The People's Vote - which way would you vote?

[Piha]

psi310398 said:

Piha said:

I'll play your infantile game....

Jobs.

The EU were busy setting up a new office in London to deal with Law (London is pretty good at Law, just ask the EU). Around 5000 highly paid jobs. But due to the ref', it's not going to happen now.

Infrastructure - https://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/news/uk-transpo...
Peace in Europe
SME - https://ec.europa.eu/commission/priorities/jobs-gr...
CBI - http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-glo...
Liverpool even! - https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/wr...
Wales too - https://gov.wales/funding/eu-funds/?lang=en
There is even a map for those that struggle to read - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/mapped...

The EU has no money of its own - it money from MS taxpayers or more accurately certain MS taxpayers. As the UK is, and always has been, a net contributor, you are talking about our money.

Infrastructure - UK taxpayers' money - a small part of which sent back to the UK
Peace in Europe - NATO not EU
SME - UK taxpayers' money - a small part of which sent back to the UK
Liverpool - UK taxpayers' money - a small part of which sent back to the UK
Wales - UK taxpayers' money - a small part of which sent back to the UK

All of the above are a benefit. This is a fact. You cannot deny this is.

Successive UK governments have largely ignored some of the poorer parts of the EU, so with tacit support and help from successive UK governments that were democratically voted in by the electorate, the EU has directed funds to area's of the UK that government has largely ignored.

Again,this is a benefit.

That is what the poster was requesting.

[Pan Pan Pan]

oyster said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

gooner1 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have done my own research, thank you, and found that in fact there are NO benefits for the UK being a member of the EU. The fact that you have not been able to provide any examples of how being in the EU benefits the UK, simply confirms the fact that being in the EU provides NO benefits for the UK.
If you had done some research of your own. you would discover this, and thereby change your position to a leave vote. Unless of course you are such a rabid Europhile, you want the EU to benefit at the UK`s expense. Not sure what that would make you, but it looks very, very nasty from my perspective.

You are aware you are responding to a person that is the EU personified.
One that thrived from others expense.

Morning Shylock.

Thank you but the fact that he / she / it has not been able to provide a single good reason for the UK to remain in the EU tells me all I need to know. The fact is that in reality they cannot.

Good god this is childish.

There are lots of good reasons to remain in the EU. There are lots of good reasons to get out of the EU. Your own position might opine that there are more or better benefits to either leaving or remaining or some people might genuinely be halfway between the two. But to take a stance that there are NO benefits to either remaining or leaving makes you out to be infantile or incapable of meaningful debate.

Life isn't black and white.
My 3 year old is learning that already - how is it that adults can't grasp that too?


PS. I'm not trying to suggest people should swap sides, I'm just asking for some more maturity and understanding of other peoples' views.

And yet you are not able to provide a single example of how the UK benefits from being in the EU.
If enough people could point out how the UK benefits from being in the EU, you might even be able to convince some that membership of the EU is good for the UK, strangely no one has been able to.
A particular person has suggested jobs for example, But over 3.3 million EU nationals have come to the UK in search of work, but less than 1 million UK nationals have moved to the other way into EU countries How is this a benefit for UK citizens who are also looking for work?
Some idiots have even suggested the UK receives cash from the EU, How stupid is that?

[oyster]

Pan Pan Pan said:

oyster said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

gooner1 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have done my own research, thank you, and found that in fact there are NO benefits for the UK being a member of the EU. The fact that you have not been able to provide any examples of how being in the EU benefits the UK, simply confirms the fact that being in the EU provides NO benefits for the UK.
If you had done some research of your own. you would discover this, and thereby change your position to a leave vote. Unless of course you are such a rabid Europhile, you want the EU to benefit at the UK`s expense. Not sure what that would make you, but it looks very, very nasty from my perspective.

You are aware you are responding to a person that is the EU personified.
One that thrived from others expense.

Morning Shylock.

Thank you but the fact that he / she / it has not been able to provide a single good reason for the UK to remain in the EU tells me all I need to know. The fact is that in reality they cannot.

Good god this is childish.

There are lots of good reasons to remain in the EU. There are lots of good reasons to get out of the EU. Your own position might opine that there are more or better benefits to either leaving or remaining or some people might genuinely be halfway between the two. But to take a stance that there are NO benefits to either remaining or leaving makes you out to be infantile or incapable of meaningful debate.

Life isn't black and white.
My 3 year old is learning that already - how is it that adults can't grasp that too?


