The cost of medicines in the USA and here
Discussion
Halb said:
you arbitrarily chose a number, I'll arbitrarily choose $1,000, like in this article.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/medical-bankruptcy...
You pointed out the old one, so I linked the new one, from much more recently, which you ignore,d because it shows you are 100% wrong, again.
I don’t see the $1,000 number in that article, but I am on my phone out with the dog so could have missed it.https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/medical-bankruptcy...
You pointed out the old one, so I linked the new one, from much more recently, which you ignore,d because it shows you are 100% wrong, again.
The other article you linked didn’t show anything of the sort.
The Moose said:
I don’t see the $1,000 number in that article, but I am on my phone out with the dog so could have missed it.
The other article you linked didn’t show anything of the sort.
OK, then.The other article you linked didn’t show anything of the sort.
The first article is one I have already posted on coverage, and how 15 million cannot afford it. THe other two are on even those with cover, cannot afford the bills. I'm not at home just making stuff up. Hope your dog gets a nice walk.
https://www.statnews.com/2019/07/28/health-system-...
"Independent experts estimate that more than one-half of the roughly 30 million uninsured people in the country are eligible for health insurance through existing programs." Leaving 15 million who cannot afford it.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-many-americans-...
"Levey said that annual deductibles in employer-based health plans have nearly quadrupled in the last 12 years, and now average more than $1,300. However, more than 40% of workers in high-deductible plans lack the savings to cover such an expense. As a result, a significant number of Americans with job-based insurance are cutting back on household spending, delaying doctor’s visits or skipping care entirely.
A new study by the American Cancer Society reinforces the point, finding that most American adults have experienced some kind of hardship related to medical expenses. About 56 percent of Americans aged 18 and older who participated in the 2015–2017 National Health Interview Survey said they had experienced a medical financial hardship in the last year. That translates to roughly 137 million people struggling to pay medical bills, delaying care and/or worrying about how to afford the care they need."
this link talks about those with insurance cannot afford bills
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/...
I got a lovely walk, dog not so much. He loves to play with his buddies at the park, but no one was there tonight. Me on the otherhand, couple of miles around a lake at 75 degrees with little humidity. Perfect evening 
As this article ( https://www.statnews.com/2019/07/28/health-system-... ) says, "The numbers point to a different story, not as dire and more nuanced".
We started at 20% couldn't afford cover, then 10%. The article I linked to above actually states under 4.5%.
Not only that, but the article specifically says "more than one-half of the roughly 30 million uninsured people in the country are eligible for health insurance through existing programs" (my emphasis).
We're talking about less than 15 million people here.
I just very quickly Googled it and this article ( https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/ho... ) says there are between 10.5 and 12 million undocumented/illegal migrants in the country. That number is suspiciously close to "less than 15 million".
Finally, the eligible bit - I don't know exactly who is eligible for coverage and who is not, but I am pretty sure that illegal migrants will not be eligible. Also, what about people who are here on certain types of visa but are not eligible for an ACA plan (e.g. a B-1 temporary business visa) would be "people in the country" but not eligible.
The Yahoo article you linked to specifically shows the problem. People with no savings who have an unexpected expense can't cover it. For the truly poor, there are plenty of options (I think I said earlier in the thread that I understood hospitals to be required to run a financial hardship out of pocket cost write-off program).
The numbers that survey draws conclusions from are approximately 0.02% of the population. It also says they experienced some hardship related to medical expenses. That could be not being able to take their spring break vacation. It doesn't extrapolate to "137 millions people struggling to pay medical bills...".
As I have said, the healthcare system in the USA is not ideal (nor is it in the other one country I have any real experience of - the UK). To me, the problem is not the cost of the deductibles/other expenses, but the fact that that on the whole, the general American population is so screwed up financially. I mean, where else as an 18 year old could would you be allowed to sign an agreement for an unlimited line of credit? Literally unlimited. That starts it all off. Then people are told that as a [insert profession] they deserve a nice car (average payment over $500 per month), a nice home, multiple expensive vacations each year etc etc etc. No emergency fund, no backup, no safety net. That is the worrying thing, to me. Heck, my daughter is 8 months old and we are already saving for college!
As this article ( https://www.statnews.com/2019/07/28/health-system-... ) says, "The numbers point to a different story, not as dire and more nuanced".
We started at 20% couldn't afford cover, then 10%. The article I linked to above actually states under 4.5%.
Not only that, but the article specifically says "more than one-half of the roughly 30 million uninsured people in the country are eligible for health insurance through existing programs" (my emphasis).
We're talking about less than 15 million people here.
I just very quickly Googled it and this article ( https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/ho... ) says there are between 10.5 and 12 million undocumented/illegal migrants in the country. That number is suspiciously close to "less than 15 million".
Finally, the eligible bit - I don't know exactly who is eligible for coverage and who is not, but I am pretty sure that illegal migrants will not be eligible. Also, what about people who are here on certain types of visa but are not eligible for an ACA plan (e.g. a B-1 temporary business visa) would be "people in the country" but not eligible.
The Yahoo article you linked to specifically shows the problem. People with no savings who have an unexpected expense can't cover it. For the truly poor, there are plenty of options (I think I said earlier in the thread that I understood hospitals to be required to run a financial hardship out of pocket cost write-off program).
The numbers that survey draws conclusions from are approximately 0.02% of the population. It also says they experienced some hardship related to medical expenses. That could be not being able to take their spring break vacation. It doesn't extrapolate to "137 millions people struggling to pay medical bills...".
As I have said, the healthcare system in the USA is not ideal (nor is it in the other one country I have any real experience of - the UK). To me, the problem is not the cost of the deductibles/other expenses, but the fact that that on the whole, the general American population is so screwed up financially. I mean, where else as an 18 year old could would you be allowed to sign an agreement for an unlimited line of credit? Literally unlimited. That starts it all off. Then people are told that as a [insert profession] they deserve a nice car (average payment over $500 per month), a nice home, multiple expensive vacations each year etc etc etc. No emergency fund, no backup, no safety net. That is the worrying thing, to me. Heck, my daughter is 8 months old and we are already saving for college!
Edited by The Moose on Monday 9th December 00:15
The Moose said:
Carl_Manchester said:
The Moose said:
Maybe my buddies who do this are not breaking the law if it's just for them - i.e. not mass-importing? I don't know - I'll try to remember to ask next week or the week after.
it is not illegal for individuals to purchase medication cross-border. Many do, especially for insulin.It does not really matter much because these are edge cases percentage wise, the main issue is that the insurers and suppliers all act within a rigged system. Trump needs to find a way of opening up the loop without throwing the Canadian's under the bus. If he can find another country which can supply the volume he needs at the quality the FDA approve of then it will really help not only the people that are suffering in the USA (£1000 pm for insulin per person for what is essentially a generic drug invented by the Canadians) but it may also get money out of the USA and into Canadian and *cough* U.K hands.
This what the major benefit of free trade between large nations is supposed to do, help people day-to-day. The people spending the £1000 per month on insulin, instead of giving it all to a drug company can now spend £900 on goods and services within the USA, which creates wealth and jobs.
BBC article specifically on Insulin costs in the USA is here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-4749196...
One person in the USA was paying $2400 per month for insulin
YOu've certainly made a good case that the amount of people who can't get coverage possibly (probably) lines up with illegals, and there's the problem. THat bit seems to add up.
The other side is though when a person does have cover but then is put into medical debt because of it. The $1,000 dollar amount seems to be the amount which sends people into trouble, and medical debt is a problem inn the US, from the links I was reading when I was looking at who was eligible.
The other side is though when a person does have cover but then is put into medical debt because of it. The $1,000 dollar amount seems to be the amount which sends people into trouble, and medical debt is a problem inn the US, from the links I was reading when I was looking at who was eligible.
Halb said:
The $1,000 dollar amount seems to be the amount which sends people into trouble, and medical debt is a problem inn the US, from the links I was reading when I was looking at who was eligible.
It is.Pretty much every insurance policy has a high or low deductible policy.
Choose the cheaper high deductible policy & guess what? You pay less monthly but more out of pocket.
Let me give you an example of what happens.
My girlfriend's brother is a jobbing builder.
He works when he needs to & likes to take off time to go fishing & drink beer.
He does not have medical insurance.
a) because he doesn't like computers & doesn't like to fill in forms - aka Can't be arsed.
b) he likes to spend his money on a boat, fancy 4x4 to tow the boat, fishing tackle & beer.
One day, he will be one of the sob stories you hear who is bankrupted because he broke his leg.
jamoor said:
I have another question.
What about childbirth, are these covered in insurance as it's not excatly a medical condition.
All medical procedures are covered apart from elective surgery i.e. boob jobs, face lift, winky enlargement etc.What about childbirth, are these covered in insurance as it's not excatly a medical condition.
What your out of pocket payment is for childbirth depends, as ever on your level of coverage.
Lets put this in terms of car insurance.
In the UK you have one insurance provider that you have to pay for fully comp insurance. The money comes straight out of your wage.
In the US, there are many providers and you have the choice to decide on which one and the level of coverage. If you are young and single you are likely to go the equivalent of 3rd party and take on the risk. Being old, or having young kids you will go for the full coverage. But, for both options, high/low risk, there is a cap for how much money you will be out of pocket for the year. The caps are often similar but how you get there is the key. I think for my family the cap is $13k for the year. To get to that point we would have to have had some seriously bad luck as it represents hundreds of thousands of healthcare costs. I am fortunate that I can survive if that happened. Most can't and that one reason there are many bankruptcies associated with health care.
Also, the high prices you often seen for drugs/procedures in the US are the pre-negotiated cost. On your invoice it will say
Limited oral evaluation.
"Fee Charged= $100" ,
"Negotiated Fee = $55".
"Plan benefit 80%"
This is an actual invoice I happen to have in front of me. You see that even before my plan kicked in I got a 45% discount. The high fees are partially there to demonstrate value of a plan even before it pays anything though. However, those with out a plan would be paying $100 and there would be no cap
Having said that, if you go to the chemist to pick up asprin and the plan charge is $20 there is a chance the none plan charge is $5. So, just pay the $5.
The system is far from perfect and demonstrates when you give a choice people do not always make good ones.
In the UK you have one insurance provider that you have to pay for fully comp insurance. The money comes straight out of your wage.
In the US, there are many providers and you have the choice to decide on which one and the level of coverage. If you are young and single you are likely to go the equivalent of 3rd party and take on the risk. Being old, or having young kids you will go for the full coverage. But, for both options, high/low risk, there is a cap for how much money you will be out of pocket for the year. The caps are often similar but how you get there is the key. I think for my family the cap is $13k for the year. To get to that point we would have to have had some seriously bad luck as it represents hundreds of thousands of healthcare costs. I am fortunate that I can survive if that happened. Most can't and that one reason there are many bankruptcies associated with health care.
Also, the high prices you often seen for drugs/procedures in the US are the pre-negotiated cost. On your invoice it will say
Limited oral evaluation.
"Fee Charged= $100" ,
"Negotiated Fee = $55".
"Plan benefit 80%"
This is an actual invoice I happen to have in front of me. You see that even before my plan kicked in I got a 45% discount. The high fees are partially there to demonstrate value of a plan even before it pays anything though. However, those with out a plan would be paying $100 and there would be no cap
Having said that, if you go to the chemist to pick up asprin and the plan charge is $20 there is a chance the none plan charge is $5. So, just pay the $5.
The system is far from perfect and demonstrates when you give a choice people do not always make good ones.
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