Yellow vests - fuel protest day of action in France

[Fartomatic5000]

I got stuck near Calais on Saturday but a bit of reversing on a dual carriageway got me back to another roundabout where I needed to get to. Sunday was clear, no blockages or gilets jaunes to be seen apart from on dashboards with people showing support.
Monday morning and the autoroute was queued back for hours, very slow moving.

Got stuck earlier this year in the SNCF train strikes too, had to make the best of the situation by staying a few extra nights on the south coast of France. No problem for me, I had a great time, but I don't know how others would cope with extra expenses and time off work etc. The SNCF staff were friendly and helpful arranging refunds and advising about re-booking.

There were strikes at the carrefour supermarket earlier this year too, employees had tipped over trolleys and were banging drums to discourage anyone from shopping there. Can't help thinking that strike was counterproductive, I would never force anyone to take my money and there is always another supermarket a short drive away.

I can't see how Macron can cave in, the French love striking about anything and if they get their way with this strike it will just make things worse in the future if he wants to increase taxes elsewhere.

[Jag_NE]

rxe said:

It's not crackers though is it. Even in this country, diesel is dirt cheap when compared to other forms of transport.

I've been handed a 600 mile a week commute for a while. It costs me about £80 a week in diesel, in a fully depreciated car that owes me nothing. Putting £20 a week into the "tyres and servicing" sinking fund, means it costs me £100 a week.

Taking the train would cost me £90 a day + a cab at each end. Of course you can get cheaper trains, but not if you want to be in work around 9 AM.

errr I see your point, but although the car is fully depreciated, you did still incur the cost. No different to someone who might have put 30 grand aside last year for rail tickets now saying that their rail travel is free. Its true however that if you "need" a car for things other than commuting, the variable cost of the fuel for commuting is loads cheaper than public transport (and nicer).

Speaking more generally, a lot of these rural frenchies run pretty old cars (very often diesels) that with a combination of good weather and thorough maintenance results in longevity and they would rather use their spare money to spend in restaurants rather than use tax changes as an excuse to get PCP'd or leased up on something new like many Brits would. While eating beans on toast every night.

[Puggit]

magooagain said:

The protest is not just about fuel prices,it's a general moan about price hikes and allowance cuts also.
Macron seems to be thier hate target.

How about the absurd 80kmph rural speed limit too?

[Wobbegong]

magooagain said:

It's still on going here in France. My local town was chaos this morning with the main roundabout blockaded. Intermarche super market closed its petrol sales due to the yellow vest threat of a full supermarket blockade.

Seems over 200 speed cameras have been destroyed since Saturday.

The protest is not just about fuel prices,it's a general moan about price hikes and allowance cuts also.
Macron seems to be thier hate target.

Good stuff

[jakesmith]

irocfan said:

jakesmith said:

But I can also understand the frustration of several drivers trying to force through which apparently did cause a death and some injury. It’s not justified but I can see how it happened with hot headed people and panics etc. Standing in a road or motorway with nothing but a yellow vest for protection from traffic is not without risk

As I read it it was an elderly lady who panicked when protesters started banging on her roof....

There were hundreds of injuries

[Wobbegong]

Fartomatic5000 said:

I got stuck near Calais on Saturday but a bit of reversing on a dual carriageway got me back to another roundabout where I needed to get to. Sunday was clear, no blockages or gilets jaunes to be seen apart from on dashboards with people showing support.
Monday morning and the autoroute was queued back for hours, very slow moving.

Got stuck earlier this year in the SNCF train strikes too, had to make the best of the situation by staying a few extra nights on the south coast of France. No problem for me, I had a great time, but I don't know how others would cope with extra expenses and time off work etc. The SNCF staff were friendly and helpful arranging refunds and advising about re-booking.

There were strikes at the carrefour supermarket earlier this year too, employees had tipped over trolleys and were banging drums to discourage anyone from shopping there. Can't help thinking that strike was counterproductive, I would never force anyone to take my money and there is always another supermarket a short drive away.

I can't see how Macron can cave in, the French love striking about anything and if they get their way with this strike it will just make things worse in the future if he wants to increase taxes elsewhere.

The trouble for Macron is that he is universally despised. He only won because he wasn’t Le Pen. At least Trump had genuine supporters when Clinton drove people away from the Democrats. Poor little Macron needs to tread carefully, or just completely ignore the protests.

[James_B]

caelite said:

Will proudly take part if they come here. Not sure why more trade unions push for this as fuel costs hit the working poor the hardest, the cost of which is no fault of the free market but almost purely our governments doing.

The CO2 that your car puts out damages the planet every bit as much as that put out by a A Veyron.

Fuel tax is very fair as it charges based on use.

[Davidonly]

James_B said:

The CO2 that your car puts out damages the planet every bit as much as that put out by a A Veyron.

Fuel tax is very fair as it charges based on use.

The CO2 that my (or any other car or combustion process) puts out doesn't seem to have any effect on anything...... Some computer models think it might but there is zero evidence that is the case. On the other hand, the policy responses to the imagined threat are busy exporting jobs and wealth overseas AND hitting the very people protesting in France hard, in often not very deep pockets. The politicians there and in many other 'virtue signalling' governments would be wise to take stock of this situation. They are not elected simply to make life harder for everyone. That's what local authorities are there for

[caelite]

James_B said:

caelite said:

Will proudly take part if they come here. Not sure why more trade unions push for this as fuel costs hit the working poor the hardest, the cost of which is no fault of the free market but almost purely our governments doing.

