Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)

Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)

Author
Discussion

roger.mellie

1,209 posts

16 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
JeffreyD said:
I posted it in here as Sunak specifically mentioned it as a Brexit benefit.

At the moment I've only read a load of remain types saying "we could always do them" or some full on rants about deregulation, lower employment standards and a gateway to organised crime and the Russian Mafia.
Do the Russians not prefer their pads in Knightsbridge or Kensington or whatever? smile

The doomsayers can’t have it both ways. Freeport’s can’t be both a doom laden policy for workers rights and something of insignificance. There are apparently some interesting gotchas w.r.t the NI GFA as any legislation affecting human rights could find itself in conflict with the agreement. Yet again that just smacks to me of a government not on top of their brief.

andymadmak

12,466 posts

234 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Iminquarantine said:
Yawn. I said in my post it was an opinion piece. It is published on the LSE website. It has a copyright notice at the bottom of the page, for LSE. There have been newspaper opinion pieces published by Brexstters right here, but I haven’t responded with what is frankly a monumentally thick comment of “oh that’s not an Express/Sun/Mail opinion, it’s only an editorial reflecting the opinion of the author” and this criticism if from someone who regularly posts paragraphs in which individual sentences make sense, but the whole is just meaningless waffle.

Since you want to descend to level of Brexit-tardfest-minus 50, your post has several punctuation errors including missing quotes and a missing comma. Therefore it is garbage.
Who were you before your last ban?

stongle

4,089 posts

126 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Iminquarantine said:
Yawn. I said in my post it was an opinion piece
No, I quoted you. You said an LSE opinion piece. It wasn't. There is a simple reason most of us don't post opinion pieces, because they are just that - opinion. Strangely your or my opinion is just (or in some cases more), valid than what someone blogs. There was a pro-Brexit piece in The Independent a day or so go. No one in support of Brexit was dumb enough to post it. You, and others simply drag the debate down time again; through basic comprehension fail. And the LSE guy really only opined on regulation setting (lots of more credible people have published opinions to the opposite- or value of EC regulatory policy).

The only good thing, I suppose: its one up on the usual LBC drivel posted.

Oh, and you really have lost the intellectual debate when you moan about missing quotation marks.

I notice our remain business titans didn't comment on GBP and FTSE gains (pre Budget). Totally counter to the normal posted narrative. "Lalalalalalalala" (is that better sweetie?)....



Edited by stongle on Wednesday 3rd March 23:32

jsf

22,332 posts

200 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Iminquarantine said:
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Edited by Iminquarantine on Wednesday 3rd March 11:33
laughsillyloser

jsf

22,332 posts

200 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Tryke3 said:
I will say it again, the EU is being led by experts
Give over, the EU is the last working home of the failed politician to top up their pension fund. They certainly don't look like experts based on their handling of the Covid crisis, migration from North Africa and the Middle East crisis and the issues in Crimea. It doesn't matter how far back you go, they always screw up anything that needs more thought than ticking a box.

roger.mellie

1,209 posts

16 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
roger.mellie said:
It is politics, but is it good politics?

Sometimes you’re overkeen to defend the government when there’s really no need.

In all likelihood it’ll be a storm in a teacup but it won’t be one our politicians come out of with flying colours and as suggested by Iminquarantine you can’t ignore that other nations will be looking on. Unforced errors are not something to be defended regardless of your opinion on the policy.
Replying to myself but, well, that escalated quickly smilehttps://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail...

Watched Tony Connelly on the news earlier tonight reporting on it. It doesn’t look like the EU are going to turn a blind eye on this. He made a good but separate point on how the UK no longer has the luxury of a dedicated point man to negotiate with that can claim to represent all EU opinion (my paraphrasing) and now any member state can create trouble.

Not sure I share the confidence of some here that Frost is the right man for the job. Who am I kidding, I don’t in the slightest think he is.

