How far will house prices fall [volume 5]

How far will house prices fall [volume 5]

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NickCQ

4,053 posts

60 months

Monday 22nd February
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z4RRSchris said:
Im in PE, not IB
Yeah I wasn't referring to you specifically, know you are in REPE.

z4RRSchris

9,767 posts

143 months

Monday 22nd February
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£12 and a bit M of deals today already, market has no sign of slowing down at all.

DanL

3,939 posts

229 months

Monday 22nd February
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vonuber said:
Grad civ eng salaries have outstripped other salaries, to the point a new grad can be earning more than somone with 3 years experience - until they realise, that is.
Interesting - I was a civil grad 20-something years ago, and went into IT as a good salary for a new civ eng grad at the time was 12k or there abouts, vs. the heady heights of 16k as a (very) junior programmer.

I would assume programmers are still paid way more than civics graduates, mind you! biggrin

ooid

2,440 posts

64 months

Monday 22nd February
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z4RRSchris said:
Just drives resi yeilds to the floor which is why they are 2-3% now in z1/2
Considering capital value of the property growing and your investors are long, than low yields would be a good thing, especially in Central London? Many investors just buy them and forget about them for a decade imho...

Flooble

2,891 posts

64 months

Monday 22nd February
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DanL said:
Interesting - I was a civil grad 20-something years ago, and went into IT as a good salary for a new civ eng grad at the time was 12k or there abouts, vs. the heady heights of 16k as a (very) junior programmer.

I would assume programmers are still paid way more than civics graduates, mind you! biggrin
We offer ~25K to new grad programmers. Some places go to 32.

Outside London.

BurtonLazars

516 posts

8 months

Monday 22nd February
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Flooble said:
We offer ~25K to new grad programmers. Some places go to 32.
Outside London.
The firm I’m currently working for offers up to £60k. Outside London. I nearly spewed when my most recent grad told me he almost didn’t accept the £58k + bonus we offered him because he was offerred more elsewhere.

DanL

3,939 posts

229 months

Monday 22nd February
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BurtonLazars said:
Flooble said:
We offer ~25K to new grad programmers. Some places go to 32.
Outside London.
The firm I’m currently working for offers up to £60k. Outside London. I nearly spewed when my most recent grad told me he almost didn’t accept the £58k + bonus we offered him because he was offerred more elsewhere.
Jesus. Do they have some weird speciality, like stting gold? biggrin

CraigyMc

12,219 posts

200 months

Monday 22nd February
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DanL said:
BurtonLazars said:
Flooble said:
We offer ~25K to new grad programmers. Some places go to 32.
Outside London.
The firm I’m currently working for offers up to £60k. Outside London. I nearly spewed when my most recent grad told me he almost didn’t accept the £58k + bonus we offered him because he was offerred more elsewhere.
Jesus. Do they have some weird speciality, like stting gold? biggrin
This has come up before.
Central London, new grads in the right places (predictably, finance) can be on six figure salaries.

BurtonLazars

516 posts

8 months

Monday 22nd February
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DanL said:
Jesus. Do they have some weird speciality, like stting gold? biggrin
They specialise in entitlement and thinking they know better than the guys who’ve been doing it for years.

DanL

3,939 posts

229 months

Monday 22nd February
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CraigyMc said:
This has come up before.
Central London, new grads in the right places (predictably, finance) can be on six figure salaries.
Well aware of this, I work for a FinTech. 60k graduate programmers aren’t (IMHO) worth 60k when they start out, as they know cock all. They’re maybe worth that in a year or two with the right specialisation, but perhaps I’m behind the times. biggrin

That said, maybe this is why we mostly develop offshore now - I can get a good few excellent programmers for 60k!

BurtonLazars

516 posts

8 months

Monday 22nd February
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DanL said:
60k graduate programmers aren’t (IMHO) worth 60k when they start out, as they know cock all. They’re maybe worth that in a year or two with the right specialisation, but perhaps I’m behind the times. :
...I didn’t say they were worth it wink

CraigyMc

12,219 posts

200 months

Monday 22nd February
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BurtonLazars said:
DanL said:
Jesus. Do they have some weird speciality, like stting gold? biggrin
They specialise in entitlement and thinking they know better than the guys who’ve been doing it for years.
Some of them are actually the best of the best available. There are super-smart kids these days.
Some of them have had helicopter parents right up until the start of employment and reality comes in like a wrecking ball, often around the second week (which is usually around the time someone needs something done by the new employee).
It's why a lot of places have summer student programs instead of just hiring straight from Universities - the good ones are invited back as Analysts, the bad ones are given a nice entry on their CV and sent on their way.

