Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?

Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?

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Discussion

CambsBill

1,339 posts

142 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
OK, the books are open for who will be/should be the first to go, and will they jump or will they be pushed.

My starter for ten:

Fired - Jenny Fornby
Jump - Diane Abbott

Tyre Smoke

17,112 posts

225 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Abbott will need to be pushed. She is too stupid/stubborn to lift her head from the trough to see what's happening.

His Shadow Cabinet will say a lot about how effective he is going to be as Leader of the Opposition.

ou sont les biscuits

4,297 posts

159 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
Abbott will need to be pushed. She is too stupid/stubborn to lift her head from the trough to see what's happening.

His Shadow Cabinet will say a lot about how effective he is going to be as Leader of the Opposition.
She's on record as saying she would step down irrespective of who the new leader was. Has that changed recently?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/diane-ab...

Tyre Smoke

17,112 posts

225 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
ou sont les biscuits said:
She's on record as saying she would step down irrespective of who the new leader was. Has that changed recently?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/diane-ab...
No idea. But she's likely to make some U turn on that.

Teddy Lop

4,695 posts

31 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Sophisticated Sarah said:
I hope he can bring Labour back to the working classes (probably now considered middle classes) and away from the screeching and vile academic sorts.
one thing covid-19 has done is give people something more pressing to squabble about than some of the absurdity we were supposed to think important yesterday.

eccles

12,182 posts

186 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
unident said:
You say that, but the whole country is binary nowadays. You are either 100% with someone or 100% against them. Some of the threads on here show that very clearly.
I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Many died in wool Labour supporters voter Tory because there was not other palatable option. Much the same as Brexit, many remainers voted leave just to get the thing moving again.
We've not had a very good choice of politicians for the last few years, many have ducked away from stepping up to do a hard job and the ones we have left have been second rate so this has forced voters to vote for the least worse option instead of blindly voting along party lines.

Pan Pan Pan

7,671 posts

75 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Sophisticated Sarah said:
I hope he can bring Labour back to the working classes (probably now considered middle classes) and away from the screeching and vile academic sorts.
What does working class mean? It does not matter whether a person is the one who sweeps the shop floor, or the person who runs the company in the board room, they are both working for a living which technically means they are both working class
Has the labour party called themselves labour to trick the hard of thinking into believing they are the party for them, because they (just like most people ) do a days work?
At what point does one cease to be a worker, when a person works for their living?.
Ironically it seems that the labour party was not so much the party of the worker, but more the party of the shirker, who expect `stuff' to be handed to them on a plate (just like mummy and daddy did,when they were kids), and just want the government to be their substitute mummy and daddy.

Biker 1

5,222 posts

83 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
I watched a bit of Keir's interview on Sky News. His opening comments involved an apology for antisemitism, & how he was going to route out the 'poison' from the party. Will he really manage to do this? Will he manage to even tone down momentum a bit or shut up that tt Owen Jones??
Not holding my breath....

Hoofy

71,540 posts

246 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Simply, if he's extreme left then no.

Tyre Smoke

17,112 posts

225 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Hoofy said:
Simply, if he's extreme left then no.
He's not though. Starmer is more Blairite.

Teddy Lop

4,695 posts

31 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Pan Pan Pan said:
Sophisticated Sarah said:
I hope he can bring Labour back to the working classes (probably now considered middle classes) and away from the screeching and vile academic sorts.
What does working class mean? It does not matter whether a person is the one who sweeps the shop floor, or the person who runs the company in the board room, they are both working for a living which technically means they are both working class
Has the labour party called themselves labour to trick the hard of thinking into believing they are the party for them, because they (just like most people ) do a days work?
At what point does one cease to be a worker, when a person works for their living?.
Ironically it seems that the labour party was not so much the party of the worker, but more the party of the shirker, who expect `stuff' to be handed to them on a plate (just like mummy and daddy did,when they were kids), and just want the government to be their substitute mummy and daddy.
the core tenet of socialism is that it will free you from the oppressor. To do this it needs an oppressor, they tried for years to make it "capitalists have all your money and we'll fix it" but awkwardly the free market countries do a lot better for everyone than the socialist states. Doesn't stop them trying though. Always they work an angle and need a bogeyman, look at how much sheer effort they left put into demonizing the "right" rather than selling their own wonderful ideals.