London424

12,175 posts

139 months

Tryke3

1,609 posts

58 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
jsf said:
Give over, the EU is the last working home of the failed politician to top up their pension fund. They certainly don't look like experts based on their handling of the Covid crisis, migration from North Africa and the Middle East crisis and the issues in Crimea. It doesn't matter how far back you go, they always screw up anything that needs more thought than ticking a box.
Perhaps the daily mail comment boards are more suitable for your intellect

jsf

22,332 posts

200 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Tryke3 said:
jsf said:
Give over, the EU is the last working home of the failed politician to top up their pension fund. They certainly don't look like experts based on their handling of the Covid crisis, migration from North Africa and the Middle East crisis and the issues in Crimea. It doesn't matter how far back you go, they always screw up anything that needs more thought than ticking a box.
Perhaps the daily mail comment boards are more suitable for your intellect
Post a factual counter to it, rather than a crap response like that.

jsf

22,332 posts

200 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
roger.mellie said:
Replying to myself but, well, that escalated quickly smilehttps://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail...

Watched Tony Connelly on the news earlier tonight reporting on it. It doesn’t look like the EU are going to turn a blind eye on this. He made a good but separate point on how the UK no longer has the luxury of a dedicated point man to negotiate with that can claim to represent all EU opinion (my paraphrasing) and now any member state can create trouble.

Not sure I share the confidence of some here that Frost is the right man for the job. Who am I kidding, I don’t in the slightest think he is.
No press release since the evening call from the EU.

Based on the subsequent release by Frost, it appears UK informed EU this was coming a few days ago and before the statement in Parliament today and subsequent evening call.

I suspect we are going to see a far more robust protection for NI-GB trade from Frost than we saw with Gove. So long as he follows the processes available within the protocol that's a good thing.

I find the releases quite business like, with Frost highlighting it was the EU that broke the protocol and that the protocol is supposed to protect trade between GB-NI and to serve the people of NI, not cause them problems.

It will be interesting to see if Frost has followed the procedures in the protocol, there is certainly flexibility in there to allow temporary measures to protect trade flows in the UK SM.

stongle

4,089 posts

126 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
roger.mellie said:
Not sure I share the confidence of some here that Frost is the right man for the job. Who am I kidding, I don’t in the slightest think he is.
Do you think Frost is the problem or UK Government policy itself? I'm in no way an expert on NI (hence avoid chipping in with an ignorant comment); but does one man make that much difference? Particularly a UK politician / civil service mandarin? I'm excluding central bankers as they tend to be quite seperate by mandate and quite rate Carney). Its not a trick question, genuinely curious. I can't think of any political appointee I could point to and think "talented". I just have degrees of loathing. "Wouldn't piss on them if on fire" being the best it gets.

My view on him would be, he can only make it worse (than the directed policy); if he was douche or tt. Is he?

Tryke3

1,609 posts

58 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
jsf said:
Tryke3 said:
jsf said:
Give over, the EU is the last working home of the failed politician to top up their pension fund. They certainly don't look like experts based on their handling of the Covid crisis, migration from North Africa and the Middle East crisis and the issues in Crimea. It doesn't matter how far back you go, they always screw up anything that needs more thought than ticking a box.
Perhaps the daily mail comment boards are more suitable for your intellect
Post a factual counter to it, rather than a crap response like that.
Like history and reality ?


Edited by Tryke3 on Thursday 4th March 07:00

CaptainSlow

10,311 posts

176 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
Iminquarantine said:
Should do wonders for future trade deals, esp with the United States. Britain signs deal, decides it doesn’t like the terms of the deal, so unilaterally changes it.
It's the EU's fault.

Don't ask how just stick to the script.
The EU have been unilaterally changing the WA ever since they signed it.

roger.mellie

1,209 posts

16 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
stongle said:
roger.mellie said:
Not sure I share the confidence of some here that Frost is the right man for the job. Who am I kidding, I don’t in the slightest think he is.
Do you think Frost is the problem or UK Government policy itself? I'm in no way an expert on NI (hence avoid chipping in with an ignorant comment); but does one man make that much difference? Particularly a UK politician / civil service mandarin? I'm excluding central bankers as they tend to be quite seperate by mandate and quite rate Carney). Its not a trick question, genuinely curious. I can't think of any political appointee I could point to and think "talented". I just have degrees of loathing. "Wouldn't piss on them if on fire" being the best it gets.

