Voting as a muslim

[gizlaroc]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

The bigger problem is a vote for the Tories promises nothing but utter mayhem.

Go on?

Why utter mayhem, I have seen you say this line a few times. But that is where it ends.

In what way do you think it will be utter mayhem?

clio007 said:

All Brexiteers are not racist.

But all racists are brexiteers.

This is clio007.

Clio007 is a bit of a tit.

Don't be like clio007.

[Vanden Saab]

Keoparakolo said:

Vanden Saab said:

Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...

LibDems - as a party they have no racist issues, there may be the odd idiot, but that isn’t endemic through the party. Their policies are reasonable. You Amy not like them, but they are reasonable

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist. Again, their policies might not be to your liking

Greens - pretty much a bunch of treehuggers, but have reasonable policies, not that the vast majority agree with them all.

Independent candidates - some of them are Ok, some less so. They may well have great policies for their local seat

Just to add, the OP can abstain, or spoil his paper if none of the above work for his views.

It’s not difficult to “guess” that your reaction will be “but, but, but Brexit” and that is the problem here. Brexit may well be what many want, but it has become an enabler for some to vocalise their inbuilt prejudices. The referendum has polarised views and sadly created a position where people are so obsessed that they will forgive anything to deliver what they want. Johnson’s recent failure to condemn Tommy Robinson’s endorsement of him smacks of `trump failing to criticise the `white `supremacists in Charlottesville.

Any party that supports remain = not racist... got ya...

[bitchstewie]

By coincidence this was one the front page of the Guardian.

Muslim voters could swing 31 marginal seats, research finds

[anonymous-user]

Keoparakolo said:

Liokault said:

Keoparakolo said:

Vanden Saab said:

Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist.

.

You typed that with a straight face?

I typed it badly with a straight face, unless you’re so sensitive that you think them wanting independence is the same as them being outwardly racist to you about your skin colour / religion.

I guess you'll excuse their anti-English xenophobia and abuse because it was equally applied, without discrimination, to all English people no matter whether black, white, Jewish, atheist or other.

[pequod]

Frankly, I'm amazed that this topic has rolled out to 13 pages and still going!

Has the OP said where his constituency is and who are standing as candidates to represent the 'whole' community? This may help answer his question as opposed to endless argument about which political party is, apparently, less racist than the others.

Pathetic, the OP is British born but appears to be caught up in the London BS of race and religion.

If this is a true reflection of modern Britain then we have set a course back to feudalism and religious wars; god help us!

[Keoparakolo]

Vanden Saab said:

Keoparakolo said:

Vanden Saab said:

Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...

LibDems - as a party they have no racist issues, there may be the odd idiot, but that isn’t endemic through the party. Their policies are reasonable. You Amy not like them, but they are reasonable

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist. Again, their policies might not be to your liking

Greens - pretty much a bunch of treehuggers, but have reasonable policies, not that the vast majority agree with them all.

Independent candidates - some of them are Ok, some less so. They may well have great policies for their local seat

Just to add, the OP can abstain, or spoil his paper if none of the above work for his views.

It’s not difficult to “guess” that your reaction will be “but, but, but Brexit” and that is the problem here. Brexit may well be what many want, but it has become an enabler for some to vocalise their inbuilt prejudices. The referendum has polarised views and sadly created a position where people are so obsessed that they will forgive anything to deliver what they want. Johnson’s recent failure to condemn Tommy Robinson’s endorsement of him smacks of `trump failing to criticise the `white `supremacists in Charlottesville.

Any party that supports remain = not racist... got ya...

I predicted that response in my post. There’s Labour, they’re sort of pro-Brexit and lovely and racist, there’s UKIP, the ones who employed Tommy Robinson and there’s the Brexit Party, the ones with Nige in charge, who loves his posters of brown people. They kind of write their own message.

So, is it just me that’s saying it, or reality that proves it?

[Mothersruin]

pequod said:

Frankly, I'm amazed that this topic has rolled out to 13 pages and still going!

