Voting as a muslim

Author
Discussion

TwigtheWonderkid

30,485 posts

98 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Digga said:
The problem is, whether you are Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Seventh Day Adventist or even Rastafarian, voting for any other party than the Tories (this time around) promises nothing but utter chaos. .
The bigger problem is a vote for the Tories promises nothing but utter mayhem, and a PM who is not a fit and proper person to be PM of Great Britain & N. Ireland.

Keoparakolo

346 posts

2 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Vanden Saab said:
Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...
LibDems - as a party they have no racist issues, there may be the odd idiot, but that isn’t endemic through the party. Their policies are reasonable. You Amy not like them, but they are reasonable

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist. Again, their policies might not be to your liking

Greens - pretty much a bunch of treehuggers, but have reasonable policies, not that the vast majority agree with them all.

Independent candidates - some of them are Ok, some less so. They may well have great policies for their local seat

Just to add, the OP can abstain, or spoil his paper if none of the above work for his views.

It’s not difficult to “guess” that your reaction will be “but, but, but Brexit” and that is the problem here. Brexit may well be what many want, but it has become an enabler for some to vocalise their inbuilt prejudices. The referendum has polarised views and sadly created a position where people are so obsessed that they will forgive anything to deliver what they want. Johnson’s recent failure to condemn Tommy Robinson’s endorsement of him smacks of `trump failing to criticise the `white `supremacists in Charlottesville.

Digga

28,538 posts

231 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Digga said:
The problem is, whether you are Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Seventh Day Adventist or even Rastafarian, voting for any other party than the Tories (this time around) promises nothing but utter chaos. .
The bigger problem is a vote for the Tories promises nothing but utter mayhem, and a PM who is not a fit and proper person to be PM of Great Britain & N. Ireland.
If you think the Lib-D-Dum-Dums (or anyone else) can deliver on their promise to cancel Brexit, you are on another planet. No one can.

Given that is the direction, the only party with any semblance of hope of delivering is...? (Answers on a ballot paper please.)

Also, the logic that because Brexit appeared to give some racist morons the idea they could ramp up their stupidity, cancelling Brexit will somehow put an end to such is risible. Given what we know of these types, it would likely make it worse.

Liokault

1,965 posts

162 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Keoparakolo said:
Vanden Saab said:
Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...
SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist.

.
You typed that with a straight face?

R Mutt

1,452 posts

20 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Plenty of people who voted to leave the EU based purely on migration. But plenty who voted to remain because they see it as a socialist super state purely for its lack of internal borders.

Keoparakolo

346 posts

2 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Liokault said:
Keoparakolo said:
Vanden Saab said:
Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...
SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist.

.
You typed that with a straight face?
I typed it badly with a straight face, unless you’re so sensitive that you think them wanting independence is the same as them being outwardly racist to you about your skin colour / religion.

Pothole

27,814 posts

230 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
ATG said:
voyds9 said:
If you see your self as part of an homogeneous group don't be surprised when the other 95% treat you as part of an homogeneous group
Saying "I'm a Muslim" is NOT saying "I'm part of an homogeneous group." It doesn't take much imagination to see that. For example do you think Christians in Northern Ireland are an homogenous group?

The homogeneity is almost always a supposition made by someone who definitely doesn't consider them self a member of the group. Anyone inside such a supposed group will see ask the factions, ranges of opinions held, the arguments, etc
Utterly ste example. How many in Northern Ireland would describe themselves as merely "Christian"? Do try and compare like with like if you really think you've got a point.

gizlaroc

13,203 posts

172 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
The bigger problem is a vote for the Tories promises nothing but utter mayhem.
Go on?

Why utter mayhem, I have seen you say this line a few times. But that is where it ends.

In what way do you think it will be utter mayhem?



clio007 said:
All Brexiteers are not racist.

But all racists are brexiteers.
This is clio007.

Clio007 is a bit of a tit.

Don't be like clio007.




Vanden Saab

4,013 posts

22 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Keoparakolo said:
Vanden Saab said:
Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...
LibDems - as a party they have no racist issues, there may be the odd idiot, but that isn’t endemic through the party. Their policies are reasonable. You Amy not like them, but they are reasonable

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist. Again, their policies might not be to your liking

Greens - pretty much a bunch of treehuggers, but have reasonable policies, not that the vast majority agree with them all.

Independent candidates - some of them are Ok, some less so. They may well have great policies for their local seat

Just to add, the OP can abstain, or spoil his paper if none of the above work for his views.

