A few questions on EV's
Discussion
Hi all,
I have a course next week on learning about electric vehicles so that i can deliver eco/electric driving lessons for a council.
I will be learning with a Nissan leaf, and I understand the council will have a fleet of them.
I was fortunate about 2/3 years ago to drive a Tesla for about 40 minutes, and was blown away by it's performance and comfort. I liked the way it accelerated on the "go" pedal, and was very surprised how quickly it decelerated when you eased off the "go " pedal.....I liked it. However seeing that it was way out of my price range I didn't ask the questions I would normally. I just enjoyed the experience offered to me.
I have had a read of a few of the threads in this area and have the following questions
7KW of charging appears to be the normal, so how long does the average EV take to recharge?
When you talk of having the heater on, do the cars have variable temperatures like my mini does with "climate control"? (I would have thought you do) I have seen in one of the threads that the range is reduced by a considerable amount by having a heater on....is it the same when you have A/C on to keep you cool in the summer?
When you talk of "preconditioning" and "Climate" are you talking about setting a timer so that you can warm the battery and car up before setting off?
If this is the case why does it not do so automatically if it is on a trickle charge as I would imagine that the process of charging/trickle charge would already be keeping the batteries to a decent working temperature?
What is "ICE", "BEV", IMHO"?
I have seen comments on adjusting "regeneration" and "recirculation" what are these? and what is the difference?
Most of you are already converts as I have seen,but, these are very expensive vehicles for a limited range. All cars have compromises, and we buy what will suit us for our daily requirements. I use my current car a Mini 1 diesel which has an 8 gallon tank which i get about 400 miles out of every 3 days, and I tend to fill it up when the reserve light comes on at about 109 miles,(500 if i ran it to empty) so a great range (considering that is every 3 or 4 days or so driven hard doing mostly town work with novice drivers) this equates to about £70 a week in fuel giving me a range of 800-1000 miles
If an electric car did those miles how much time would I be having to wait whilst it charged up during the day? and what in electricity would it cost me?
I am not sure in my line of work I could afford to buy such an expensive car, off setting the cost of fuel....however I am willing to be persuaded.
I believe that with the war against motor vehicles about to get bloody that in the next 5 to 10 years more than half the vehicles sold new will be hybrid/EV.
In my line of work that will mean many more/most new drivers in that time frame will be learning in these vehicles and we will have a new generation of people only holding "auto" licences.
This is going to cause a problem in that many EV's have a warranty on batteries that is about 8 years or 100k miles which ever comes first. Since most learners buy second hand cars which may be over 8 to 10 years old this is going to be a lottery for them buying a car with a shagged battery pack....how expensive are they to replace?
If an EV has a shunt, does it take much to damage the battery pack, and therefore making these cars very very expensive to repair?
I am looking forward to some answers, and the pros and cons of the EV "Gangzoom" appears to be honest in his take on these cars. a couple of others have also said they have a second car for "longer" journeys as lets face it, if someone came to visit me and said "where do i plug my car in?" i would not be over impressed, because on going back to visit them they wouldn't be over impressed if I said "I have just spent £10 in diesel coming here" and held my hand out.
I have a course next week on learning about electric vehicles so that i can deliver eco/electric driving lessons for a council.
I will be learning with a Nissan leaf, and I understand the council will have a fleet of them.
I was fortunate about 2/3 years ago to drive a Tesla for about 40 minutes, and was blown away by it's performance and comfort. I liked the way it accelerated on the "go" pedal, and was very surprised how quickly it decelerated when you eased off the "go " pedal.....I liked it. However seeing that it was way out of my price range I didn't ask the questions I would normally. I just enjoyed the experience offered to me.
I have had a read of a few of the threads in this area and have the following questions
7KW of charging appears to be the normal, so how long does the average EV take to recharge?
When you talk of having the heater on, do the cars have variable temperatures like my mini does with "climate control"? (I would have thought you do) I have seen in one of the threads that the range is reduced by a considerable amount by having a heater on....is it the same when you have A/C on to keep you cool in the summer?
When you talk of "preconditioning" and "Climate" are you talking about setting a timer so that you can warm the battery and car up before setting off?
If this is the case why does it not do so automatically if it is on a trickle charge as I would imagine that the process of charging/trickle charge would already be keeping the batteries to a decent working temperature?
What is "ICE", "BEV", IMHO"?
I have seen comments on adjusting "regeneration" and "recirculation" what are these? and what is the difference?