PS. I'm not trying to suggest people should swap sides, I'm just asking for some more maturity and understanding of other peoples' views.

And yet you are not able to provide a single example of how the UK benefits from being in the EU.
If enough people could point out how the UK benefits from being in the EU, you might even be able to convince some that membership of the EU is good for the UK, strangely no one has been able to.
A particular person has suggested jobs for example, But over 3.3 million EU nationals have come to the UK in search of work, but less than 1 million UK nationals have moved to the other way into EU countries How is this a benefit for UK citizens who are also looking for work?
Some idiots have even suggested the UK receives cash from the EU, How stupid is that?

Stop. Please just stop.

This is the problem with this ridiculous childish debate. I am not a remainer. I didn't vote remain in the referendum.

And yet you're arguing AGAIN that only black and white exists.

[Coolbanana]

Pan Pan Pan said:

And yet you are not able to provide a single example of how the UK benefits from being in the EU.
If enough people could point out how the UK benefits from being in the EU, you might even be able to convince some that membership of the EU is good for the UK, strangely no one has been able to.
A particular person has suggested jobs for example, But over 3.3 million EU nationals have come to the UK in search of work, but less than 1 million UK nationals have moved to the other way into EU countries How is this a benefit for UK citizens who are also looking for work?
Some idiots have even suggested the UK receives cash from the EU, How stupid is that?

This topic is 5 Threads in...what you are asking for has been discussed dozens of times previously. The benefits of being a part of the EU are easy to find.

You have demonstrated what an utter moronic argument you start from by stating that you have not heard of a single one...this is pathetic nonsense that even a child would be embarrassed to proffer.

No one can have any issue with educated people weighing the pros and cons and deciding upon a position one way or another, but to declare after 2 years of debate that you have not seen a single benefit to remaining in the EU is demonstrative of a fool.

[Coolbanana]

gooner1 said:

Morning Shylock.

Afternoon Gooner! Yes, have zero issue taking money from you and your kind

[esxste]

Pan Pan Pan said:

And yet you are not able to provide a single example of how the UK benefits from being in the EU.
If enough people could point out how the UK benefits from being in the EU, you might even be able to convince some that membership of the EU is good for the UK, strangely no one has been able to.
A particular person has suggested jobs for example, But over 3.3 million EU nationals have come to the UK in search of work, but less than 1 million UK nationals have moved to the other way into EU countries How is this a benefit for UK citizens who are also looking for work?
Some idiots have even suggested the UK receives cash from the EU, How stupid is that?

I'm pretty sure you've seen lots of reasons, I suspect you just didn't comprehend them.

Napkin maths.

1.1 million UK citizens find jobs in EU countries.
3.3 million EU citizens find jobs in UK

Makes a net of 2.2 million more jobs in the UK. Jobs pay salaries which pay taxes. UK gets the tax from those jobs. Salaries also pay for goods, good bought and used in the country, increasing revenues for UK based retailers.

[Piha]

Pan Pan Pan said:

oyster said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

gooner1 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have done my own research, thank you, and found that in fact there are NO benefits for the UK being a member of the EU. The fact that you have not been able to provide any examples of how being in the EU benefits the UK, simply confirms the fact that being in the EU provides NO benefits for the UK.
If you had done some research of your own. you would discover this, and thereby change your position to a leave vote. Unless of course you are such a rabid Europhile, you want the EU to benefit at the UK`s expense. Not sure what that would make you, but it looks very, very nasty from my perspective.

You are aware you are responding to a person that is the EU personified.
One that thrived from others expense.

Morning Shylock.

Thank you but the fact that he / she / it has not been able to provide a single good reason for the UK to remain in the EU tells me all I need to know. The fact is that in reality they cannot.

Good god this is childish.

There are lots of good reasons to remain in the EU. There are lots of good reasons to get out of the EU. Your own position might opine that there are more or better benefits to either leaving or remaining or some people might genuinely be halfway between the two. But to take a stance that there are NO benefits to either remaining or leaving makes you out to be infantile or incapable of meaningful debate.

Life isn't black and white.
My 3 year old is learning that already - how is it that adults can't grasp that too?


PS. I'm not trying to suggest people should swap sides, I'm just asking for some more maturity and understanding of other peoples' views.