It’s not difficult to “guess” that your reaction will be “but, but, but Brexit” and that is the problem here. Brexit may well be what many want, but it has become an enabler for some to vocalise their inbuilt prejudices. The referendum has polarised views and sadly created a position where people are so obsessed that they will forgive anything to deliver what they want. Johnson’s recent failure to condemn Tommy Robinson’s endorsement of him smacks of `trump failing to criticise the `white `supremacists in Charlottesville.
Any party that supports remain = not racist... got ya...

bitchstewie

23,169 posts

158 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
By coincidence this was one the front page of the Guardian.

Muslim voters could swing 31 marginal seats, research finds

Voight Kampff

5,507 posts

108 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Keoparakolo said:
Liokault said:
Keoparakolo said:
Vanden Saab said:
Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...
SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist.

.
You typed that with a straight face?
I typed it badly with a straight face, unless you’re so sensitive that you think them wanting independence is the same as them being outwardly racist to you about your skin colour / religion.
I guess you'll excuse their anti-English xenophobia and abuse because it was equally applied, without discrimination, to all English people no matter whether black, white, Jewish, atheist or other.

pequod

761 posts

86 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Frankly, I'm amazed that this topic has rolled out to 13 pages and still going!

Has the OP said where his constituency is and who are standing as candidates to represent the 'whole' community? This may help answer his question as opposed to endless argument about which political party is, apparently, less racist than the others.

Pathetic, the OP is British born but appears to be caught up in the London BS of race and religion.

If this is a true reflection of modern Britain then we have set a course back to feudalism and religious wars; god help us!

Keoparakolo

346 posts

2 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Vanden Saab said:
Keoparakolo said:
Vanden Saab said:
Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...
LibDems - as a party they have no racist issues, there may be the odd idiot, but that isn’t endemic through the party. Their policies are reasonable. You Amy not like them, but they are reasonable

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist. Again, their policies might not be to your liking

Greens - pretty much a bunch of treehuggers, but have reasonable policies, not that the vast majority agree with them all.

Independent candidates - some of them are Ok, some less so. They may well have great policies for their local seat

Just to add, the OP can abstain, or spoil his paper if none of the above work for his views.

It’s not difficult to “guess” that your reaction will be “but, but, but Brexit” and that is the problem here. Brexit may well be what many want, but it has become an enabler for some to vocalise their inbuilt prejudices. The referendum has polarised views and sadly created a position where people are so obsessed that they will forgive anything to deliver what they want. Johnson’s recent failure to condemn Tommy Robinson’s endorsement of him smacks of `trump failing to criticise the `white `supremacists in Charlottesville.
Any party that supports remain = not racist... got ya...
I predicted that response in my post. There’s Labour, they’re sort of pro-Brexit and lovely and racist, there’s UKIP, the ones who employed Tommy Robinson and there’s the Brexit Party, the ones with Nige in charge, who loves his posters of brown people. They kind of write their own message.

So, is it just me that’s saying it, or reality that proves it?

Mothersruin

8,331 posts

47 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
pequod said:
Frankly, I'm amazed that this topic has rolled out to 13 pages and still going!

Has the OP said where his constituency is and who are standing as candidates to represent the 'whole' community? This may help answer his question as opposed to endless argument about which political party is, apparently, less racist than the others.

Pathetic, the OP is British born but appears to be caught up in the London BS of race and religion.

If this is a true reflection of modern Britain then we have set a course back to feudalism and religious wars; god help us!
Modern and religion rarely go hand in hand. It'll be a constant battle until the 1,400 year old set of instructions are binned for good. That'll never happen so we just have to hope that most keep ignoring the stabby bits and those that don't are kept away from the rest of us.

scenario8

5,339 posts

127 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Forgive me, I have not read the previous 12 pages, but what is the “London BS of race and religion”?

pequod

761 posts

86 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Mothersruin said:
pequod said:
Frankly, I'm amazed that this topic has rolled out to 13 pages and still going!

Has the OP said where his constituency is and who are standing as candidates to represent the 'whole' community? This may help answer his question as opposed to endless argument about which political party is, apparently, less racist than the others.

Pathetic, the OP is British born but appears to be caught up in the London BS of race and religion.