Most of you are already converts as I have seen,but, these are very expensive vehicles for a limited range. All cars have compromises, and we buy what will suit us for our daily requirements. I use my current car a Mini 1 diesel which has an 8 gallon tank which i get about 400 miles out of every 3 days, and I tend to fill it up when the reserve light comes on at about 109 miles,(500 if i ran it to empty) so a great range (considering that is every 3 or 4 days or so driven hard doing mostly town work with novice drivers) this equates to about £70 a week in fuel giving me a range of 800-1000 miles
If an electric car did those miles how much time would I be having to wait whilst it charged up during the day? and what in electricity would it cost me?
I am not sure in my line of work I could afford to buy such an expensive car, off setting the cost of fuel....however I am willing to be persuaded.
I believe that with the war against motor vehicles about to get bloody that in the next 5 to 10 years more than half the vehicles sold new will be hybrid/EV.
In my line of work that will mean many more/most new drivers in that time frame will be learning in these vehicles and we will have a new generation of people only holding "auto" licences.
This is going to cause a problem in that many EV's have a warranty on batteries that is about 8 years or 100k miles which ever comes first. Since most learners buy second hand cars which may be over 8 to 10 years old this is going to be a lottery for them buying a car with a shagged battery pack....how expensive are they to replace?
If an EV has a shunt, does it take much to damage the battery pack, and therefore making these cars very very expensive to repair?
I am looking forward to some answers, and the pros and cons of the EV "Gangzoom" appears to be honest in his take on these cars. a couple of others have also said they have a second car for "longer" journeys as lets face it, if someone came to visit me and said "where do i plug my car in?" i would not be over impressed, because on going back to visit them they wouldn't be over impressed if I said "I have just spent £10 in diesel coming here" and held my hand out.
7KW of charging appears to be the normal, so how long does the average EV take to recharge?
-Depends how empty you are. The idea is to charge nightly so you’re topping up what you’ve used rather than empty to full. But an empty to full charge at 7kw on a 40kwh car would take about 6 hours
-An explanation of the basics here, aimed at Tesla but the principals are the same for all, it also explains why some use kwh and others use Ah to state battery capacity.
https://tesla-info.com/charging.php
When you talk of having the heater on, do the cars have variable temperatures like my mini does with "climate control"? (I would have thought you do) I have seen in one of the threads that the range is reduced by a considerable amount by having a heater on....is it the same when you have A/C on to keep you cool in the summer?
-Correct. Cars have cabin heaters and some have battery heaters. Cabin heaters can get more complicated with heat pumps etc but in essence the car needs to create heat unlike an ice which has a big hot engine block it can tap into to get heat like an ICE. A cabin heater and battery heater can use a lot of energy to get up to temperature, it depends on what the car has, how big, how cold etc.
When you talk of "preconditioning" and "Climate" are you talking about setting a timer so that you can warm the battery and car up before setting off?
-Different ways to do it, but essentially it’s turning the heaters on before leaving, as well as the car being warm when you get in, if the car is plugged in it can usually take the required energy from the chargepoint leaving the battery full for the journey.
If this is the case why does it not do so automatically if it is on a trickle charge as I would imagine that the process of charging/trickle charge would already be keeping the batteries to a decent working temperature?
-The warming of the battery from charging is fairly low, and the cars don’t trickle charge. They tend to adopt a hysteresis type charging approach of charge to say 100% and when it drops to 95% charge back up to 100%. A trickle charge would generate next to no heat.
-Precondition is as much about the cabin as anything, on a Tesla you can’t manually control the battery heater (not quite true but for preconditioning it is). Don't know about a leaf, not sure it even has a battery heater
What is "ICE", "BEV", IMHO"?
-Internal combustion engine
-Battery electric vehicle
-In my humble opinion
-Phev = Petrol hybrid electric vehicle
-Rex (bmw i3) = range extender (Petrol engine that will charge the battery)
I have seen comments on adjusting "regeneration" and "recirculation" what are these? and what is the difference?
-Regen is how much the motors work backwards as generators charging the battery while slowing the car down. The downside to high regen from a slowing point of view is that off throttle results in quite strong braking and if you wanted to slow down more slowly you have to keep your foot on the accelerator to reduce the regen. The degree of braking can be so strong the car will actually put the brake lights on.
Most of you are already converts as I have seen,but, these are very expensive vehicles for a limited range. All cars have compromises, and we buy what will suit us for our daily requirements. I use my current car a Mini 1 diesel which has an 8 gallon tank which i get about 400 miles out of every 3 days, and I tend to fill it up when the reserve light comes on at about 109 miles,(500 if i ran it to empty) so a great range (considering that is every 3 or 4 days or so driven hard doing mostly town work with novice drivers) this equates to about £70 a week in fuel giving me a range of 800-1000 miles
- Electric is about 1/4 the price when charging at home, but rather than fill up every 3-4 days, you plug in each night so start every day full. It becomes more of an issue if you’re staying away at hotels although increasingly they have chargers you can use
If an electric car did those miles how much time would I be having to wait whilst it charged up during the day? and what in electricity would it cost me?