The CO2 that your car puts out damages the planet every bit as much as that put out by a A Veyron.

Fuel tax is very fair as it charges based on use.

But what alternative do people have? My big problem with the policies set by our government is that they are very 'London-centric'. The ideal that the working poor can just take public transport links to their places of work is just unrealistic throughout most of the country.

I'll take myself as an example, I grew up near Oban, my first job involved commuting into Oban from my mums house, this was a 25 minute drive. The only public transport link was a bus that ran once every 6 hours (it's got better, nowadays its's every 4 hours). And took 40 minutes. Where I live today, I am ~10 miles outside of Glasgows west end, I currently commute 15-20 minutes by car (about 6 miles), to utilise public transport I would be a £3.00 (each way) bus, and a £2.80 (return) train taking 50 minutes. So, £8.80 (about an hours wage ) to get to work and back, vs £2.40 in fuel.

Increases in fuel duty don't push people on to public transport, they just make the poor poorer. There needs to be a balance between environmental idealism and making working class lives more difficult than they have to be.

Edited by caelite on Tuesday 20th November 22:24

[rxe]

Jag_NE said:

errr I see your point, but although the car is fully depreciated, you did still incur the cost. No different to someone who might have put 30 grand aside last year for rail tickets now saying that their rail travel is free. Its true however that if you "need" a car for things other than commuting, the variable cost of the fuel for commuting is loads cheaper than public transport (and nicer).

Speaking more generally, a lot of these rural frenchies run pretty old cars (very often diesels) that with a combination of good weather and thorough maintenance results in longevity and they would rather use their spare money to spend in restaurants rather than use tax changes as an excuse to get PCP'd or leased up on something new like many Brits would. While eating beans on toast every night.

I’ve got the car already, and would have it if I didn’t have to do this commute. Even if I count the cost of buying the car outright, it cost £287, so it doesn’t help your argument.

I still think that the ability to drive 600 miles in leather upholstered comfort, while picking my nose whenever I want to, is pretty cheap at £80. Even cheaper when I am being paid 45p a mile to do it.

[Wobbegong]

Davidonly said:

James_B said:

The CO2 that your car puts out damages the planet every bit as much as that put out by a A Veyron.

Fuel tax is very fair as it charges based on use.

The CO2 that my (or any other car or combustion process) puts out doesn't seem to have any effect on anything...... Some computer models think it might but there is zero evidence that is the case. On the other hand, the policy responses to the imagined threat are busy exporting jobs and wealth overseas AND hitting the very people protesting in France hard, in often not very deep pockets. The politicians there and in many other 'virtue signalling' governments would be wise to take stock of this situation. They are not elected simply to make life harder for everyone. That's what local authorities are there for

[wc98]

Wobbegong said:

Davidonly said:

James_B said:

The CO2 that your car puts out damages the planet every bit as much as that put out by a A Veyron.

Fuel tax is very fair as it charges based on use.

The CO2 that my (or any other car or combustion process) puts out doesn't seem to have any effect on anything...... Some computer models think it might but there is zero evidence that is the case. On the other hand, the policy responses to the imagined threat are busy exporting jobs and wealth overseas AND hitting the very people protesting in France hard, in often not very deep pockets. The politicians there and in many other 'virtue signalling' governments would be wise to take stock of this situation. They are not elected simply to make life harder for everyone. That's what local authorities are there for

i'm glad david replied first. mine would not have been so mild.at least the people ,or most of them, have half a clue on the climate change/global warming thread. co2 is not and never will be a pollutant. without it there would be no life on earth.

[Le Vette]

Puggit said:

How about the absurd 80kmph rural speed limit too?

'kin outrage. Ludicrous. My car barely ticks over at 80km/h. Something for me to genuinely protest about as our other two cars are petrol not diesel. And I live in rural France...

[Balmoral]

Checking up on fuel prices across Western Europe, they don't appear to have too much to complain about really, a bit more than here and a bit less than their immediate neighbours.

[Puggit]

Balmoral said:

Checking up on fuel prices across Western Europe, they don't appear to have too much to complain about really, a bit more than here and a bit less than their immediate neighbours.

French diesel prices have risen spectacularly over the last few years and are again on a sharp uptick after a small drop. We used to fill up at the port in France to save a tonne of cash, when on the way home.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/603709/diesel-...

[Balmoral]

Pop those figures into a French inflation calculator over 18 years and it's not far off.

[Shakermaker]

Balmoral said:

Pop those figures into a French inflation calculator over 18 years and it's not far off.

But that isn't really the point, is it?

They've seen an increase in the rate of fuel above what they think is fair. Doesn't matter if it is right or not, it is not what they want, and so will protest about it.

[Amateurish]

Saw the protestors at a peage today. They were actually speeding up the traffic since all the barriers were lifted. They were waving "€0" signs.

[Shakermaker]

Amateurish said:

Saw the protestors at a peage today. They were actually speeding up the traffic since all the barriers were lifted. They were waving "€0" signs.

Sounds like a better way to protest.

Maybe rail staff in the UK could do the same when they want to protest - open all the barriers so nobody has to pay for their journey instead?

[irocfan]

Shakermaker said:

Sounds like a better way to protest.

Maybe rail staff in the UK could do the same when they want to protest - open all the barriers so nobody has to pay for their journey instead?

But then they wouldn't:

- get the day off
- get to make other people as miserable as they are