If this is a true reflection of modern Britain then we have set a course back to feudalism and religious wars; god help us!
Modern and religion rarely go hand in hand. It'll be a constant battle until the 1,400 year old set of instructions are binned for good. That'll never happen so we just have to hope that most keep ignoring the stabby bits and those that don't are kept away from the rest of us.
And yet the title of this topic, and the OP's responses that I have read, show there is an issue with some of our fellow citizens who can't let it go.

If this continues to be a question of 'who is less racist' then there will be a backlash eventually, but maybe that is inevitable with a multi-cultural society?

Rare

25 posts

2 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
By coincidence this was one the front page of the Guardian.

Muslim voters could swing 31 marginal seats, research finds
What a nonsense article by a nonsense paper.

Do Muslims really vote en masse??

Surely these people are British why would they be defined as being Muslim as opposed to British ?

Why do they feel they need to stand differently ?
Do Sikhs and Hindus vote en masse or is it only a Muslim thing ?


FazerBoy

453 posts

98 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
I don’t really understand the stance of the SNP.

It appears to me that they are saying that once Brexit is delivered they want another Scottish referendum regarding staying in the UK. I presume that if they win that they will attempt to join the EU as an independent nation.

Haven’t they seen all the issues around a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland? What would they propose happens in terms of a border between England and Scotland if they are accepted into the EU as an independent country?

JuanCarlosFandango

2,138 posts

19 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Keoparakolo said:
LibDems - as a party they have no racist issues, there may be the odd idiot, but that isn’t endemic through the party. Their policies are reasonable. You Amy not like them, but they are reasonable
Who want to ignore the biggest democratic mandate in British political history. Very reasonable.

Keoparakolo said:
SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist. Again, their policies might not be to your liking
In Scotland when the OP is in London. My definition of reasonable would also exclude breaking up the UK.

I also dare say that if the English were as jumpy about racism as some groups then you could find a few "racist" SNP members.

Keoparakolo said:
Greens - pretty much a bunch of treehuggers, but have reasonable policies, not that the vast majority agree with them all.
Lib Dems who as well as wanting to ignore the referendum result want to ban cars by next Tuesday afternoon.

Keoparakolo said:
Independent candidates - some of them are Ok, some less so. They may well have great policies for their local seat
I'd be interested to hear what you think makes a reasonable candidate. I suspect we would disagree.

Keoparakolo said:
, or spoil his paper if none of the above work for his views.

It’s not difficult to “guess” that your reaction will be “but, but, but Brexit” and that is the problem here. Brexit may well be what many want, but it has become an enabler for some to vocalise their inbuilt prejudices. The referendum has polarised views and sadly created a position where people are so obsessed that they will forgive anything to deliver what they want. Johnson’s recent failure to condemn Tommy Robinson’s endorsement of him smacks of `trump failing to criticise the `white `supremacists in Charlottesville.
You mean the indignant reaction of the permanently indignant is the same?


I'm not a Muslim so I can't be sure how I would view the Tories if I was, but for a party of the right it's hardly surprising if a few of it's 190,000 members have some odd views, especially on Islam which with the best will in the world has come up for all the wrong reasons in the last few years.

Conversely they have a Muslim Chancellor, an Indian Hindu (I think?) Home Secretary and a Chairman who is half African. And Boris himself had a Muslim grandfather. It is not a fundamentally racist party, and if the worst Islamophobia anyone can find in Boris Johnson is likening the full face veil to a letterbox then it is pathetic.

The same joke was made on Have I Got News For You and nobody batted an eyelid. Polly Toynbee called the veil "a public tarring and feathering of female sexuality." She also declared there was no such thing as Islamophobia, in the Guardian.

https://order-order.com/2018/08/10/bbc-guardian-al...

Yes of course there are a few racists in the Tory party and a few more who support them. They don't define the party by any stretch of the imagination, however hard a few people try to make it so.

Moreover if you want anything approaching a free market, fiscally responsible party which might just trim back some of the worst excesses of the state then they are the only show in town. If you let a few silly comments by some obscure councillors who have since been suspended put you off then all you will achieve is letting in a genuinely racist party who want the exact opposite of those things.

pequod

761 posts

86 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
scenario8 said:
Forgive me, I have not read the previous 12 pages, but what is the “London BS of race and religion”?
The vast majority in this nation are sick and tired of hearing about racial hatred and division between religions that emanate from London, and other large cities, as regularly broadcast by the press and in other media. The OP has asked a question based on religion that never enters the mind of most voters in this country, and so it shouldn't, unless we are bent on a backwards evolution of political deliberation.

Do you deny it?