-See above
I am not sure in my line of work I could afford to buy such an expensive car, off setting the cost of fuel....however I am willing to be persuaded.
- As a company car from next year there’s no benefit in kind so the cost effectively comes out of pretax income. (The cost goes up to 1% then 2% over the following 2 years, but pretty small).
I believe that with the war against motor vehicles about to get bloody that in the next 5 to 10 years more than half the vehicles sold new will be hybrid/EV.
In my line of work that will mean many more/most new drivers in that time frame will be learning in these vehicles and we will have a new generation of people only holding "auto" licences.
This is going to cause a problem in that many EV's have a warranty on batteries that is about 8 years or 100k miles which ever comes first. Since most learners buy second hand cars which may be over 8 to 10 years old this is going to be a lottery for them buying a car with a shagged battery pack....how expensive are they to replace?
- Do they not worry about not having warranty on an engine in case it goes bust? Same problem. 6-8 year old EVs today are from an era of small batteries but the tech and cost has improved since and will continue to do so. Most EVs have 8 year warranties on the battery and I suspect that even buying a 4 year old EV like a BMW i3 (for around £16k and depreciations more than offset by the lower fuel costs)) by the time the warranty runs out there will be a market of reconditioned batteries.
If an EV has a shunt, does it take much to damage the battery pack, and therefore making these cars very very expensive to repair?
- The repair cost can be high but it’s more down to the extra training, that said it’s becoming more sensible. My insurance doesn’t seem high considering I drive a can that can accelerate to 70 in under 3 seconds.
I am looking forward to some answers, and the pros and cons of the EV "Gangzoom" appears to be honest in his take on these cars. a couple of others have also said they have a second car for "longer" journeys as lets face it, if someone came to visit me and said "where do i plug my car in?" i would not be over impressed, because on going back to visit them they wouldn't be over impressed if I said "I have just spent £10 in diesel coming here" and held my hand out.
- Glad you’re not my friend as all mine have been fine letting me charge. It’s never going to £10 as that’s 80kwh of electricity or so and on a 3pin plug would take 2 days to deliver. An overnight top up is likely to be only £2-£3
If you're looking to tell people how to drive efficiently you need to do a lot more homework - preheating at home uses more electrcitiy than than heating on the move, it just comes driectly from the mains rather than via the battery, but preheat the car and then not use it straight away and its already started to cool, one foot driving is all about maximising regen and trying to be slow and steady, speed is a demon on an EV like all cars I guess but the higher efficiency of an EV means any inefficiency is magnified, cabin heaters on high can use up to 6kw, prbably more like 2kw in the cold once up to temperature, at 40mph thats adding 50wh/m to the consumption rate of the car, an the EVs you're talking about are nearer 200wh/m to drive at 40mph so thats 25% of all the energy consumption just in heating etc
-Depends how empty you are. The idea is to charge nightly so you’re topping up what you’ve used rather than empty to full. But an empty to full charge at 7kw on a 40kwh car would take about 6 hours
-An explanation of the basics here, aimed at Tesla but the principals are the same for all, it also explains why some use kwh and others use Ah to state battery capacity.
https://tesla-info.com/charging.php
When you talk of having the heater on, do the cars have variable temperatures like my mini does with "climate control"? (I would have thought you do) I have seen in one of the threads that the range is reduced by a considerable amount by having a heater on....is it the same when you have A/C on to keep you cool in the summer?
-Correct. Cars have cabin heaters and some have battery heaters. Cabin heaters can get more complicated with heat pumps etc but in essence the car needs to create heat unlike an ice which has a big hot engine block it can tap into to get heat like an ICE. A cabin heater and battery heater can use a lot of energy to get up to temperature, it depends on what the car has, how big, how cold etc.
When you talk of "preconditioning" and "Climate" are you talking about setting a timer so that you can warm the battery and car up before setting off?
-Different ways to do it, but essentially it’s turning the heaters on before leaving, as well as the car being warm when you get in, if the car is plugged in it can usually take the required energy from the chargepoint leaving the battery full for the journey.
If this is the case why does it not do so automatically if it is on a trickle charge as I would imagine that the process of charging/trickle charge would already be keeping the batteries to a decent working temperature?
-The warming of the battery from charging is fairly low, and the cars don’t trickle charge. They tend to adopt a hysteresis type charging approach of charge to say 100% and when it drops to 95% charge back up to 100%. A trickle charge would generate next to no heat.
-Precondition is as much about the cabin as anything, on a Tesla you can’t manually control the battery heater (not quite true but for preconditioning it is). Don't know about a leaf, not sure it even has a battery heater
What is "ICE", "BEV", IMHO"?