Has the OP said where his constituency is and who are standing as candidates to represent the 'whole' community? This may help answer his question as opposed to endless argument about which political party is, apparently, less racist than the others.

Pathetic, the OP is British born but appears to be caught up in the London BS of race and religion.

If this is a true reflection of modern Britain then we have set a course back to feudalism and religious wars; god help us!

Modern and religion rarely go hand in hand. It'll be a constant battle until the 1,400 year old set of instructions are binned for good. That'll never happen so we just have to hope that most keep ignoring the stabby bits and those that don't are kept away from the rest of us.

[scenario8]

Forgive me, I have not read the previous 12 pages, but what is the “London BS of race and religion”?

[pequod]

Mothersruin said:

pequod said:

Frankly, I'm amazed that this topic has rolled out to 13 pages and still going!

Has the OP said where his constituency is and who are standing as candidates to represent the 'whole' community? This may help answer his question as opposed to endless argument about which political party is, apparently, less racist than the others.

Pathetic, the OP is British born but appears to be caught up in the London BS of race and religion.

If this is a true reflection of modern Britain then we have set a course back to feudalism and religious wars; god help us!

Modern and religion rarely go hand in hand. It'll be a constant battle until the 1,400 year old set of instructions are binned for good. That'll never happen so we just have to hope that most keep ignoring the stabby bits and those that don't are kept away from the rest of us.

And yet the title of this topic, and the OP's responses that I have read, show there is an issue with some of our fellow citizens who can't let it go.

If this continues to be a question of 'who is less racist' then there will be a backlash eventually, but maybe that is inevitable with a multi-cultural society?

[Rare]

bhstewie said:

By coincidence this was one the front page of the Guardian.

Muslim voters could swing 31 marginal seats, research finds

What a nonsense article by a nonsense paper.

Do Muslims really vote en masse??

Surely these people are British why would they be defined as being Muslim as opposed to British ?

Why do they feel they need to stand differently ?
Do Sikhs and Hindus vote en masse or is it only a Muslim thing ?

[FazerBoy]

I don’t really understand the stance of the SNP.

It appears to me that they are saying that once Brexit is delivered they want another Scottish referendum regarding staying in the UK. I presume that if they win that they will attempt to join the EU as an independent nation.

Haven’t they seen all the issues around a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland? What would they propose happens in terms of a border between England and Scotland if they are accepted into the EU as an independent country?

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Keoparakolo said:

LibDems - as a party they have no racist issues, there may be the odd idiot, but that isn’t endemic through the party. Their policies are reasonable. You Amy not like them, but they are reasonable

Who want to ignore the biggest democratic mandate in British political history. Very reasonable.

Keoparakolo said:

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist. Again, their policies might not be to your liking

In Scotland when the OP is in London. My definition of reasonable would also exclude breaking up the UK.

I also dare say that if the English were as jumpy about racism as some groups then you could find a few "racist" SNP members.

Keoparakolo said:

Greens - pretty much a bunch of treehuggers, but have reasonable policies, not that the vast majority agree with them all.

Lib Dems who as well as wanting to ignore the referendum result want to ban cars by next Tuesday afternoon.

Keoparakolo said:

Independent candidates - some of them are Ok, some less so. They may well have great policies for their local seat

I'd be interested to hear what you think makes a reasonable candidate. I suspect we would disagree.

Keoparakolo said:

, or spoil his paper if none of the above work for his views.

It’s not difficult to “guess” that your reaction will be “but, but, but Brexit” and that is the problem here. Brexit may well be what many want, but it has become an enabler for some to vocalise their inbuilt prejudices. The referendum has polarised views and sadly created a position where people are so obsessed that they will forgive anything to deliver what they want. Johnson’s recent failure to condemn Tommy Robinson’s endorsement of him smacks of `trump failing to criticise the `white `supremacists in Charlottesville.

You mean the indignant reaction of the permanently indignant is the same?


