CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 5)

[markyb_lcy]

cymatty said:

Get your tear jar ready.

“I don’t feel like my brain is working the same anymore”

Says it all for me!

[Stay in Bed Instead]

cymatty said:

Get your tear jar ready.

Is there an advert with the people suffering from cancer and not being treated?

[markyb_lcy]

Boringvolvodriver said:

markyb_lcy said:

Sure, but they had their “local lockdown” from like June until the Tier 2?

This is all “lockdown” imo, just varying degrees of it.

The tier system makes no sense at all - nor does a circuit breaker p, fire break, or whatever else you want to call it.

Given where the “cases” are coming from, if you want to try and control the virus and help the NHS, then you need to shut schools and stop anybody visiting old people.

My wife has a view that all the vulnerable should be given the facts about the risk to them and then allow them to make a decision as to what to do. With the proviso that should they end up requiring hospital admissions, then they will only get a bed if there is room and then it will only be palliative care.

At the peak of the crisis, a friend of ours had the virus and sadly died. Despite numerous calls to 111, his wife had to go through a process over a few days before he could go to hospital. He eventually went to hospital and after less than 24 hours died - he was 75 with high blood pressure. He was clearly “filtered” or as it is called in medical terms triaged.

I would agree with most of this, however if we have capacity and resources we should provide more than just palliative care if the patient hasn’t signed a DNR.

I also think if we go down that route (which let’s face it, we won’t), then there should be a huge educational drive so that the healthier portion of the population can take simple preventative (but not legally enforced) measures to protect the vulnerable as much as possible.

[V1nce Fox]

markyb_lcy said:

Taylor James said:

I'm convinced the whole country will be tier 3 by Christmas and that effectively a national lockdown will be in place. It won't be called that though. It will be something like 'a temporary isolation period'.

This is where my money is.

divide and conquer.

[anonymous-user]

Boringvolvodriver said:

My wife has a view that all the vulnerable should be given the facts about the risk to them and then allow them to make a decision.

I was told to shield back in April, I should have stayed in for 3 months as some did I didn't I just took precautions.

If I got it and died I wouldn't blame anyone, I was vulnerable before and will be probably most of my life. We all have to face the facts we aren't infallible and we die,death is the natural order.

[Jasandjules]

pussinboots said:

If everyone wore masks and practised a bit of social distancing and good hygiene, then life could continue as normal. We don't need a full lockdown. I'm not sure why so many people refuse to wear one. We don't need concrete proof of their effectiveness. Wearing a mask is only a very mild inconvenience.

Or we can just go back to normal now and allow the vulnerable to shield. You know, play the numbers game and not destroy our entire economy. Actually be humans instead of mindless drones.

Oh, and I damn well want concrete proof that something works when it is a legal requirement to wear one on penalty of criminal actions. Yet we have clear proof it does not. I tell you what, rather than my wearing one, how about your wear two instead for the same level of "protection"

[WinstonWolf]

EddieSteadyGo said:

markyb_lcy said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

markyb_lcy said:

WinstonWolf said:

Lockdown has been experimented with for three months in Leicester and it hasn't worked. It won't work nationally either...

Indeed, but maybe we need to do it again just so people can see that. Apparently it failing once wasn’t enough.

Until public mood about these measures moves significantly, we will be stuck with them.

But Leicester doesn't have a lockdown. They have in Tier 2 according to the council's website:

https://www.leicester.gov.uk/your-council/coronavi...

Sure, but they had their “local lockdown” from like June until the Tier 2?

This is all “lockdown” imo, just varying degrees of it.

TBH I'm not sure of the history of their local rules as I haven't followed it that carefully. Personally though, I don't think "Tier 2" can be fairly called a lockdown.

Can Tier 2 be claimed to work?

If it isn't working why keep doing it?

[markyb_lcy]

WinstonWolf said:

Can Tier 2 be claimed to work?

If it isn't working why keep doing it?

“Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.”

(Usually attributed to Albert Einstein but debatable as to if he actually said it).

[EddieSteadyGo]

WinstonWolf said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

markyb_lcy said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

markyb_lcy said:

WinstonWolf said:

Lockdown has been experimented with for three months in Leicester and it hasn't worked. It won't work nationally either...