-Internal combustion engine
-Battery electric vehicle
-In my humble opinion
-Phev = Petrol hybrid electric vehicle
-Rex (bmw i3) = range extender (Petrol engine that will charge the battery)
I have seen comments on adjusting "regeneration" and "recirculation" what are these? and what is the difference?
-Regen is how much the motors work backwards as generators charging the battery while slowing the car down. The downside to high regen from a slowing point of view is that off throttle results in quite strong braking and if you wanted to slow down more slowly you have to keep your foot on the accelerator to reduce the regen. The degree of braking can be so strong the car will actually put the brake lights on.
Most of you are already converts as I have seen,but, these are very expensive vehicles for a limited range. All cars have compromises, and we buy what will suit us for our daily requirements. I use my current car a Mini 1 diesel which has an 8 gallon tank which i get about 400 miles out of every 3 days, and I tend to fill it up when the reserve light comes on at about 109 miles,(500 if i ran it to empty) so a great range (considering that is every 3 or 4 days or so driven hard doing mostly town work with novice drivers) this equates to about £70 a week in fuel giving me a range of 800-1000 miles
- Electric is about 1/4 the price when charging at home, but rather than fill up every 3-4 days, you plug in each night so start every day full. It becomes more of an issue if you’re staying away at hotels although increasingly they have chargers you can use
If an electric car did those miles how much time would I be having to wait whilst it charged up during the day? and what in electricity would it cost me?
-See above
I am not sure in my line of work I could afford to buy such an expensive car, off setting the cost of fuel....however I am willing to be persuaded.
- As a company car from next year there’s no benefit in kind so the cost effectively comes out of pretax income. (The cost goes up to 1% then 2% over the following 2 years, but pretty small).
I believe that with the war against motor vehicles about to get bloody that in the next 5 to 10 years more than half the vehicles sold new will be hybrid/EV.
In my line of work that will mean many more/most new drivers in that time frame will be learning in these vehicles and we will have a new generation of people only holding "auto" licences.
This is going to cause a problem in that many EV's have a warranty on batteries that is about 8 years or 100k miles which ever comes first. Since most learners buy second hand cars which may be over 8 to 10 years old this is going to be a lottery for them buying a car with a shagged battery pack....how expensive are they to replace?
- Do they not worry about not having warranty on an engine in case it goes bust? Same problem. 6-8 year old EVs today are from an era of small batteries but the tech and cost has improved since and will continue to do so. Most EVs have 8 year warranties on the battery and I suspect that even buying a 4 year old EV like a BMW i3 (for around £16k and depreciations more than offset by the lower fuel costs)) by the time the warranty runs out there will be a market of reconditioned batteries.
If an EV has a shunt, does it take much to damage the battery pack, and therefore making these cars very very expensive to repair?
- The repair cost can be high but it’s more down to the extra training, that said it’s becoming more sensible. My insurance doesn’t seem high considering I drive a can that can accelerate to 70 in under 3 seconds.
I am looking forward to some answers, and the pros and cons of the EV "Gangzoom" appears to be honest in his take on these cars. a couple of others have also said they have a second car for "longer" journeys as lets face it, if someone came to visit me and said "where do i plug my car in?" i would not be over impressed, because on going back to visit them they wouldn't be over impressed if I said "I have just spent £10 in diesel coming here" and held my hand out.
- Glad you’re not my friend as all mine have been fine letting me charge. It’s never going to £10 as that’s 80kwh of electricity or so and on a 3pin plug would take 2 days to deliver. An overnight top up is likely to be only £2-£3
If you're looking to tell people how to drive efficiently you need to do a lot more homework - preheating at home uses more electrcitiy than than heating on the move, it just comes driectly from the mains rather than via the battery, but preheat the car and then not use it straight away and its already started to cool, one foot driving is all about maximising regen and trying to be slow and steady, speed is a demon on an EV like all cars I guess but the higher efficiency of an EV means any inefficiency is magnified, cabin heaters on high can use up to 6kw, prbably more like 2kw in the cold once up to temperature, at 40mph thats adding 50wh/m to the consumption rate of the car, an the EVs you're talking about are nearer 200wh/m to drive at 40mph so thats 25% of all the energy consumption just in heating etc
Edited by Heres Johnny on Wednesday 4th December 09:34
Many thanks for taking the time to reply "Here's Johnny" 
cheers
Thanks for the link MR B
Jamoor..... It's that kind of attitude that earns me a living. I have been delivering driver training for a few years, and when employed to deliver "ECO" driving training often get the attitude "I have been driving for 10, 20, 30, 40 years....WTF can you tell me?" comments ....well surprisingly a fair bit
Most of my "eco" sessions on average after some "coaching" save about 22% on their fuel economy. That is just for an hour of their time, running around a short route of between 4 to 6 miles depending on the area where for the first run I just watch what they are doing. then a debrief which many find uncomfortable as their poor driving skills are diplomatically pointed out to them. We then run the same route with me "guiding" them around.