My view on him would be, he can only make it worse (than the directed policy); if he was douche or tt. Is he?
Government policy, although it is about personalities too. I think Gove was starting to show some signs of doing a good job on it. I'm no fan of him but he was acknowledging issues, building a rapport with the EU and talking to NI politicians and business leaders. The letter on A16 was a blunder in my view but I suspect that had Frost's fingerprints on it.

By putting Frost in the role it's obvious the government want the relationship to be more confrontational. Maybe Gove was getting on a bit too well.

On the plus side, Frost obviously has a track record of negotiating with the EU, will know how their systems work and the EU will be familiar with him. That could also be minus if it means he's too attached to the deal he negotiated to allow flexibility. But as one of the main men involved in previous debacles like the IM Bill I've a low expectations of him and it does look like he's off to a similarly confrontational start.

jsf

22,332 posts

200 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Tryke3 said:
jsf said:
Tryke3 said:
jsf said:
Give over, the EU is the last working home of the failed politician to top up their pension fund. They certainly don't look like experts based on their handling of the Covid crisis, migration from North Africa and the Middle East crisis and the issues in Crimea. It doesn't matter how far back you go, they always screw up anything that needs more thought than ticking a box.
Perhaps the daily mail comment boards are more suitable for your intellect
Post a factual counter to it, rather than a crap response like that.
Like history and reality ?


Edited by Tryke3 on Thursday 4th March 07:00
Yes.

You think those areas i raised were and are a success?

DeepEnd

4,240 posts

30 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
roger.mellie said:
Government policy, although it is about personalities too. I think Gove was starting to show some signs of doing a good job on it. I'm no fan of him but he was acknowledging issues, building a rapport with the EU and talking to NI politicians and business leaders. The letter on A16 was a blunder in my view but I suspect that had Frost's fingerprints on it.

By putting Frost in the role it's obvious the government want the relationship to be more confrontational. Maybe Gove was getting on a bit too well.

On the plus side, Frost obviously has a track record of negotiating with the EU, will know how their systems work and the EU will be familiar with him. That could also be minus if it means he's too attached to the deal he negotiated to allow flexibility. But as one of the main men involved in previous debacles like the IM Bill I've a low expectations of him and it does look like he's off to a similarly confrontational start.
Agree with this - it is a sign in Frost’s statement to bring up A16 again - everyone knows that was an embarrassing EU cock up so to mention it again is deliberate and shows his willingness to antagonise, not seek a co-operative solution. This could be a sign that one actual objective of the govt is to keep tensions with the EU simmering as a vote winner (appealing to those who like to get wound up by DM etc.).



Someone mentioned the EU has been breaking their side of the WA? Are there specifics on this or is it fake news?

don'tbesilly

12,110 posts

127 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
London424 said:
So little more than temporary adjustments as opposed to the breaking of International law as dramatised by Šefčovič.

I guess Šefčovič has as yet not got used to Frost's no-nonsense approach and preferred the softly softly approach of Gove, it explains Frost's move to his current position which always made sense given his role as the UK's chief negotiator.

jsf

22,332 posts

200 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
DeepEnd said:
Agree with this - it is a sign in Frost’s statement to bring up A16 again - everyone knows that was an embarrassing EU cock up so to mention it again is deliberate and shows his willingness to antagonise, not seek a co-operative solution. This could be a sign that one actual objective of the govt is to keep tensions with the EU simmering as a vote winner (appealing to those who like to get wound up by DM etc.).



Someone mentioned the EU has been breaking their side of the WA? Are there specifics on this or is it fake news?
You do realise that Frosts press release was after the EU one and after the telephone conversation?

The EU press release came first and before the discussion, in that the EU prodded the hornets nest by raising the issue of breaking international law.

To date only the EU has broken international law, when they triggered article 16 without following procedures with the UK and Ireland, so it's entirely appropriate for Frost to mention that in response.

Crackie

5,208 posts

206 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Iminquarantine said:
Yawn. I said in my post it was an opinion piece. It is published on the LSE website.
Fair enough. Here are a couple more opinion pieces published on the LSE website smile ...........they are from the same article's comments section.



CaptainSlow

10,311 posts

176 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
DeepEnd said:
Someone mentioned the EU has been breaking their side of the WA? Are there specifics on this or is it fake news?
Are you open minded enough to accept it if true?