What would a left without socialism look like?

Hoofy

71,540 posts

246 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
Hoofy said:
Simply, if he's extreme left then no.
He's not though. Starmer is more Blairite.
That's a relief!!

rfisher

4,465 posts

247 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Sure he can rofl

He's a remainer.

?Jew hater (he probably hasn't bothered with that one too much).

Charisma bypass.

Spineless.

Otherwise it's looking good comrades.

Pan Pan Pan

7,671 posts

75 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Sophisticated Sarah said:
I hope he can bring Labour back to the working classes (probably now considered middle classes) and away from the screeching and vile academic sorts.
What does working class mean? It does not matter whether a person is the one who sweeps the shop floor, or the person who runs the company in the board room, they are both working for a living which technically means they are both working class
Has the labour party called themselves labour to trick the hard of thinking into believing they are the party for them, because they (just like most people ) do a days work?
At what point does one cease to be a worker, when a person works for their living?.
Ironically it seems that the labour party was not so much the party of the worker, but more the party of the shirker, who expect `stuff' to be handed to them on a plate (just like mummy and daddy did,when they were kids), and just want the government to be their substitute mummy and daddy.
the core tenet of socialism is that it will free you from the oppressor. To do this it needs an oppressor, they tried for years to make it "capitalists have all your money and we'll fix it" but awkwardly the free market countries do a lot better for everyone than the socialist states. Doesn't stop them trying though. Always they work an angle and need a bogeyman, look at how much sheer effort they left put into demonizing the "right" rather than selling their own wonderful ideals.

What would a left without socialism look like?
Another core tenet for them seems to be what's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine. with the difference being `they' don't really want to work too hard for what they think they are `entitled' to.

biggbn

9,629 posts

184 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
the core tenet of socialism is that it will free you from the oppressor. To do this it needs an oppressor, they tried for years to make it "capitalists have all your money and we'll fix it" but awkwardly the free market countries do a lot better for everyone than the socialist states. Doesn't stop them trying though. Always they work an angle and need a bogeyman, look at how much sheer effort they left put into demonizing the "right" rather than selling their own wonderful ideals.

What would a left without socialism look like?
Perhaps ask the millions USA inc. has recently made unemployed if they feel as strongly about being looked after by their free market country? I think our country is a fantastic example of small c conservatism and a workable welfare state, but capitalism must be shackled lest it destroys this.

s2art

18,890 posts

217 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
the core tenet of socialism is that it will free you from the oppressor. To do this it needs an oppressor, they tried for years to make it "capitalists have all your money and we'll fix it" but awkwardly the free market countries do a lot better for everyone than the socialist states. Doesn't stop them trying though. Always they work an angle and need a bogeyman, look at how much sheer effort they left put into demonizing the "right" rather than selling their own wonderful ideals.

What would a left without socialism look like?
A bit like Switzerland .Or maybe Norway.

Teddy Lop

4,695 posts

31 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Perhaps ask the millions USA inc. has recently made unemployed if they feel as strongly about being looked after by their free market country? I think our country is a fantastic example of small c conservatism and a workable welfare state, but capitalism must be shackled lest it destroys this.
if the free market is their problem which socialist country do you think the millions would prefer to be right now?

what do you mean by capitalism must be "shackled"? Its an odd choice of word.


popegregory

977 posts

98 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
biggbn said:
Perhaps ask the millions USA inc. has recently made unemployed if they feel as strongly about being looked after by their free market country? I think our country is a fantastic example of small c conservatism and a workable welfare state, but capitalism must be shackled lest it destroys this.
if the free market is their problem which socialist country do you think the millions would prefer to be right now?

what do you mean by capitalism must be "shackled"? Its an odd choice of word.
I think it means you can be a billionaire once the country is paid for. Otherwise we can’t afford billionaires.

whoami

13,068 posts

204 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
Hoofy said:
Simply, if he's extreme left then no.
He's not though. Starmer is more Blairite.
He really isn’t.

popegregory

977 posts

98 months

Saturday 4th April 2020
quotequote all
whoami said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Hoofy said:
Simply, if he's extreme left then no.
He's not though. Starmer is more Blairite.
He really isn’t.
I think he will be, he’s just been careful with what he’s said to avoid getting clobbered by momentum