The car computer is reset, we record the time taken to get around, average speed, and fuel consumption. on doing hundreds of these on just about every single occasion they have got around the route in less time, at a higher average speed and saved fuel . Result
There have been so many, i forget most, but one taxi driver i took out in Portsmouth couldn't believe that if he drove the way I suggested not only was he getting about quicker, he was more relaxed, aware, safer (for him and other road users), causing less wear and tear on his vehicle and could save about £2600 a year on fuel. the guy was almost in tears saying that on those savings he could afford to take his family on holiday later in the year.
I see no reason why "eco safe" driving skills can not be used in "EV"'s to extend battery life as well.
cheers James
cheersThanks for the link MR B
Jamoor..... It's that kind of attitude that earns me a living. I have been delivering driver training for a few years, and when employed to deliver "ECO" driving training often get the attitude "I have been driving for 10, 20, 30, 40 years....WTF can you tell me?" comments ....well surprisingly a fair bit
Most of my "eco" sessions on average after some "coaching" save about 22% on their fuel economy. That is just for an hour of their time, running around a short route of between 4 to 6 miles depending on the area where for the first run I just watch what they are doing. then a debrief which many find uncomfortable as their poor driving skills are diplomatically pointed out to them. We then run the same route with me "guiding" them around.
The car computer is reset, we record the time taken to get around, average speed, and fuel consumption. on doing hundreds of these on just about every single occasion they have got around the route in less time, at a higher average speed and saved fuel . Result
There have been so many, i forget most, but one taxi driver i took out in Portsmouth couldn't believe that if he drove the way I suggested not only was he getting about quicker, he was more relaxed, aware, safer (for him and other road users), causing less wear and tear on his vehicle and could save about £2600 a year on fuel. the guy was almost in tears saying that on those savings he could afford to take his family on holiday later in the year.
I see no reason why "eco safe" driving skills can not be used in "EV"'s to extend battery life as well.
cheers James
watchnut said:
Many thanks for taking the time to reply "Here's Johnny" cheers
Thanks for the link MR B
Jamoor..... It's that kind of attitude that earns me a living. I have been delivering driver training for a few years, and when employed to deliver "ECO" driving training often get the attitude "I have been driving for 10, 20, 30, 40 years....WTF can you tell me?" comments ....well surprisingly a fair bit
Most of my "eco" sessions on average after some "coaching" save about 22% on their fuel economy. That is just for an hour of their time, running around a short route of between 4 to 6 miles depending on the area where for the first run I just watch what they are doing. then a debrief which many find uncomfortable as their poor driving skills are diplomatically pointed out to them. We then run the same route with me "guiding" them around.
The car computer is reset, we record the time taken to get around, average speed, and fuel consumption. on doing hundreds of these on just about every single occasion they have got around the route in less time, at a higher average speed and saved fuel . Result
There have been so many, i forget most, but one taxi driver i took out in Portsmouth couldn't believe that if he drove the way I suggested not only was he getting about quicker, he was more relaxed, aware, safer (for him and other road users), causing less wear and tear on his vehicle and could save about £2600 a year on fuel. the guy was almost in tears saying that on those savings he could afford to take his family on holiday later in the year.
I see no reason why "eco safe" driving skills can not be used in "EV"'s to extend battery life as well.
cheers James
That's another thing, driving an EV you can chuck fuel economy out the window. cheersThanks for the link MR B
Jamoor..... It's that kind of attitude that earns me a living. I have been delivering driver training for a few years, and when employed to deliver "ECO" driving training often get the attitude "I have been driving for 10, 20, 30, 40 years....WTF can you tell me?" comments ....well surprisingly a fair bit
Most of my "eco" sessions on average after some "coaching" save about 22% on their fuel economy. That is just for an hour of their time, running around a short route of between 4 to 6 miles depending on the area where for the first run I just watch what they are doing. then a debrief which many find uncomfortable as their poor driving skills are diplomatically pointed out to them. We then run the same route with me "guiding" them around.
The car computer is reset, we record the time taken to get around, average speed, and fuel consumption. on doing hundreds of these on just about every single occasion they have got around the route in less time, at a higher average speed and saved fuel . Result
There have been so many, i forget most, but one taxi driver i took out in Portsmouth couldn't believe that if he drove the way I suggested not only was he getting about quicker, he was more relaxed, aware, safer (for him and other road users), causing less wear and tear on his vehicle and could save about £2600 a year on fuel. the guy was almost in tears saying that on those savings he could afford to take his family on holiday later in the year.
