer would still be very easily identifiable via cookies etc as well.Or am I missing something?
You wouldn't be able to access any of the .onion websites should you wish to.
It really depends on what you're trying to hide. If you simply don't want your home IP logged on a particular website then yes, that method would work. If you're the next Edward Snowden trying to evade nation state level tracking/surveillance, nope.
And to take your first point, it really doesn't take a huge level of skill to use it. If you can download and install Firefox/Chrome/Whatever, you can download and install TOR Browser.
And on a really basic level, if you are doing something dodgy, don't forget in your boozer a wide range of people can see what's on your screen......it probably wouldn't be a great idea to have what's on the screen in the screenshot someone posted above on your screen down the pub....!
pip t said:
The 'Dark Web' is, as others have said, not one single entity.
At a basic level, it's anything that search engines do not index. So back ends of databases, your dropbox storage - anything that you couldn't access directly by searching for it in Google.
That's the Deep Web is it not? At a basic level, it's anything that search engines do not index. So back ends of databases, your dropbox storage - anything that you couldn't access directly by searching for it in Google.
I downloaded TOR and had a look around once upon a time. I can't remember coming across anything interesting and TOR is so sub dial up slow that I'd risk arrest selling 's
t' on Ebay just to save time. bloomen said:
pip t said:
The 'Dark Web' is, as others have said, not one single entity.
At a basic level, it's anything that search engines do not index. So back ends of databases, your dropbox storage - anything that you couldn't access directly by searching for it in Google.
That's the Deep Web is it not? At a basic level, it's anything that search engines do not index. So back ends of databases, your dropbox storage - anything that you couldn't access directly by searching for it in Google.
I downloaded TOR and had a look around once upon a time. I can't remember coming across anything interesting and TOR is so sub dial up slow that I'd risk arrest selling 's
t' on Ebay just to save time. Deep Web = unindexed 'normal' web
Dark Web = TOR/ Onion sites.
It's been a long old day......!
Re the speed of it - there's far more bandwidth on the network these days. You'd still not want to stream You Tube over it some of the time, but for web browsing it's pretty quick.
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