CraigyMc

12,219 posts

200 months

Monday 22nd February
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DanL said:
That said, maybe this is why we mostly develop offshore now - I can get a good few excellent programmers for 60k!
It's rarely that straightforward in my experience.

You might get 3 or 4 coders for that money, but they will need local management (so you're now on 1 manager and 2 coders, or more typically you're paying 90K for 1 manager and 3 coders with a hope that the work will end sooner so you don't look like you're overspending).

For repeated stuff (plug system A into system B using API Z) it's usually fine, or maintenance for currency (the present).

For brand-new, not been done before, or complex stuff, you're going to spend so long detailing what you want you'd generally be faster onshore, people working together in the room.

There are plenty of places where the "onshore in the room" is basically the whole business. Anything else is maintenance, but if you're fast enough with the new stuff you can develop yourself off anything old*


*that last part is a joke which I've seen unfold a lot.

BurtonLazars

516 posts

8 months

Monday 22nd February
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To counterbalance my grumpy snark - The difference is MOOCs and OSS. ...20 years ago a graduate had a qualification and no experience. Now a 22 year old grad may have been coding for 6+ years, have been contributing to open source projects, and built up a solid portfolio of specific experience/ done a practical masters in something relevant.


ooid

2,440 posts

64 months

Monday 22nd February
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CraigyMc said:
Some of them are actually the best of the best available. There are super-smart kids these days.
True but I highly doubt if the best of the best would ever stay in the U.K. anymore. It’s been pretty hard to recruit quite good employees.There is no incentive really. Start at 60k, maybe hit 100k in a few years, and take only £66k of that to home? What’s the point?

NickCQ

4,053 posts

60 months

Monday 22nd February
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ooid said:
True but I highly doubt if the best of the best would ever stay in the U.K. anymore. It’s been pretty hard to recruit quite good employees.There is no incentive really. Start at 60k, maybe hit 100k in a few years, and take only £66k of that to home? What’s the point?
Agree, the wealth creation opportunities either in US Big Tech or the SF startup scene for those of the right mindset / skills are unmatched in the UK.

CraigyMc

12,219 posts

200 months

Monday 22nd February
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ooid said:
CraigyMc said:
Some of them are actually the best of the best available. There are super-smart kids these days.
True but I highly doubt if the best of the best would ever stay in the U.K. anymore. It’s been pretty hard to recruit quite good employees. There is no incentive really. Start at 60k, maybe hit 100k in a few years, and take only £66k of that to home? What’s the point?
I don't think we've had problems hiring, or finding good people. It's a decent place to work though, and people know it.

As for the 100K only to take 66K home, the effective 62% tax rate between 100K and 125K is slightly more eyewatering.

Lets say you made 100K one year then got a 25K bonus. Your takehome on that bonus would be £9,500, without anything weird happening, simply because as well as being taxed at 40% with NI at 2%, from £100K to £125K you lose your basic allowance at a rate of £1 for every additional £2 you make -- so you wind up with a perverse camel-bump in the income tax "gradated tax system" that disappears when you get on the other side of £125K.

If you started on £125 and got the same £25K bonus, you'd take home £14.500 of the bonus.

NickCQ

4,053 posts

60 months

Monday 22nd February
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CraigyMc said:
Central London, new grads in the right places (predictably, finance) can be on six figure salaries.
I think that's probably overdoing it for "new grads". You should get there in a buyside firm 3-4 years post-graduating but you wouldn't walk out of uni into "six figs"

CraigyMc

12,219 posts

200 months

Monday 22nd February
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NickCQ said:
CraigyMc said:
Central London, new grads in the right places (predictably, finance) can be on six figure salaries.
I think that's probably overdoing it for "new grads". You should get there in a buyside firm 3-4 years post-graduating but you wouldn't walk out of uni into "six figs"
I've already seen this happening in my own team.

NickCQ

4,053 posts

60 months

Monday 22nd February
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CraigyMc said:
I've already seen this happening in my own team.
Interesting, what sector? I should have said my post was only about finance grads, to be clear.
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