I'm not a Muslim so I can't be sure how I would view the Tories if I was, but for a party of the right it's hardly surprising if a few of it's 190,000 members have some odd views, especially on Islam which with the best will in the world has come up for all the wrong reasons in the last few years.

Conversely they have a Muslim Chancellor, an Indian Hindu (I think?) Home Secretary and a Chairman who is half African. And Boris himself had a Muslim grandfather. It is not a fundamentally racist party, and if the worst Islamophobia anyone can find in Boris Johnson is likening the full face veil to a letterbox then it is pathetic.

The same joke was made on Have I Got News For You and nobody batted an eyelid. Polly Toynbee called the veil "a public tarring and feathering of female sexuality." She also declared there was no such thing as Islamophobia, in the Guardian.

https://order-order.com/2018/08/10/bbc-guardian-al...

Yes of course there are a few racists in the Tory party and a few more who support them. They don't define the party by any stretch of the imagination, however hard a few people try to make it so.

Moreover if you want anything approaching a free market, fiscally responsible party which might just trim back some of the worst excesses of the state then they are the only show in town. If you let a few silly comments by some obscure councillors who have since been suspended put you off then all you will achieve is letting in a genuinely racist party who want the exact opposite of those things.

[pequod]

scenario8 said:

Forgive me, I have not read the previous 12 pages, but what is the “London BS of race and religion”?

The vast majority in this nation are sick and tired of hearing about racial hatred and division between religions that emanate from London, and other large cities, as regularly broadcast by the press and in other media. The OP has asked a question based on religion that never enters the mind of most voters in this country, and so it shouldn't, unless we are bent on a backwards evolution of political deliberation.

Do you deny it?

[scenario8]

pequod said:

scenario8 said:

Forgive me, I have not read the previous 12 pages, but what is the “London BS of race and religion”?

The vast majority in this nation are sick and tired of hearing about racial hatred and division between religions that emanate from London, and other large cities, as regularly broadcast by the press and in other media. The OP has asked a question based on religion that never enters the mind of most voters in this country, and so it shouldn't, unless we are bent on a backwards evolution of political deliberation.

Do you deny it?

Do I deny the vast majority <snip>. I’ve no idea, frankly. I haven’t put great thought to it. I hope not. More to the point, though, I simply didn’t know what you meant. Thanks for expanding a little.

Glad to hear whatever it is isn’t exclusively a London thing, though.

[Keoparakolo]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Keoparakolo said:

LibDems - as a party they have no racist issues, there may be the odd idiot, but that isn’t endemic through the party. Their policies are reasonable. You Amy not like them, but they are reasonable

Who want to ignore the biggest democratic mandate in British political history. Very reasonable.

Keoparakolo said:

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist. Again, their policies might not be to your liking

In Scotland when the OP is in London. My definition of reasonable would also exclude breaking up the UK.

I also dare say that if the English were as jumpy about racism as some groups then you could find a few "racist" SNP members.

Keoparakolo said:

Greens - pretty much a bunch of treehuggers, but have reasonable policies, not that the vast majority agree with them all.

Lib Dems who as well as wanting to ignore the referendum result want to ban cars by next Tuesday afternoon.

Keoparakolo said:

Independent candidates - some of them are Ok, some less so. They may well have great policies for their local seat

I'd be interested to hear what you think makes a reasonable candidate. I suspect we would disagree.

Keoparakolo said:

, or spoil his paper if none of the above work for his views.

It’s not difficult to “guess” that your reaction will be “but, but, but Brexit” and that is the problem here. Brexit may well be what many want, but it has become an enabler for some to vocalise their inbuilt prejudices. The referendum has polarised views and sadly created a position where people are so obsessed that they will forgive anything to deliver what they want. Johnson’s recent failure to condemn Tommy Robinson’s endorsement of him smacks of `trump failing to criticise the `white `supremacists in Charlottesville.

You mean the indignant reaction of the permanently indignant is the same?


