Really, can I be held liable for my tenants actions??

[bearman68]

Hoping for a little advice, as PH is the sum of all human knowledge and a wonderful place to be

Anyway, today, out of the blue I had a letter land on my doorstep. It's from the local council senior environmental health officer. She has written to my tenant in respect of some bags of rubbish being stored in the front and rear garden of my tenanted house. There has now been 'another' complaint with respect to the accumulation of rubbish, and the possible sighting of rats.
The officer is seeking my co-operation in dealing with the matter, but in the event of it not being cleared, then a statutory notice will be issued against me, and if works to clear are required, "a charge will be registered against the property until the debt is paid"

Now I try my best to be a decent and helpful landlord and human being - so I'm happy to offer as much co-operation as I can. I'm happy to write to the tenant, and have an inspection and a chat, and if required, chuck the stuff on a trailer and take it to the tip. All fair enough. Now I'm not going to rant about the tone of the letter (which has raised my hackles), or the any amount of doubt that could be cast on the source of information. I can't evict my tenant - I have signed a tenancy agreement to allow him to stay there for another 9 months - and he pays his rent on time, and as far as I can see generally behaves himself. I have a suspicion that he doesn't get on with the neighbours, and I wonder if this is part of the complaint, but that at this point of time all these things are a side issue.

The real question is.... Can I be held liable for the poor behavoir of my tenants, and should any costs incurred in cleaning up their rubbish be able to legally pass to me? (And again, I'm not talking about moral responsibility here, but a legal charge).

Look forward to replies, hopefully ones that focus on the question, and not on the dubious nature of my character.

[Ahbefive]

Yes

[Mojooo]

Surely though if your tenant is brekaing the law that is reason enough for you to end the agreement (if you had wanted to)?

[Lopey]

Yes, ultimately your responsibility, but you could recover costs from your tenant through the court system.

[bearman68]

Ahbefive said:

Yes

Can you elaborate please? And is this a considered answer with many years legal background, or just an off the cuff comment?

There must be a limit - Do I do 25 years if my tenant murders someone? Do I get his speeding fines, or his fines for littering the street?

[Mojooo]

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/environment/environmental-...

[Ahbefive]

bearman68 said:

Ahbefive said:

Yes

Can you elaborate please? And is this a considered answer with many years legal background, or just an off the cuff comment?

There must be a limit - Do I do 25 years if my tenant murders someone? Do I get his speeding fines, or his fines for littering the street?

You can be help liable for costs relating to the property, including environmental issues etc. No you can't get done for him murdering someone. Experience from my father being a Landlord.

[Ian Geary]

Ahbefive said:

You can be help liable for costs relating to the property, including environmental issues etc. No you can't get done for him murdering someone. Experience from my father being a Landlord.

That would have been funnier if you had said "experience from my father being a murderer"

Comedy opportunity lost. Hey ho.

Presumably such costs could be recovered from the tenancy deposit scheme? If that applies to you / your tenancy.

Ian

[Ahbefive]

Ian Geary said:

That would have been funnier if you had said "experience from my father being a murderer"

Comedy opportunity lost. Hey ho.

Ian

bugger.

[Wings]

Yes, the Landlord may be contacted by their local environmental health officer, under environmental issues, being removal of rubbish, pests control, noise etc. etc., all of the same falling under HHSRS, which is either part of the Housing Act 2004, and/or the Environmental Protection Act.

Where the Environment Health officer are forced to intervene, OP you do not want this to happen, they will intervene at a considerable financial cost for the Landlord, and possibly prosecution through the criminal courts.

The OP should take immediate action to address the rubbish issue with his tenant/s. and at the financial cost to the tenant/s, immediately remove the rubbish, advising the Environmental Health officer with photographic evidence of doing the same.

Edited by Wings on Monday 15th October 23:21

[TooMany2cvs]

bearman68 said:

I can't evict my tenant - I have signed a tenancy agreement to allow him to stay there for another 9 months - and he pays his rent on time, and as far as I can see generally behaves himself.

Yes, you can.
Section 8 notice doesn't need the fixed term to have expired.
There's three of the s8 grounds which could apply...

The law said:

Ground 12 The tenant has breached any of the terms listed in the tenancy agreement.
Ground 13 The tenant has neglected or damaged the property, or they have sublet the property to another individual who has neglected or damaged the property.
Ground 14 The tenant is considered a nuisance to neighbours or other tenants and has received complaints concerning their conduct.

They're discretionary rather than mandatory, so if you issued them the tenant would be allowed to plead his case against possession being granted, but you COULD evict.

bearman68 said:

The real question is.... Can I be held liable for the poor behavoir of my tenants, and should any costs incurred in cleaning up their rubbish be able to legally pass to me? (And again, I'm not talking about moral responsibility here, but a legal charge).

Yes, you can. End of the day, it's your property that's causing the environmental nuisance. It's a good thing that crap landlords can't just shirk the actions of their tenants in lowering the tone of an area. You'd be glad if this was the next door landlord...

But, of course, you can then pass that charge back to your tenant, as a deduction against the deposit or by launching a claim against him in the court with a CCJ for him if he still refuses to pay. It doesn't have to end up on your pocket. Unless, of course, he disappears and doesn't have anything worth claiming against...