I see no reason why "eco safe" driving skills can not be used in "EV"'s to extend battery life as well.
cheers James
If your car does 30mpg and you do 100 miles, it has cost you £19.70
If driving with no regard for economy causes you to use 25% more fuel it will cost you £24.65 for the same journey, extrapolate that over 10k its an additional £500 a year.
For an electric car.. it will cost you £4 for 100 miles. if we add 25% more electricity to that we are looking at £5. Extrapolate that over 10k then its £400 to £500, which is £100 more. The numbers involved are alot smaller.
watchnut said:
Many thanks for taking the time to reply "Here's Johnny" cheers
Thanks for the link MR B
Jamoor..... It's that kind of attitude that earns me a living. I have been delivering driver training for a few years, and when employed to deliver "ECO" driving training often get the attitude "I have been driving for 10, 20, 30, 40 years....WTF can you tell me?" comments ....well surprisingly a fair bit
Most of my "eco" sessions on average after some "coaching" save about 22% on their fuel economy. That is just for an hour of their time, running around a short route of between 4 to 6 miles depending on the area where for the first run I just watch what they are doing. then a debrief which many find uncomfortable as their poor driving skills are diplomatically pointed out to them. We then run the same route with me "guiding" them around.
The car computer is reset, we record the time taken to get around, average speed, and fuel consumption. on doing hundreds of these on just about every single occasion they have got around the route in less time, at a higher average speed and saved fuel . Result
There have been so many, i forget most, but one taxi driver i took out in Portsmouth couldn't believe that if he drove the way I suggested not only was he getting about quicker, he was more relaxed, aware, safer (for him and other road users), causing less wear and tear on his vehicle and could save about £2600 a year on fuel. the guy was almost in tears saying that on those savings he could afford to take his family on holiday later in the year.
I see no reason why "eco safe" driving skills can not be used in "EV"'s to extend battery life as well.
cheers James
Really? Yet you have to go on an Internet forum to ‘learn’ about what you’ll be teaching? cheersThanks for the link MR B
Jamoor..... It's that kind of attitude that earns me a living. I have been delivering driver training for a few years, and when employed to deliver "ECO" driving training often get the attitude "I have been driving for 10, 20, 30, 40 years....WTF can you tell me?" comments ....well surprisingly a fair bit
Most of my "eco" sessions on average after some "coaching" save about 22% on their fuel economy. That is just for an hour of their time, running around a short route of between 4 to 6 miles depending on the area where for the first run I just watch what they are doing. then a debrief which many find uncomfortable as their poor driving skills are diplomatically pointed out to them. We then run the same route with me "guiding" them around.
The car computer is reset, we record the time taken to get around, average speed, and fuel consumption. on doing hundreds of these on just about every single occasion they have got around the route in less time, at a higher average speed and saved fuel . Result
There have been so many, i forget most, but one taxi driver i took out in Portsmouth couldn't believe that if he drove the way I suggested not only was he getting about quicker, he was more relaxed, aware, safer (for him and other road users), causing less wear and tear on his vehicle and could save about £2600 a year on fuel. the guy was almost in tears saying that on those savings he could afford to take his family on holiday later in the year.
I see no reason why "eco safe" driving skills can not be used in "EV"'s to extend battery life as well.
cheers James
REALIST123 said:
watchnut said:
Many thanks for taking the time to reply "Here's Johnny" cheers
Thanks for the link MR B
Jamoor..... It's that kind of attitude that earns me a living. I have been delivering driver training for a few years, and when employed to deliver "ECO" driving training often get the attitude "I have been driving for 10, 20, 30, 40 years....WTF can you tell me?" comments ....well surprisingly a fair bit
Most of my "eco" sessions on average after some "coaching" save about 22% on their fuel economy. That is just for an hour of their time, running around a short route of between 4 to 6 miles depending on the area where for the first run I just watch what they are doing. then a debrief which many find uncomfortable as their poor driving skills are diplomatically pointed out to them. We then run the same route with me "guiding" them around.
The car computer is reset, we record the time taken to get around, average speed, and fuel consumption. on doing hundreds of these on just about every single occasion they have got around the route in less time, at a higher average speed and saved fuel . Result
There have been so many, i forget most, but one taxi driver i took out in Portsmouth couldn't believe that if he drove the way I suggested not only was he getting about quicker, he was more relaxed, aware, safer (for him and other road users), causing less wear and tear on his vehicle and could save about £2600 a year on fuel. the guy was almost in tears saying that on those savings he could afford to take his family on holiday later in the year.
