46th President of the United States, Joe Biden

46th President of the United States, Joe Biden

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Discussion

paulguitar

10,996 posts

77 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Disagreeing with the thread consensus is arguing?

All I argue for is judging all politicians by the same standards, rather than a stream of partisan and often irrelevant content.
I wasn't aiming that directly at you.

I do think there are certain posters here who just want to argue all of the time. We also have some 'drop and run' types who say something inaccurate, get educated by someone with more understanding, but don't come back until way later when they start from scratch with a new bit of nonsense. On this one I will name names:

Saab.




RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat

11,712 posts

59 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Fair play. smile

JeffreyD

2,190 posts

4 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
HM-2 said:
I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt but it's becoming increasingly clear that Ronald, along with another couple of regular contributors, have no interest in discussing in good faith.
The bit I find wearing is how they simply cannot accept that some of the stuff Trump did was off the charts and equate that to this president failing to deliver a pledge within a couple of months of office.

We had Trump and "lock her up, lock her up", backing Putin over his security forces, paying of a Porn star, having several of his close team imprisoned, and his support for an insurrection and certain posters expect the same level of criticism at a President as he has failed to navigate a split congress for a bill , was a bit weak on China in an informal discussion and forgot to wear his mask.


It's just all so transparent and I'm sorry I every engaged wit them.

That's before you get to the "stop the steal" loons who think is evidence of a mass fraud is everywhere.

Edit: It's entirely reasonable to judge Trump by a different set of standards.

purplepenguin

1,242 posts

151 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
JeffreyD said:
HM-2 said:
I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt but it's becoming increasingly clear that Ronald, along with another couple of regular contributors, have no interest in discussing in good faith.
The bit I find wearing is how they simply cannot accept that some of the stuff Trump did was off the charts and equate that to this president failing to deliver a pledge within a couple of months of office.

We had Trump and "lock her up, lock her up", backing Putin over his security forces, paying of a Porn star, having several of his close team imprisoned, and his support for an insurrection and certain posters expect the same level of criticism at a President as he has failed to navigate a split congress for a bill , was a bit weak on China in an informal discussion and forgot to wear his mask.


It's just all so transparent and I'm sorry I every engaged wit them.

That's before you get to the "stop the steal" loons who think is evidence of a mass fraud is everywhere.

Edit: It's entirely reasonable to judge Trump by a different set of standards.
Surely you judge all people by a set of “standards” otherwise they are not “standards”?

JeffreyD

2,190 posts

4 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
purplepenguin said:
Surely you judge all people by a set of “standards” otherwise they are not “standards”?
You don't judge Trump supporting posters by the same standards as those you see as pro-biden (I am anti-Trump not pro-Biden)

No need for any following questions.

purplepenguin

1,242 posts

151 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
JeffreyD said:
purplepenguin said:
Surely you judge all people by a set of “standards” otherwise they are not “standards”?
You don't judge Trump supporting posters by the same standards as those you see as pro-biden (I am anti-Trump not pro-Biden)

No need for any following questions.
It was a general statement

No need for any answers wink

hidetheelephants

16,952 posts

157 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
hidetheelephants said:
We should criticise Biden because of states's rights? This is desperate stuff.
What you shouldn't do is double dip; criticise the previous President for failing to do things, when the new one can't do them either. Or. Credit the current President for things he didn't control when you failed to praise the old one in the same way.

The double standards employed on this and other threads are there for all to see.

If Biden can't be criticised for the death rate because he doesn't control what individual states do, then neither should Trump. If Biden is praised for the falling death rate, then so should Trump, as the lag between cause and effect means the results we're seeing now were influenced largely under his watch.
Trump; PPE policy was "lord of the flies", testing was down to the states with no federal help, encouragement or coordination, in the face of basic epidemiological advice discouraged mask wearing, distancing, etc while running political rallies indoor and out. Magical thinking along the lines of "It will go away" despite Woodward's tapes of him acknowledging the seriousness of the situation, encouraging states to open up contrary to CDC and NIH advice.
Biden; the opposite of all that. You know, leadership tempered with scientific advice. He's sorely lacking in rage-tweets and golfing expeditions though, his handicap must be terrible.

RiseUp

112 posts

16 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
If you look at the death rate chart Florida has shanked it badly; their death rate in the Thanksgiving/Christmas peak is huge, their performance is terrible; NY has held the death rate down. This article is rubbish.
Huge you say? As in never topping 300 a day?

Florida is ranked 27th out of 50 states for deaths per million, how exactly is that a shank? Considering they've had absolutely minimal lock down, I'd say that's a remarkable performance for numbers. They have the 3rd highest population.