And yet you are not able to provide a single example of how the UK benefits from being in the EU.
If enough people could point out how the UK benefits from being in the EU, you might even be able to convince some that membership of the EU is good for the UK, strangely no one has been able to.
A particular person has suggested jobs for example, But over 3.3 million EU nationals have come to the UK in search of work, but less than 1 million UK nationals have moved to the other way into EU countries How is this a benefit for UK citizens who are also looking for work?
Some idiots have even suggested the UK receives cash from the EU, How stupid is that?

Serious question, is English your first language?

[Coolbanana]

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have done my own research, thank you, and found that in fact there are NO benefits for the UK being a member of the EU. The fact that you have not been able to provide any examples of how being in the EU benefits the UK, simply confirms the fact that being in the EU provides NO benefits for the UK.
If you had done some research of your own. you would discover this, and thereby change your position to a leave vote. Unless of course you are such a rabid Europhile, you want the EU to benefit at the UK`s expense. Not sure what that would make you, but it looks very, very nasty from my perspective.

The Gammon is strong with this one!

3Pans, go back to the first Thread and start reading - you will find that I have answered your question a few times already. No need for me to go into detail again just because you are a lazy failure.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Coolbanana said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

And yet you are not able to provide a single example of how the UK benefits from being in the EU.
If enough people could point out how the UK benefits from being in the EU, you might even be able to convince some that membership of the EU is good for the UK, strangely no one has been able to.
A particular person has suggested jobs for example, But over 3.3 million EU nationals have come to the UK in search of work, but less than 1 million UK nationals have moved to the other way into EU countries How is this a benefit for UK citizens who are also looking for work?
Some idiots have even suggested the UK receives cash from the EU, How stupid is that?

This topic is 5 Threads in...what you are asking for has been discussed dozens of times previously. The benefits of being a part of the EU are easy to find.

You have demonstrated what an utter moronic argument you start from by stating that you have not heard of a single one...this is pathetic nonsense that even a child would be embarrassed to proffer.

No one can have any issue with educated people weighing the pros and cons and deciding upon a position one way or another, but to declare after 2 years of debate that you have not seen a single benefit to remaining in the EU is demonstrative of a fool.

No need for al the bull Sh*t, Just admit that you cannot come up with a single good reason why the UK should remain in the EU, and are therefore just trying to bluster your way out of the question. Say no more, we now all know where you are coming from ,and that you have no answer to the question. You really are an idiot.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Piha said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

oyster said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

gooner1 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have done my own research, thank you, and found that in fact there are NO benefits for the UK being a member of the EU. The fact that you have not been able to provide any examples of how being in the EU benefits the UK, simply confirms the fact that being in the EU provides NO benefits for the UK.
If you had done some research of your own. you would discover this, and thereby change your position to a leave vote. Unless of course you are such a rabid Europhile, you want the EU to benefit at the UK`s expense. Not sure what that would make you, but it looks very, very nasty from my perspective.

You are aware you are responding to a person that is the EU personified.
One that thrived from others expense.

Morning Shylock.

Thank you but the fact that he / she / it has not been able to provide a single good reason for the UK to remain in the EU tells me all I need to know. The fact is that in reality they cannot.

Good god this is childish.

There are lots of good reasons to remain in the EU. There are lots of good reasons to get out of the EU. Your own position might opine that there are more or better benefits to either leaving or remaining or some people might genuinely be halfway between the two. But to take a stance that there are NO benefits to either remaining or leaving makes you out to be infantile or incapable of meaningful debate.

Life isn't black and white.
My 3 year old is learning that already - how is it that adults can't grasp that too?


PS. I'm not trying to suggest people should swap sides, I'm just asking for some more maturity and understanding of other peoples' views.

And yet you are not able to provide a single example of how the UK benefits from being in the EU.
If enough people could point out how the UK benefits from being in the EU, you might even be able to convince some that membership of the EU is good for the UK, strangely no one has been able to.
A particular person has suggested jobs for example, But over 3.3 million EU nationals have come to the UK in search of work, but less than 1 million UK nationals have moved to the other way into EU countries How is this a benefit for UK citizens who are also looking for work?
Some idiots have even suggested the UK receives cash from the EU, How stupid is that?

Serious question, is English your first language?

Even you it seems cannot come up with a single good example of how the UK benefits from being in the EU. No more need be said.

[esxste]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Even you it seems cannot come up with a single good example of how the UK benefits from being in the EU. No more need be said.

Curious how you skipped my post that pointed out, with your own statistics, how the EU benefited the UK.