Indeed, but maybe we need to do it again just so people can see that. Apparently it failing once wasn’t enough.

Until public mood about these measures moves significantly, we will be stuck with them.

But Leicester doesn't have a lockdown. They have in Tier 2 according to the council's website:

https://www.leicester.gov.uk/your-council/coronavi...

Sure, but they had their “local lockdown” from like June until the Tier 2?

This is all “lockdown” imo, just varying degrees of it.

TBH I'm not sure of the history of their local rules as I haven't followed it that carefully. Personally though, I don't think "Tier 2" can be fairly called a lockdown.

Can Tier 2 be claimed to work?

If it isn't working why keep doing it?

Politics.

Boris can't just go straight for a lockdown again - I honestly think if he tried at the moment, he would be removed from office.

So everyone knows Tier 2 does very little. And Tier 3 isn't likely to be that much better. But unless he goes through the motions and we clearly are going to exceed hospital capacity, he won't get a lockdown past his backbenchers.

So between now and then, we have to go through the charade of these tiers.

[worsy]

Confirmed Scotland has gone all Spinal Tap on the Tiers.

[Saweep]

CABC said:

Twinfan said:

pussinboots said:

I think it's very much cultural. If you look at the East Asian countries, wearing masks is much more prevalent. Although difficult to prove any causal link, the Asian countries are doing far better in controlling the virus than the West. These countries are much more densely populated and have not instituted the kind of lockdowns to the same extent as here. They have not made mask wearing mandatory because they don't need to - it's become a social norm. To me it's just common sense that wearing masks may help reduce infection rates, and at worst does very little. The alternatives are either harsh lockdowns, or large number of deaths. I think the choice is clear?

Another view is that the Asian countries have been exposed to more similar viruses in the past therefore they have a level of immunity already.

So under that theory, it has cock all to do with masks.

i can believe that masks stop infected people spreading the disease, to a degree. However, there's a lot more to low mortality in places like Vietnam (is it 6?) than masks. too many people jumping to hard conclusions way too early. media could investigate causality a bit more, at least to open the discussion.

I've mentioned this before on here but I was in Thailand during January and most of Feb. Obviously everyone was aware of what was happening in China but 100,000 Chinese were still landing in Phuket every week well into Feb.

Anyone who's ever been to Thailand will know that nothing really happens how it should and as a result, other than room service people wearing masks, nothing was any different at all.

Yet nothing has really happened there according to the figures.

How can this be? How can a super R, super death virus have just skipped Thailand, one of the main holiday destinations for China?

Well, for the first few months after they shut their borders people had to pay for their own tests if they wanted one. Not many Thais on £300pcm could do that obviously.

The rainy season was coming in Spring and everyone is sick in Thailand at that time of year as the climate changes. Everyone has a cough, everyone feels rough.

I reckon that they just didn't actually notice the virus at all. And weren't really making a huge effort to look for it.

They're totally screwed now though for different reasons.

[WinstonWolf]

markyb_lcy said:

WinstonWolf said:

Can Tier 2 be claimed to work?

If it isn't working why keep doing it?

“Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.”

(Usually attributed to Albert Einstein but debatable as to if he actually said it).

Agree on both

If a government follow a course of action that's demonstrably insane how do we get rid of them?

[Darth Paul]

The Spruce Goose said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

My wife has a view that all the vulnerable should be given the facts about the risk to them and then allow them to make a decision.

I was told to shield back in April, I should have stayed in for 3 months as some did I didn't I just took precautions.

If I got it and died I wouldn't blame anyone, I was vulnerable before and will be probably most of my life. We all have to face the facts we aren't infallible and we die,death is the natural order.