I see no reason why "eco safe" driving skills can not be used in "EV"'s to extend battery life as well.
cheers James
Really? Yet you have to go on an Internet forum to ‘learn’ about what you’ll be teaching? cheersThanks for the link MR B
Jamoor..... It's that kind of attitude that earns me a living. I have been delivering driver training for a few years, and when employed to deliver "ECO" driving training often get the attitude "I have been driving for 10, 20, 30, 40 years....WTF can you tell me?" comments ....well surprisingly a fair bit
Most of my "eco" sessions on average after some "coaching" save about 22% on their fuel economy. That is just for an hour of their time, running around a short route of between 4 to 6 miles depending on the area where for the first run I just watch what they are doing. then a debrief which many find uncomfortable as their poor driving skills are diplomatically pointed out to them. We then run the same route with me "guiding" them around.
The car computer is reset, we record the time taken to get around, average speed, and fuel consumption. on doing hundreds of these on just about every single occasion they have got around the route in less time, at a higher average speed and saved fuel . Result
There have been so many, i forget most, but one taxi driver i took out in Portsmouth couldn't believe that if he drove the way I suggested not only was he getting about quicker, he was more relaxed, aware, safer (for him and other road users), causing less wear and tear on his vehicle and could save about £2600 a year on fuel. the guy was almost in tears saying that on those savings he could afford to take his family on holiday later in the year.
I see no reason why "eco safe" driving skills can not be used in "EV"'s to extend battery life as well.
cheers James
jamoor said:
That's another thing, driving an EV you can chuck fuel economy out the window.
If your car does 30mpg and you do 100 miles, it has cost you £19.70
If driving with no regard for economy causes you to use 25% more fuel it will cost you £24.65 for the same journey, extrapolate that over 10k its an additional £500 a year.
For an electric car.. it will cost you £4 for 100 miles. if we add 25% more electricity to that we are looking at £5. Extrapolate that over 10k then its £400 to £500, which is £100 more. The numbers involved are alot smaller.
All very well but you might want to drive economically so you can actually get home and charge with minimum inconvenience.If your car does 30mpg and you do 100 miles, it has cost you £19.70
If driving with no regard for economy causes you to use 25% more fuel it will cost you £24.65 for the same journey, extrapolate that over 10k its an additional £500 a year.
For an electric car.. it will cost you £4 for 100 miles. if we add 25% more electricity to that we are looking at £5. Extrapolate that over 10k then its £400 to £500, which is £100 more. The numbers involved are alot smaller.
Sure, I don't really think of economy on a short trip, I never have really, but if you've 200 miles to go you might manage it a bit more carefully.
watchnut said:
shows how ignorant you are, I came on here to ask a few questions BEFORE I did the training so once trained i can then train stupid people like yourself
It is funny though, coming onto the internet forum to find out about stuff to train about although it's a perfectly valid place to get information.
M1C said:
The OPs retalliation was understandable.
He came on here to ask some reasonable questions and has been met with the usual 'w
kerish' PH response.
I don't condone some of the responses but it does beg the question that someone expecting to train others has so little information there is a real risk that a little knowledge will propogate a lot of misinformation. In a few weeks the OP wil be the expert training others and a simple question could get answered really badly. What if someone asks about safety, driving through water, skinny tyres that seem to be on most EVs. charging in the rain, what happens if you run out of eectricity, what happens when you run low as some start throwing up warnings, can you jump start another car from an electrric car, what maintenance do you need to do, why is it cold in an EV, how do you use a public charger, what networks should we use...He came on here to ask some reasonable questions and has been met with the usual 'w
kerish' PH response.You also only need some one to start asking questions about a daily mail article that said EVs were more harmful than diesels or that on top gear they saw they only had a range of 40 miles.
Its good someone ants to train others, but you almost need a convert to be in the room to get past a lot of the comments bit like schools sometimes take in reformed drug dealers as its more plasuble than just the teaher saying.. but as we've little to go on in terms of the situation I offered a fairly fulsome answer already
The real difference is that the energy consumption of an EV is really only proportional to the average speed at which you travel in that EV.
With an ICE vehicle, you have gears and friction brakes, so operating those effectivily makes a big difference. With an EV, as long as you stay away from the friction brakes (ie just use regen) the intrinsic bi-directionality of the powertrain means accelerating and then "braking" only "wastes" 25% of the energy by comparison. (because the regen captures around 75%) As such, driving poorly or aggresively (ie lots of changes in speed) is really not that much of a penalty.
And because there is no powertrain to warm up, short journeys aren't much of a penalty, and there are no gears to get "wrong" and so you can't waste fuel by being in the wrong gear either.