No more need be said, because you feel like an idiot who can't keep the concepts of jobs and citizens straight in their head?

[psi310398]

Piha said:

All of the above are a benefit. This is a fact. You cannot deny this is.

Successive UK governments have largely ignored some of the poorer parts of the EU, so with tacit support and help from successive UK governments that were democratically voted in by the electorate, the EU has directed funds to area's of the UK that government has largely ignored.

Again,this is a benefit.

That is what the poster was requesting.

I can and do deny that it is a benefit. Given that the money is being spent on things that cannot pass the UK government's own standard investment appraisal tests (or else they would be funded by HMG), the money is largely being pissed away on white elephants, but if it allows the EU to claim some bread and circuses, I guess.

[Europa1]

Can we just get out as quickly as possible, please? Because I am utterly fed up to the back teeth with the whole bloody saga, the constant sniping on this and other forums, grown adults using terms like "remoaner" and "gammon", and the endless media orgy over the whole debacle.

[Crackie]

Ghibli said:

Isn't Brexit great

[otis criblecoblis]

Coolbanana said:

but to declare after 2 years of debate that you have not seen a single benefit to remaining in the EU is demonstrative of a fool.

Does the same apply to those who said there is no valid reason to vote Leave ?

[Robertj21a]

Voting on this thread now at 1200 but % to get out is still 58%. If Helicopter and pals can't influence others reading this thread then it suggests (to me at least) that a good few don't believe the twaddle they keep spouting.

[psi310398]

esxste said:

I'm pretty sure you've seen lots of reasons, I suspect you just didn't comprehend them.

Napkin maths.

1.1 million UK citizens find jobs in EU countries.
3.3 million EU citizens find jobs in UK

Makes a net of 2.2 million more jobs in the UK. Jobs pay salaries which pay taxes. UK gets the tax from those jobs. Salaries also pay for goods, good bought and used in the country, increasing revenues for UK based retailers.

It's a good argument, and I'm a leaver who is fairly relaxed about migration.

But your argument does need to be offset by factors such as the fact that many of those 2.2 million people are helping suppress wages and many of those jobs attract subsidy such as working family tax credits. 2.2 million extra jobs also implies all kinds of other pressures on British society, such as pressure on housing, schools, hospitals etc.

Which is not to argue against migrant workers, but to recognise that it is not unalloyed sweetness and light either.

[Piha]

psi310398 said:

esxste said:

I'm pretty sure you've seen lots of reasons, I suspect you just didn't comprehend them.

Napkin maths.

1.1 million UK citizens find jobs in EU countries.
3.3 million EU citizens find jobs in UK

Makes a net of 2.2 million more jobs in the UK. Jobs pay salaries which pay taxes. UK gets the tax from those jobs. Salaries also pay for goods, good bought and used in the country, increasing revenues for UK based retailers.

It's a good argument, and I'm a leaver who is fairly relaxed about migration.

But your argument does need to be offset by factors such as the fact that many of those 2.2 million people are helping suppress wages and many of those jobs attract subsidy such as working family tax credits. 2.2 million extra jobs also implies all kinds of other pressures on British society, such as pressure on housing, schools, hospitals etc.

Which is not to argue against migrant workers, but to recognise that it is not unalloyed sweetness and light either.

EU workers contribute £2300 a year more - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-...

[RATATTAK]

If the PM is looking for a new Brexit negotiator she should look a little wider than just her own party for a suitable candidate - how about Dianne Abbott ? - She'd run rings round anyone the EU has got

IMO of course

[esxste]

psi310398 said:

It's a good argument, and I'm a leaver who is fairly relaxed about migration.

But your argument does need to be offset by factors such as the fact that many of those 2.2 million people are helping suppress wages and many of those jobs attract subsidy such as working family tax credits. 2.2 million extra jobs also implies all kinds of other pressures on British society, such as pressure on housing, schools, hospitals etc.

Which is not to argue against migrant workers, but to recognise that it is not unalloyed sweetness and light either.

Working tax credits are themselves a factor in keeping wages supressed, and are designed as a subsidy to private companies and not individuals. Migration is undoubtedly a factor in lack of wage growth, but I don't think it is the main one.

I don't buy the pressures thing so much. Housing policy, schools and hospitals are all paid for out of tax; the fact they are under pressure is because of incompetent governance than migration.

Official figures suggest that EU migrants contribute more in taxes than they take in services... and this is logical, they're usually young adults who don't need educating or much healthcare.