Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)

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ant1973

83 posts

155 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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loafer123 said:
Whilst I agree with your post, the logical thing would be for business owners to pay themselves through wages if that incurred less tax.

Personally, as the co-owner of several businesses, I do little tax planning/optimisation at the moment but would start to do so if Corbyn got in.
Shifting to self employment is also likely since self employed ni is cheaper than employer ni. I wonder if they have considered that behavioural change?

Stay in Bed Instead

18,376 posts

107 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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ant1973 said:
Shifting to self employment is also likely since self employed ni is cheaper than employer ni. I wonder if they have considered that behavioural change?
Other downsides to be considered with that though.

ant1973

83 posts

155 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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Stay in Bed Instead said:
Other downsides to be considered with that though.
Yes. Not for the feint hearted or under insured.! Cue disposal of assets to spouse and humourous divorce consequences thereafter!

oop north

1,123 posts

78 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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ant1973 said:
Shifting to self employment is also likely since self employed ni is cheaper than employer ni. I wonder if they have considered that behavioural change?
No, they definitely haven’t. Have had one quick read through the manifesto and the funding document and they seem to assume that most behaviours will be unchanged - they assume that dividend income is unearned income, and there is a comment to the effect that if you run a company and take dividends instead of earnings (Salary with nic thereon) well you should just be taking it as salary

loafer123

9,491 posts

165 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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ant1973 said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Other downsides to be considered with that though.
Yes. Not for the feint hearted or under insured.! Cue disposal of assets to spouse and humourous divorce consequences thereafter!
That’s what LLPs are for...

Dr Jekyll

18,715 posts

211 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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98elise said:
How much employers NI do PAYE employees pay?
13.8%

Wombat3

8,647 posts

156 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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Dr Jekyll said:
98elise said:
How much employers NI do PAYE employees pay?
13.8%
And that number will be squarely in McDonnel's sights, you can bet the farm on that.

Hes committed not to change employee rates but said nothing about Employers rates.

Same as he will pull the same stunt Brown did & sneak through an effective tax rise by not raising allowances with inflation. (So called fiscal drag)

We've seen it all before.

oop north

1,123 posts

78 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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Dr Jekyll said:
98elise said:
How much employers NI do PAYE employees pay?
13.8%
Not that simple - there are two different sorts of PAYE employees in the context of this discussion:

1. Those who do not own the company that is their employer - they don’t pay any employees NI. Their employer pays 13.8%

2. Those who own the employing company (so, many owner managed businesses) who pay the 13.8% NI themselves via reduced dividend

JagLover

27,523 posts

185 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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oop north said:
Dr Jekyll said:
98elise said:
How much employers NI do PAYE employees pay?
13.8%
Not that simple - there are two different sorts of PAYE employees in the context of this discussion:

1. Those who do not own the company that is their employer - they don’t pay any employees NI. Their employer pays 13.8%

2. Those who own the employing company (so, many owner managed businesses) who pay the 13.8% NI themselves via reduced dividend
Or perhaps it is that simple as it is all part of the costs of employing someone. Added to which as well is the autoenrollment pension contributions. Whether it is deducted from gross pay or added on top it is all part of the difference between the cost to the employer and what the individual employee receives.

ant1973

83 posts

155 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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The requirement to pay ER's NI is a function of the legal fiction that a company has a separate legal personality from its shareholders. For lots of people, flipping to self employment will defeat entirely the effect of the dividend tax. They really have not thought this through. You can just imagine emergency budget after emergency budget as they make it up as they go along. It's the stuff that is not in the manifesto that should concern us all. Offering free stuff to 95% of the population is an ingenious strategy since it requires quite a lot of them to say "hang on, that's not going to work...".

ORD

13,869 posts

77 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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I’m most concerned about the £15k give away to femal pensioners. Pure bribery. There’s no moral argument there at all.

Essel

272 posts

96 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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ORD said:
I’m most concerned about the £15k give away to femal pensioners. Pure bribery. There’s no moral argument there at all.
As men lost out as well due to the age going from 65 to 66, will this group of men be reimbursed as well? Or is that the wrong question.


I only ask as I'm 65 next year. wink

turbobloke

88,044 posts

210 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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ORD said:
I’m most concerned about the £15k give away to female pensioners. Pure bribery. There’s no moral argument there at all.
Desperation! It's not in their manifesto.

ORD

13,869 posts

77 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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turbobloke said:
Desperation! It's not in their manifesto.
It’ll get them hundreds of thousands of votes, at least potentially.

turbobloke

88,044 posts

210 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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ORD said:
turbobloke said:
Desperation! It's not in their manifesto.
It’ll get them hundreds of thousands of votes, at least potentially.
Spread over 650 constituencies.

As it's not in the manifesto, there's little detail beyond the knee-jerk desperation involved, and not all of those affected will be so selfish they'll risk screwing the country for a maybe handout at an unknown time from a politician and a party clearly inhabiting the highest echelons of probity and veracity.

98elise

15,741 posts

111 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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Dr Jekyll said:
98elise said:
How much employers NI do PAYE employees pay?
13.8%
Since when do employee's pay employers NI?

Dr Jekyll

18,715 posts

211 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
98elise said:
Dr Jekyll said:
98elise said:
How much employers NI do PAYE employees pay?
13.8%
Since when do employee's pay employers NI?
Since it became part of the cost of employing somebody. Do you accept that PAYE employees pay employees NI even though it's the employer that writes the cheque?

spaximus

3,661 posts

203 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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Here we have the first of the big businesses moving their bases, not because of Brexit, but because of Corbyn and co's plan to nationalise everything. It would appear this gives some protection from Labours intended theft of assets at below market rate.

Obviously Labour have spun this to say this is why it needs nationalising but it shows their plans are ill thought out at best if simply doing this, with more companies doing the same, just in case will protect them or make it more difficult to grab what is not theirs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50536205

bazza white

2,601 posts

78 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
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turbobloke said:
ORD said:
I’m most concerned about the £15k give away to female pensioners. Pure bribery. There’s no moral argument there at all.
Desperation! It's not in their manifesto.
Its 30k.

I think he watched Boris get hit with the question the other evening and thought he could score some quick brownie points. Shows how reckless he is if he can splash 58bn in a few hours, and labour voters moaned at 1bn to the DUP (for NI people obviously)









Burwood

14,649 posts

196 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
bazza white said:
turbobloke said:
ORD said:
I’m most concerned about the £15k give away to female pensioners. Pure bribery. There’s no moral argument there at all.
Desperation! It's not in their manifesto.
Its 30k.

I think he watched Boris get hit with the question the other evening and thought he could score some quick brownie points. Shows how reckless he is if he can splash 58bn in a few hours, and labour voters moaned at 1bn to the DUP (for NI people obviously)


His tweet about the Tory manifesto ‘for billionaires and you’ll pay for it’. What utter drivel.
And who’s paying for his? My children and possibly theirs.
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