I saw a chart earlier showing the deaths per million on states that locked down vs no lock down and guess what... They were within 50 of each other.

gumshoe

666 posts

169 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
RiseUp said:
hidetheelephants said:
If you look at the death rate chart Florida has shanked it badly; their death rate in the Thanksgiving/Christmas peak is huge, their performance is terrible; NY has held the death rate down. This article is rubbish.
Huge you say? As in never topping 300 a day?

Florida is ranked 27th out of 50 states for deaths per million, how exactly is that a shank? Considering they've had absolutely minimal lock down, I'd say that's a remarkable performance for numbers. They have the 3rd highest population.

I saw a chart earlier showing the deaths per million on states that locked down vs no lock down and guess what... They were within 50 of each other.
Florida has THE biggest concentration of over 65 years olds of all the US states in its population (relevant to deaths per million).

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/FL

California has a smaller percentage of over 65s but more of them. Which isn't relevant to deaths per capita.

Byker28i

33,912 posts

181 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
HM-2 said:
I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt but it's becoming increasingly clear that Ronald, along with another couple of regular contributors, have no interest in discussing in good faith.
Same here, in fact look at my response yesterday to the question asked about Florida, I'm always up for a discussion. But it gets tiring when the same person is just trying to score points, ignores discussions, accuses people of trolling when they are...

Best thing in the end is just to ignore them, they just want attention

Byker28i

33,912 posts

181 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
gumshoe said:
RiseUp said:
hidetheelephants said:
If you look at the death rate chart Florida has shanked it badly; their death rate in the Thanksgiving/Christmas peak is huge, their performance is terrible; NY has held the death rate down. This article is rubbish.
Huge you say? As in never topping 300 a day?

Florida is ranked 27th out of 50 states for deaths per million, how exactly is that a shank? Considering they've had absolutely minimal lock down, I'd say that's a remarkable performance for numbers. They have the 3rd highest population.

I saw a chart earlier showing the deaths per million on states that locked down vs no lock down and guess what... They were within 50 of each other.
Florida has THE biggest concentration of over 65 years olds of all the US states in its population (relevant to deaths per million).

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/FL

California has a smaller percentage of over 65s but more of them. Which isn't relevant to deaths per capita.
See my response yesterday. Floridas governor DeSantis was accused by a whistleblower of halving the figures, then she was sacked, subjected to police raids etc.

They are hardly a state to hold up, at one time the third highest state for cases. Not sure where the 300 comes from, deaths? Last july:

Florida on Sunday reported the highest single-day total of new coronavirus cases by any state since the start of the pandemic, with more than 15,000 new infections, eclipsing the previous high of 12,274 recorded in New York on April 4 amid the worst of its outbreak.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/12/us/florida-coro...

Early on they opened beaches, opened eating out which caused their spike in numbers.


Even now
Florida COVID update for Wednesday: Miami positivity rate doubles in a day to top 10%

6,014 new Florida coronavirus cases reported Wednesday; 132 new deaths
The Florida Department of Health says the number of known cases of COVID-19 in the state rose by 6,014 Wednesday. According to the state's daily update, the total number of cases in Florida is now 1,924,114.

The number of Florida resident deaths has reached 31,267, an increase of 132 since Tuesday's update. In addition, a total of 562 non-Floridians have died in the state.
https://www.fox13news.com/news/6014-new-florida-co...
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/artic...



Remember Florida stopped reporting their numbers
The state is not reporting a total number of "recovered" coronavirus patients. As of Wednesday, the number of Floridians currently hospitalized for a primary diagnosis of COVID-19 was 3,597, with the state reporting a total of 80,024 hospitalized for treatment at some point.


Again, mostly explained in yesterdays post, rural vs cities, For political reasons we had team trump trying to fudge the figures, stop the reporting from CDC, Republican governors doing the same and now reports that Cuomo did the same in NY for some figures.

So as with all stats, we don't know we actually have the fuller picture, but holding Florida up as a positive example really isn't the answer.

Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 4th March 07:43

Noodle1982

2,103 posts

70 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Not even 2 months into his presidency and Biden is breaking records.....

43 days in office, and counting, and not a single press conference.



Byker28i

33,912 posts

181 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Noodle1982 said:
Not even 2 months into his presidency and Biden is breaking records.....

43 days in office, and counting, and not a single press conference.
yup - I saw Fox was pushing that last night. Have they got bored of claiming Biden was cancelling Dr Zeus? By the way Fox was pushing for Dr Jill Biden to drop her Dr title (which she earnt) but not Dr Zeus (made up)... your thoughts on that?

How long did trump not hold press conferences for and pushed out his spokesperson. Was it ok then?

Byker28i

33,912 posts

181 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Meanwhile, the House just passed H.R. 1, the sweeping voting rights and ethics reform bill. The vote was 220-210. Not a single Republican voted in favor of the bill.