[TwistingMyMelon]

Your house, your tenant , your responsibility!

Phone them up and tell them to stop being filthy buggers : Job jobbed

[surveyor_101]

Dig your tenancy out there should be a clause covering maintenance of gardens and not allow the property or garden to become a rubbish dump.


You just tell your tenant they have 7 days to clear up or you will instruct a contractor on their behalf to clear as you have had enforcement from EH.

If your tenant is outside of the assured period I would also threaten to serve noticed as rats and waste at your HOUSE is not good.

The tenant is being unreasonable but you have responsibility to your neighbours to keep the tenant inline.

[Drawweight]

This is great news.

So all the local authority/ housing association tenants can be turfed out on the street for anti social behaviour?

I thought not.

[S11Steve]

TooMany2cvs said:

bearman68 said:

I can't evict my tenant - I have signed a tenancy agreement to allow him to stay there for another 9 months - and he pays his rent on time, and as far as I can see generally behaves himself.

Yes, you can.
Section 8 notice doesn't need the fixed term to have expired.
There's three of the s8 grounds which could apply...

The law said:

Ground 12 The tenant has breached any of the terms listed in the tenancy agreement.
Ground 13 The tenant has neglected or damaged the property, or they have sublet the property to another individual who has neglected or damaged the property.
Ground 14 The tenant is considered a nuisance to neighbours or other tenants and has received complaints concerning their conduct.

They're discretionary rather than mandatory, so if you issued them the tenant would be allowed to plead his case against possession being granted, but you COULD evict.

bearman68 said:

The real question is.... Can I be held liable for the poor behavoir of my tenants, and should any costs incurred in cleaning up their rubbish be able to legally pass to me? (And again, I'm not talking about moral responsibility here, but a legal charge).

Yes, you can. End of the day, it's your property that's causing the environmental nuisance. It's a good thing that crap landlords can't just shirk the actions of their tenants in lowering the tone of an area. You'd be glad if this was the next door landlord...

But, of course, you can then pass that charge back to your tenant, as a deduction against the deposit or by launching a claim against him in the court with a CCJ for him if he still refuses to pay. It doesn't have to end up on your pocket. Unless, of course, he disappears and doesn't have anything worth claiming against...

I concur - I had a similar issue with my former tenants, complaints from the neighbours, escalated to the council and they contacted me as landlord.
To be fair to the council though, they worked with me - they did explain that by rights the landlord "can" be held responsible, but that is something that happens further down the line if things get worse or there is no effort made to resolve the problem.

I got mine evicted on a section 21 - the original AST had expired, and they were (initially at least) paying monthly but refused to sign new AST, then stopped paying....
(3 years later, I've not long had the last payment collected by the bailiffs)

[martinbiz]

To avoid any further grief from the LA, the pragmatic thing would be to just get the rubbish cleared by a company and as was mentioned above, deduct the cost from their deposit. Let them know in writing what you are doing and that you will do it again if the problem persists, hopefully the threat of getting nothing back when they leave will put an end to the problem.

[TooMany2cvs]

Drawweight said:

So all the local authority/ housing association tenants can be turfed out on the street for anti social behaviour?

Yes, of course they can - and that's nothing new.

[geeks]

Chances are, there are no rats, however when you want the council to act when they aren't in regards to rubbish, you just mention rats and it lights a fire, working the system I believe they call it.

Can you drive past and see what they might be on about? Appreciate you can't inspect without notice but this doesn't prevent you driving past the house I believe.

[Countdown]

bearman68 said:

Hoping for a little advice, as PH is the sum of all human knowledge and a wonderful place to be

Anyway, today, out of the blue I had a letter land on my doorstep. It's from the local council senior environmental health officer. She has written to my tenant in respect of some bags of rubbish being stored in the front and rear garden of my tenanted house. There has now been 'another' complaint with respect to the accumulation of rubbish, and the possible sighting of rats.
The officer is seeking my co-operation in dealing with the matter, but in the event of it not being cleared, then a statutory notice will be issued against me, and if works to clear are required, "a charge will be registered against the property until the debt is paid"

Now I try my best to be a decent and helpful landlord and human being - so I'm happy to offer as much co-operation as I can. I'm happy to write to the tenant, and have an inspection and a chat, and if required, chuck the stuff on a trailer and take it to the tip. All fair enough. Now I'm not going to rant about the tone of the letter (which has raised my hackles), or the any amount of doubt that could be cast on the source of information. I can't evict my tenant - I have signed a tenancy agreement to allow him to stay there for another 9 months - and he pays his rent on time, and as far as I can see generally behaves himself. I have a suspicion that he doesn't get on with the neighbours, and I wonder if this is part of the complaint, but that at this point of time all these things are a side issue.

The real question is.... Can I be held liable for the poor behavoir of my tenants, and should any costs incurred in cleaning up their rubbish be able to legally pass to me? (And again, I'm not talking about moral responsibility here, but a legal charge).

Look forward to replies, hopefully ones that focus on the question, and not on the dubious nature of my character.

I had exactly the same. I had to pay.

[surveyor_101]

Drawweight said:

This is great news.

So all the local authority/ housing association tenants can be turfed out on the street for anti social behaviour?

I thought not.

Private Landlords are always held to a much higher standard! That's not to say they don't have to clear up after their tenants