I'm not a Muslim so I can't be sure how I would view the Tories if I was, but for a party of the right it's hardly surprising if a few of it's 190,000 members have some odd views, especially on Islam which with the best will in the world has come up for all the wrong reasons in the last few years.

Conversely they have a Muslim Chancellor, an Indian Hindu (I think?) Home Secretary and a Chairman who is half African. And Boris himself had a Muslim grandfather. It is not a fundamentally racist party, and if the worst Islamophobia anyone can find in Boris Johnson is likening the full face veil to a letterbox then it is pathetic.

The same joke was made on Have I Got News For You and nobody batted an eyelid. Polly Toynbee called the veil "a public tarring and feathering of female sexuality." She also declared there was no such thing as Islamophobia, in the Guardian.

https://order-order.com/2018/08/10/bbc-guardian-al...

Yes of course there are a few racists in the Tory party and a few more who support them. They don't define the party by any stretch of the imagination, however hard a few people try to make it so.

Moreover if you want anything approaching a free market, fiscally responsible party which might just trim back some of the worst excesses of the state then they are the only show in town. If you let a few silly comments by some obscure councillors who have since been suspended put you off then all you will achieve is letting in a genuinely racist party who want the exact opposite of those things.

Your replies to each of the parties is as predicted “but, but, but Brexit”, so no point engaging in that.

The Tory Party is embroiled in some fairly nasty racial issues. They suspended 15 serving and 10 former councillors last week. Nobody wants to even acknowledge that, let alone accept / discuss it. Sajid Javid is a lapsed Muslim by his own admission, but he was the one calling for the investigation that all leadership candidates agreed to, that’s now been shelved.

Nobody is saying it defines the party, but it does make it nigh on impossible for a Muslim to vote for them, just as it should be impossible for a Jew to vote for Labour. Boris failing to denounce a Tommy Robinson’s support for him speaks volumes. Win at all costs? White supremacists are good guys really?

It’s pathetic that many on here find it impossible to accept that their preferred party / candidate has any flaws at all.

[gizlaroc]

I see Swinson said at CBI that she would not be helping Labour as she said the fear from the Jewish people she met this week meant she simply couldn't.

[s1962a]

Rare said:

bhstewie said:

By coincidence this was one the front page of the Guardian.

Muslim voters could swing 31 marginal seats, research finds

What a nonsense article by a nonsense paper.

Do Muslims really vote en masse??

Surely these people are British why would they be defined as being Muslim as opposed to British ?

Why do they feel they need to stand differently ?
Do Sikhs and Hindus vote en masse or is it only a Muslim thing ?

muslims don't vote en masse.. plenty of opinions, just any other British people. So why did 25 tory members get suspended for anti islamic rhetoric? let people vote for the party that best represents their views, rather than single them out for abuse.

[jeff666]

FazerBoy said:

I don’t really understand the stance of the SNP.

It appears to me that they are saying that once Brexit is delivered they want another Scottish referendum regarding staying in the UK. I presume that if they win that they will attempt to join the EU as an independent nation.

Haven’t they seen all the issues around a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland? What would they propose happens in terms of a border between England and Scotland if they are accepted into the EU as an independent country?

I am pretty sure I read on here they would not qualify to join the EU.

Something to do with not being a net contributor, the last thing the EU needs is another drain on the shrinking money machine.

I do hope that Scotland stay in the UK, a lovely Country that I do hope to get to see one day.

[gizlaroc]

jeff666 said:

I do hope that Scotland stay in the UK, a lovely Country that I do hope to get to see one day.

You do realise that if they leave it won't stop you from visiting?


I love Scotland, but they don't like us, so I don't bother going any more.

[jeff666]

gizlaroc said:

You do realise that if they leave it won't stop you from visiting?


I love Scotland, but they don't like us, so I don't bother going any more.

Err yeah of course

As for them not liking us where is your proof of this ? stay as part of the UK won the last vote so I think you are quite wide of the mark really.