H.R. 1, the "For the People Act':

Overhauls government ethics and campaign finance laws
Creates automatic voter registration
Expands access to early and absentee voting
Curtails the influence of big money in politics
Curbs partisan gerrymandering

We can see why the GOP don't want that...Fair elections, follow ethics biggrin

edit: Sen. Amy Klobuchar announces that there'll be a hearing on March 24 for the Senate's version of H.R. 1, the For the People Act.

Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 4th March 07:50

Byker28i

33,912 posts

181 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Republican Tom Cotton admitted yesterday that he's holding up Merrick Garland's nomination to be Biden's attorney general

Byker28i

33,912 posts

181 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
The House has just passed the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act, 220-212. Just one Republican supported the bill, who said afterwards he supported the bill by mistake.

The George Floyd Justice in Policing Act:

Overhauls qualified immunity for police officers
Bans chokeholds at the federal level
Prohibits no-knock warrants in federal drug cases
Outlaws racial profiling
Establish a national registry of police misconduct to be managed by DOJ

Vanden Saab

8,178 posts

38 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Disagreeing with the thread consensus is arguing?

All I argue for is judging all politicians by the same standards, rather than a stream of partisan and often irrelevant content.
I wasn't aiming that directly at you.

I do think there are certain posters here who just want to argue all of the time. We also have some 'drop and run' types who say something inaccurate, get educated by someone with more understanding, but don't come back until way later when they start from scratch with a new bit of nonsense. On this one I will name names:

Saab.
It would be nice to have somewhere to discuss Bidens failings as well as his success but as this is impossible here as it can only be he didn't do it or Trump was worse, I will leave you to your fawning echo chamber.

beer

Byker28i

33,912 posts

181 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Vanden Saab said:
It would be nice to have somewhere to discuss Bidens failings as well as his success but as this is impossible here as it can only be he didn't do it or Trump was worse, I will leave you to your fawning echo chamber.

beer
Actually, I discussed his failure to inform the senate yesterday of his airstrike, but so far he doesn't appear to be doing much wrong, hence Fox's desperate attempt to say his old dog isn't presidential enough, that he hasn't held a press conference (despite trump going years without one)...


Byker28i

33,912 posts

181 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Speaking of HR1 and ethics...

McConnells wife...

While serving as transportation secretary during the Trump administration, Elaine Chao repeatedly used her office staff to help family members who run a shipping business with extensive ties to China, a report released Wednesday by the Transportation Department’s inspector general concluded.

The inspector general referred the matter to the Justice Department in December for possible criminal investigation. But in the weeks before the end of Trump administration, two Justice Department divisions declined to do so.

Ms. Chao, the wife of Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, announced her resignation on Jan. 7, the day after the Capitol riot. At the time of her departure, an aide to Ms. Chao said her resignation was unrelated to the inspector general’s investigation
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/us/politics/ela...

Byker28i

33,912 posts

181 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
hidetheelephants said:
We should criticise Biden because of states's rights? This is desperate stuff.
What you shouldn't do is double dip; criticise the previous President for failing to do things, when the new one can't do them either. Or. Credit the current President for things he didn't control when you failed to praise the old one in the same way.

The double standards employed on this and other threads are there for all to see.

If Biden can't be criticised for the death rate because he doesn't control what individual states do, then neither should Trump. If Biden is praised for the falling death rate, then so should Trump, as the lag between cause and effect means the results we're seeing now were influenced largely under his watch.
Trump; PPE policy was "lord of the flies", testing was down to the states with no federal help, encouragement or coordination, in the face of basic epidemiological advice discouraged mask wearing, distancing, etc while running political rallies indoor and out. Magical thinking along the lines of "It will go away" despite Woodward's tapes of him acknowledging the seriousness of the situation, encouraging states to open up contrary to CDC and NIH advice.
Biden; the opposite of all that. You know, leadership tempered with scientific advice. He's sorely lacking in rage-tweets and golfing expeditions though, his handicap must be terrible.
The Trump administration quietly took around $10 billion from a fund meant to help hospitals and health care providers affected by Covid-19 and used the money to bankroll Operation Warp Speed contracts, four former Trump administration officials told STAT.

The Department of Health and Human Services appears to have used a financial maneuver that allowed officials to spend the money without telling Congress, and the agency got permission from its top lawyer to do so. Now, the Biden administration is refusing to say whether the outlay means there will be less money available for hospitals, physicians, nursing homes, and other providers.

Several provider groups said they had not heard that $10 billion for providers was spent on Warp Speed contracts until STAT’s reporting. Congress set aside that money to help health care providers pay for pandemic-related expenses including staffing, personal protective equipment, care for uninsured patients, and vaccine distribution. One of the top hospital lobbyists in D.C., who also did not know about the outlay, emphasized how much some hospitals still need the funding.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/03/02/trump-administ...

I guess a positive is that it wasn't robbed to fund his vanity wall...