The thing you can't avoid is drag. All cars have drag, and the faster you drive, the more there is of it. So the consumption of your EV is primarily determined simply by how fast, on average, you drive!
With an ICE vehicle, you have gears and friction brakes, so operating those effectivily makes a big difference. With an EV, as long as you stay away from the friction brakes (ie just use regen) the intrinsic bi-directionality of the powertrain means accelerating and then "braking" only "wastes" 25% of the energy by comparison. (because the regen captures around 75%) As such, driving poorly or aggresively (ie lots of changes in speed) is really not that much of a penalty.
And because there is no powertrain to warm up, short journeys aren't much of a penalty, and there are no gears to get "wrong" and so you can't waste fuel by being in the wrong gear either.
The thing you can't avoid is drag. All cars have drag, and the faster you drive, the more there is of it. So the consumption of your EV is primarily determined simply by how fast, on average, you drive!
I came onto this area to find out a bit about Ev's BEFORE i go on my course, where I expect I shall be given the training to become a "trainer".
That is how we all get on in whatever field we work in. I have extensive experience as first a driving instructor, and in the last few years as a "fleet" registered driving instructor delivering advanced/eco safe/assessed drives for people at work who will be thrown the keys to a car/van for a living. Some of the "assessed" drives I have conducted over the years are also to check the standard of drivers who wish to become Taxi drivers under the umbrella of their local councils
I find it rather sad that when I came on here to ask those that have and use these cars are so unwilling to help someone gain a little knowledge. If you don't want to give some of your vast experience on driving these sorts of cars, then fine. But slagging me off for asking a few questions makes you look ignorant. If you can't think of constructive helpful things to say, then don't bother saying anything, it makes people not want to share and ask "stuff"
Just because most of us passed a basic driving test years ago, does not make you a "good" driver now. Continuous learning does, some times from people like me, sometimes info gained from forums like this. Shame some didn't read what I first said in that I want to learn a little "BEFORE" i went into training. I expect those are also some of the people that don't actually read the cars' manual before driving it away?
Many thanks for the useful answers I have had, much appreciated for your time. Cheers
That is how we all get on in whatever field we work in. I have extensive experience as first a driving instructor, and in the last few years as a "fleet" registered driving instructor delivering advanced/eco safe/assessed drives for people at work who will be thrown the keys to a car/van for a living. Some of the "assessed" drives I have conducted over the years are also to check the standard of drivers who wish to become Taxi drivers under the umbrella of their local councils
I find it rather sad that when I came on here to ask those that have and use these cars are so unwilling to help someone gain a little knowledge. If you don't want to give some of your vast experience on driving these sorts of cars, then fine. But slagging me off for asking a few questions makes you look ignorant. If you can't think of constructive helpful things to say, then don't bother saying anything, it makes people not want to share and ask "stuff"
Just because most of us passed a basic driving test years ago, does not make you a "good" driver now. Continuous learning does, some times from people like me, sometimes info gained from forums like this. Shame some didn't read what I first said in that I want to learn a little "BEFORE" i went into training. I expect those are also some of the people that don't actually read the cars' manual before driving it away?
Many thanks for the useful answers I have had, much appreciated for your time. Cheers
Max_Torque said:
And because there is no powertrain to warm up, short journeys aren't much of a penalty, and there are no gears to get "wrong" and so you can't waste fuel by being in the wrong gear either.
So the consumption of your EV is primarily determined simply by how fast, on average, you drive!
You sure about the above?So the consumption of your EV is primarily determined simply by how fast, on average, you drive!
Cold EV power train consumes much more energy!
Short journeys are a massive penalty, and the colder the power train the biggest the penalty.
Consumption is also affected by effective use of Regan, so coaching of all this plus more will have a massive impact on consumption.
Surely you know all this?
manracer said:
You sure about the above?
Cold EV power train consumes much more energy!
Short journeys are a massive penalty, and the colder the power train the biggest the penalty.
Consumption is also affected by effective use of Regan, so coaching of all this plus more will have a massive impact on consumption.
Surely you know all this?
Once you get to temperature below around 3degC (or above around 35 degC) then yes, there is an additional battery conditioning requirement, that CONSUMES more energy (although thanks to the low specific heat and thermal impedance of batteries that energy is actually fairly small) but an EV powertrain gets MORE efficient the colder it is, because the resistance of the conductors falls with temperature!Cold EV power train consumes much more energy!
Short journeys are a massive penalty, and the colder the power train the biggest the penalty.
Consumption is also affected by effective use of Regan, so coaching of all this plus more will have a massive impact on consumption.
Surely you know all this?
For a short journey where you clearly don't need much range, then there is no need to heat the battery to the point where max SoC is realised, further minimising consumption.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff