Shooting in Germany...

[Tryke3]

Just wondering why people here can't accept that they are full on racist ? You lot always preach just call it as it is, cant you **** do thay now?

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

DeepEnd said:

Do you remember when the AfD manifesto used to be defended as “OK” on here?

Which parts of their manifesto are you referring to here or is it the complete document? Would like to read to see exactly how crazy they are.

[bitchstewie]

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Which parts of their manifesto are you referring to here or is it the complete document? Would like to read to see exactly how crazy they are.

Can't speak for Deepend but on the Farage thread it came up because of his special guest appearance.

https://www.afd.de/wp-content/uploads/sites/111/20...

Start with section 7 and in particular the bits that single out Islam and Muslims for special treatment.

[DeepEnd]

bhstewie said:

Can't speak for Deepend but on the Farage thread it came up because of his special guest appearance.

https://www.afd.de/wp-content/uploads/sites/111/20...

Start with section 7 and in particular the bits that single out Islam and Muslims for special treatment.

.....and there were several section 7 defenders.

[Vanden Saab]

What has all this got to do with a nutter going on a shooting spree?

[bitchstewie]

Vanden Saab said:

What has all this got to do with a nutter going on a shooting spree?

Usually when someone does that sort of thing people look at what kind of things might have had any influence on them.

A far-right supporter has gone on a shooting spree in Germany.

A short while ago the German authorities arrested a bunch of far-right supporters who were planning terrorist attacks.

They appear to have a bit of a problem and it seems quite normal to look at any sort of influence right wing parties in Germany might be having on these people.

Some German politicians seem suitably concerned about the role the likes of the AfD might be playing in influencing these peoples thoughts.

[anonymous-user]

A political party having a mildly aligned concept of national identity to your own (far more extreme) version, which then achieves some electoral success, might lead some to feel it normalises their own views and emboldens them.

[Vanden Saab]

bhstewie said:

Vanden Saab said:

What has all this got to do with a nutter going on a shooting spree?

Usually when someone does that sort of thing people look at what kind of things might have had any influence on them.

A far-right supporter has gone on a shooting spree in Germany.

A short while ago the German authorities arrested a bunch of far-right supporters who were planning terrorist attacks.

They appear to have a bit of a problem and it seems quite normal to look at any sort of influence right wing parties in Germany might be having on these people.

Some German politicians seem suitably concerned about the role the likes of the AfD might be playing in influencing these peoples thoughts.

So by the same token we can blame all islamists for the actions of a few ISIS nutters? What about the millions of right wing people who do not go on shooting sprees is it their fault too? It seems a little unfair but I guess it depends which side of the fence you are on...

[JagLover]

janesmith1950 said:

A political party having a mildly aligned concept of national identity to your own (far more extreme) version, which then achieves some electoral success, might lead some to feel it normalises their own views and emboldens them.

So the solution is to have no political party that represents a large chunk of the electorate?, because that seems a great way to have political stability.

This all started when Merkel opened the floodgates. If we are looking back through the chain of blame you go back to there.

[anonymous-user]

JagLover said:

So the solution is to have no political party that represents a large chunk of the electorate?, because that seems a great way to have political stability.

That isn't what was said, or thought. It seems an illogical conclusion.

[BMW A6]

Vanden Saab, one does not have an issue with individuals jerking themselves or each other off in their Nazi uniforms. In their bedrooms. In privacy.

But if you intend to shoot, stab, kill & terrorize, then frankly these people need a bullet in the head, and fast.

[Piha]

JagLover said:

So the solution is to have no political party that represents a large chunk of the electorate?, because that seems a great way to have political stability.

This all started when Merkel opened the floodgates. If we are looking back through the chain of blame you go back to there.

Golly gosh, so it's all Merkel's fault that right wing politics emboldens terrorists to go on a shooting spree?

[bitchstewie]

Vanden Saab said:

So by the same token we can blame all islamists for the actions of a few ISIS nutters? What about the millions of right wing people who do not go on shooting sprees is it their fault too? It seems a little unfair but I guess it depends which side of the fence you are on...

Blame the people that did it.

But you have to look at what sort of thing might have emboldened them or reinforced their disgusting views.

I don't think that a political manifesto from a mainstream political party that specifically and explicitly singles out a religious group or race for special treatment is a good place to be.

[BMW A6]

JagLover said:

This all started when Merkel opened the floodgates. If we are looking back through the chain of blame you go back to there.

No. The blame lies with this right winger who decided to go on a shooting spree.

Who's happily dead now.

[JagLover]

BMW A6 said:

JagLover said:

This all started when Merkel opened the floodgates. If we are looking back through the chain of blame you go back to there.

No. The blame lies with this right winger who decided to go on a shooting spree.

Who's happily dead now.

I was responding to the previous poster who blamed the AFD for this. The AFD only grew as it has because of Merkel. The CDU abandoned many of its traditional supporters under her and that was a very dangerous thing to do in a country with the history of Germany. If traditional patriotic voters had a mainstream party they could vote for the AFD would have got nowhere.

[Vanden Saab]

bhstewie said:

Vanden Saab said:

So by the same token we can blame all islamists for the actions of a few ISIS nutters? What about the millions of right wing people who do not go on shooting sprees is it their fault too? It seems a little unfair but I guess it depends which side of the fence you are on...

Blame the people that did it.

But you have to look at what sort of thing might have emboldened them or reinforced their disgusting views.

I don't think that a political manifesto from a mainstream political party that specifically and explicitly singles out a religious group or race for special treatment is a good place to be.

No disagreement from me. Can you point out where in the AFD manifesto it says shoot the immigrants? And while you are at it can you point out where in the Koran it says kill non-believers. Blaming the AFD for the actions of a trigger happy nutter is the same stupid bullst that people are rightly called out for in the ISIS threads.

[anonymous-user]

Who blamed the AfD?

[bitchstewie]

Vanden Saab said:

No disagreement from me. Can you point out where in the AFD manifesto it says shoot the immigrants? And while you are at it can you point out where in the Koran it says kill non-believers. Blaming the AFD for the actions of a trigger happy nutter is the same stupid bullst that people are rightly called out for in the ISIS threads.

I haven't blamed the AfD.

What I have said is that if you publish a manifesto that singles out a particular religious group for special treatment it's sensible to ask if that sort of thing might embolden the odd nutter who then goes out and does this kind of thing.

The message from the AfD is pretty simple and it's "you don't like Muslims and neither do we so vote for us because we've got a section in our manifesto on how we'll treat them differently".

It's an ugly document and it fits into the wider discussion that seems to be going on in Germany about the issues they seem to be facing with that kind of thing.

[Vanden Saab]

bhstewie said:

Vanden Saab said:

No disagreement from me. Can you point out where in the AFD manifesto it says shoot the immigrants? And while you are at it can you point out where in the Koran it says kill non-believers. Blaming the AFD for the actions of a trigger happy nutter is the same stupid bullst that people are rightly called out for in the ISIS threads.

I haven't blamed the AfD.

What I have said is that if you publish a manifesto that singles out a particular religious group for special treatment it's sensible to ask if that sort of thing might embolden the odd nutter who then goes out and does this kind of thing.

The message from the AfD is pretty simple and it's "you don't like Muslims and neither do we so vote for us because we've got a section in our manifesto on how we'll treat them differently".

It's an ugly document and it fits into the wider discussion that seems to be going on in Germany about the issues they seem to be facing with that kind of thing.

Lets change that to the Koran or the bible... If you publish a book that says you are superior and other religions are 'non-believers' and should be treated differently does that make it an ugly document? You really do not get it do you. Trying to link it to Farage and the Brexit party is just the same as linking the Labour party to Muslims. You are blaming a large political party for the actions of a nutter and even linking it to a party in this country as well. If you did that to the Labour party suggesting they were responsible for the rise in ISIS attacks you would be rightly called out.

[bitchstewie]

Vanden Saab said:

Lets change that to the Koran or the bible... If you publish a book that says you are superior and other religions are 'non-believers' and should be treated differently does that make it an ugly document? You really do not get it do you. Trying to link it to Farage and the Brexit party is just the same as linking the Labour party to Muslims. You are blaming a large political party for the actions of a nutter and even linking it to a party in this country as well. If you did that to the Labour party suggesting they were responsible for the rise in ISIS attacks you would be rightly called out.

Most religious texts were written hundreds or thousands of years ago and I'm pretty sure that interpretations of all of them have varied over time for good and sadly for bad.

To me it feels obvious that isn't quite the same as a very clear and unambiguous discriminatory political manifesto written by a mainstream political party in 2017.

I pointed it out because the AfD are being mentioned as a contributor to the far-right issue in Germany.

The fact that the leader of a UK political party went to speak at one of their rallies seems like it's something worth mentioning assuming we don't want to see that kind of manifesto spreading over here.

Incidentally I think you'll find you're the first person to mention Brexit or the Brexit Party.