My old man was the same, although he didn’t get the text to shield until early May I think! He was self employed (finally retired few months back) and has never missed a day of work, even when he came off his bike on diesel and broke his ribs and thumb or when he was in a&e till 3am, he was still back out at 5am. He knew the risks, so kept his distance from people as much as possible and wore a mask when going into premises. Even went 21st century and got some customers to pay bacs so as to avoid handling cash!
The positives I’ve taken from the early days of all this was how so many companies adapted to the rapid change. A lot of local breweries round here started doing takeaways and delivery’s. Shops did the same. And at the start lots of people were looking out for each other and helping out. There was a lot the classic British resolve to make the best of bad situation and get on with it any which way. Unfortunately that can only take you so far and I think we’ve all been pushed too far now

[MDMetal]

Zoobeef said:

Theyve just made masks compulsory at my work, 12 hours a day in a hot environment.
They have 10 thousand disposable ones so I think we can burn through that pretty quick if you're supposed to bin it after touching it.

If it's like our place no doubt a board level decision because other companies have imposed it. We let staff decide if they want to be in the office or not and if they want to wear masks in the office or not, as such nobody has complained or said they felt unsafe yet obviously "we could do more"

[Pupbelly]

I don't recall seeing a reply to a previously asked question but.....Where does all of the money go that is being given to these councils under the Covid Tier 2/3 payouts?

Are they accountable? i.e. the council has to demonstrate where the the money has / is being spent or does it just prop up general council spending and dissolves?

[isaldiri]

markyb_lcy said:

Sure, but they had their “local lockdown” from like June until the Tier 2?

This is all “lockdown” imo, just varying degrees of it.

Lockdown should mean you have a stay at home order with exemption to exercise buy food etc. Even tier3 now merely means pubs and such are shut. It quite clearly isn't 'lockdown' as per spring.

[markyb_lcy]

WinstonWolf said:

markyb_lcy said:

WinstonWolf said:

Can Tier 2 be claimed to work?

If it isn't working why keep doing it?

“Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.”

(Usually attributed to Albert Einstein but debatable as to if he actually said it).

Agree on both

If a government follow a course of action that's demonstrably insane how do we get rid of them?

Good question. The current opposition aren’t helping much. They can’t even bring themselves to vote against ridiculous evidence-lacking measures such as the 10pm curfew.

Honestly I don’t see an answer, I think we are stuck with them until the next GE, when if this is is still going on, we’ll have the wonderful opportunity to elect some people with different coloured rosettes who by then will have backed themselves into a corner where they can only do more-or-less the same.

We are properly fked until either the vaccine comes along, or a degree of immunity is reached that the numbers can be painted as business-as-usual.

[markyb_lcy]

isaldiri said:

markyb_lcy said:

Sure, but they had their “local lockdown” from like June until the Tier 2?

This is all “lockdown” imo, just varying degrees of it.

Lockdown should mean you have a stay at home order with exemption to exercise buy food etc. Even tier3 now merely means pubs and such are shut. It quite clearly isn't 'lockdown' as per spring.

Tier 3 does have a “stay at home as much as possible” guidance, but it doesn’t afaik require you to have a reasonable excuse to be outside the place where you are living (as in April).

The “local lockdowns” have been called such, but I don’t believe they had this legally enforceable stipulation either.

It’s a bit of a minefield defining what “lockdown” means imo.

[croyde]

I don't listen to radio or watch news these days, but I work for a foreign news channel so am forced to watch it on my shift days.

I agree with so much said on here and myself, vulnerable due to heart issues, still travel to work but using my car or motorbike, go out and about but avoid touching stuff, wash hands etc.

Much as I have led my life before as I hate catching colds and coughs.

What really concerns me is that every country on the planet is running scared with constant talk of rising cases, I stress cases, and various different lockdowns and restrictions.

Madrid about to go back into lockdown, Ireland in lockdown, France with all sorts of restrictions, Belgium, as announced on my news last night, having a night time curfew, the first since WW2, and so and so on.

Why are they all running scared and making these big economy shattering decisions that are also destroying people's health and wellbeing?

[isaldiri]

markyb_lcy said:

Tier 3 does have a “stay at home as much as possible” guidance, but it doesn’t afaik require you to have a reasonable excuse to be outside the place where you are living (as in April).

The “local lockdowns” have been called such, but I don’t believe they had this legally enforceable stipulation either.

It’s a bit of a minefield defining what “lockdown” means imo.

I don't think there is the stay at home thing tbh in tier3. At least in England. There's some blurb about working from home and minimising travel outside the area to keep all the plague ridden together but nothing that outright stays stay at home as much as possible afaik.